IFR departure from 06C

dans2992

dans2992

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Dans2992
Does anyone know if an IFR departure from 06C (Schaumburg, IL) is possible in IMC that would prevent you from departing VFR?

I know there's a GCO there, but given the proximity to O'Hare I'm not sure if it's practical to expect to depart IFR.

I am debating between 06C and PWK for my visit. 06C is closer to where I want to be...
 
Wait, say that first part again... Are you wanting to take off in IMC conditions with clearance already granted? Or depart VFR and pick up your clearance in the air?
 
There are no published instrument procedures at 06C, so if you're a commercial operator, you'd have to take off VFR and pick up your IFR airborne unless you have ops specs for that airport allowing otherwise.

As a private Part 91 operator, takeoff from an airport with no published instrument procedures is essentially on your own, at your own risk. ATC will happily give you a clearance that says something like "upon entering controlled airspace you are cleared...", but how you get from the runway to entering controlled airspace (including obstruction/terrain avoidance) is entirely your problem, and the FAA assumes no responsibility for anything that happens on the way. So, you have to look at the sectional/TAC chart, look around the area from the ramp, and see if you can figure a way to get from the surface up to 1500 AGL or so blind without hitting anything, i.e., roll your own ODP.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Wait, say that first part again... Are you wanting to take off in IMC conditions with clearance already granted? Or depart VFR and pick up your clearance in the air?
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I meant departing IFR when the weather does not permit departing VFR and picking up the clearance airborne.
 
Not 100% sure what you're asking,

If you're looking to get a clearence on the ground just call 1 (888) 766-8267 and get it on the ground :dunno:
 
Ron Levy said:
There are no published instrument procedures at 06C, so if you're a commercial operator, you'd have to take off VFR and pick up your IFR airborne unless you have ops specs for that airport allowing otherwise.

As a private Part 91 operator, takeoff from an airport with no published instrument procedures is essentially on your own, at your own risk. ATC will happily give you a clearance that says something like "upon entering controlled airspace you are cleared...", but how you get from the runway to entering controlled airspace (including obstruction/terrain avoidance) is entirely your problem, and the FAA assumes no responsibility for anything that happens on the way. So, you have to look at the sectional/TAC chart, look around the area from the ramp, and see if you can figure a way to get from the surface up to 1500 AGL or so blind without hitting anything, i.e., roll your own ODP.
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The area is flat as a pancake, so I don't have a problem with a "roll your own" departure.

While it may technically be possible, I'm just curious if ATC would actually permit it (with a reasonably prompt release time) given that 06C is under the ORD final approach path.
 
James331 said:
Not 100% sure what you're asking,



If you're looking to get a clearence on the ground just call 1 (888) 766-8267 and get it on the ground :dunno:
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Ok, but given the location of the field, I'm wondering if you'll need to "hold for release" until 2am due to ORD landing traffic.

I'm looking for someone with local knowledge.
 
dans2992 said:
While it may technically be possible, I'm just curious if ATC would actually permit it (with a reasonably prompt release time) given that 06C is under the ORD final approach path.
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I have no idea. You'd have to either ask a local pilot or someone at the FBO there, or call Chicago TRACON and ask them.
 
dans2992 said:
The area is flat as a pancake, so I don't have a problem with a "roll your own" departure.
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I'm local

There are some pretty big antenna towers nearby and they have big guy wire systems. Not entirely safe to be there without being up and into the bravo which is hard to do while VFR as Chi-App seldoms grants VFR into the bravo. Also you are right below an ORD approach. So working in a departure from 06C while there are ORD arrivals is also difficult.

Typically off of 06C is to depart VFR and pick up clearance west of DPA. Same thing during arrivals. Typically you are IFR until you shot an approach to DPA, cancel IFR and proceed VFR to 06C. So east of DPA you really need VFR. MVFR if you know the area and can avoid the steel-mist. Mostly people other than the helicopters stay on the ground during IFR periods.

The helos there are the local TV news choppers so they are handled a little differently with pre-arranged clearances into the bravo and other procedures to help with traffic reporting and such. But even in hard IFR they are on the ground.
 
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I took off out of Schaumburg MVFR. I called on the ground to Center(or approach, I can't remember) and asked for an IFR clearance on the ground. They probably would have given it to me but they were kind of busy and I got, "Can you take-off and just get your clearance from us in the air?" Which is what I did and it was pretty easy. Just picked it up in the air. Getting out of there will be easier than getting in. Coming in they had me do the ILS 2L at DuPage and when I broke out of the weather, I just cancelled IFR with tower and hopped over to Schaumburg. I would have a backup plan for DuPage or Executive just in case.
 
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I went to 'Pilot Pete's' the other day, nice place. Yes, there is a high tower NE of the field.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
I took off out of Schaumburg MVFR. I called on the ground to Center(or approach, I can't remember) and asked for an IFR clearance on the ground. They probably would have given it to me but they were kind of busy and I got, "Can you take-off and just get your clearance from us in the air?" Which is what I did and it was pretty easy. Just picked it up in the air. Getting out of there will be easier than getting in. Coming in they had me do the ILS 2L at DuPage and when I broke out of the weather, I just cancelled IFR with tower and hopped over to Schaumburg. I would have a backup plan for DuPage or Executive just in case.
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Thanks! Looking at the map, I think the drive from PWK is probably only a few minute longer than 06C, so I'm just going to plan on PWK.
 
06C IFR is a difficult thing to do. Our MVA in that area is 2,500. If ORD is landing west, then I can't ensure separation between you and ORD departures to the west. If ORD is landing east, no way. All arrivals are descending out of 3,000 for 2,200 over 06C.

VFR departure with IFR pickup is standard. Or use PWK/DPA if possible.
 
MarkZ said:
06C IFR is a difficult thing to do. Our MVA in that area is 2,500. If ORD is landing west, then I can't ensure separation between you and ORD departures to the west. If ORD is landing east, no way. All arrivals are descending out of 3,000 for 2,200 over 06C.

VFR departure with IFR pickup is standard. Or use PWK/DPA if possible.
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So what do you controllers do if the weather doesn't permit a safe VFR departure with IFR pickup airborne? Tell them they can't go?
 
Ron Levy said:
So what do you controllers do if the weather doesn't permit a safe VFR departure with IFR pickup airborne? Tell them they can't go?
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I think the answer is "yes", they cannot depart.

That's the whole reason I was asking. It would seem that you are trapped until the weather lifts.
 
Ron Levy said:
So what do you controllers do if the weather doesn't permit a safe VFR departure with IFR pickup airborne? Tell them they can't go?
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"We controllers," when feasible, use every ATC separation rule we can to help a get an IFR 06C departure out. It doesn't happen often. Again, we are assuming weather is below basic VFR minima here.

dans2992 said:
I think the answer is "yes", they cannot depart.

That's the whole reason I was asking. It would seem that you are trapped until the weather lifts.
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If the weather looks iffy, I'd suggest DPA or PWK.
 
I've only done it a few times, but coming out of 06C I filed from SIMMN and picked it up in the air. Each time it was VMC, so it was a non-issue.
 
dans2992 said:
I think the answer is "yes", they cannot depart.
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Apparently that is not true, but it also appears folks don't often ask to do it.
That's the whole reason I was asking. It would seem that you are trapped until the weather lifts.
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Based on what MarkZ wrote, that does not seem to be true. Difficult, perhaps, but not impossible, and the difficulty is more for the controllers than the pilot involved. Nevertheless, flying into DPA or PWK seems a better choice if you're not reasonably sure on arrival that you'll have good VFR weather for your departure.
 
MarkZ said:
"We controllers," when feasible, use every ATC separation rule we can to help a get an IFR 06C departure out. It doesn't happen often. Again, we are assuming weather is below basic VFR minima here.




If the weather looks iffy, I'd suggest DPA or PWK.
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Ok, so by "it doesn't happen often" do you mean few pilots actually attempt it, or you can't usually get them out? Is there typically a long wait for the pilot?
 
I mean we can't get them out IFR without shutting off ORD arrivals or departures for the time window needed for IFR release.
 
MarkZ said:
I mean we can't get them out IFR without shutting off ORD arrivals or departures for the time window needed for IFR release.
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I figured thats why they wanted me to get it in the air. Is it easier in the air because you have positive radar ID on the airplane already when they are asking for it in the air?
 
MarkZ said:
I mean we can't get them out IFR without shutting off ORD arrivals or departures for the time window needed for IFR release.
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Does this actually happen, or is the 06C pilot usually just SOL?

Just curious more than anything.
 
I fly out of PWK. Other than the Bravo a couple of miles south of 34 and 30, it's a good airport to go in and out of. Too many towers around Schaumburg, and I didn't like flying out of there the one time I did.
 
Zero chance of an IFR clearance into 06C between 6am and 10pm lcl. The question, though was on getting out, which is less black and white.

If ORD is landing east, there is no way to get an IFR release off the ground because the approaches into ORD are less than 1000' above the MVA as they pass over 06C (so IFR separation would be impossible), and they aren't going to stop all the arrivals into ORD for 10 mins to accommodate a departure from 06C.

If ORD is landing west, it is possible to obtain an IFR release off the ground...I did it 3 years ago; that's probably the last time it happened. You would probably expect a log delay, though, as your release would be metered with all of the ORD departures, so you may be number 25 for takeoff even though you're the only one moving on the ground at 06C.

It's pretty uncommon for pilots to try, probably because of the expected long delay. I work IFR arrivals inbound for 06C on occasion, I usually will vector them to about 15 miles out and tell them that if they wish to remain IFR, expect a turn away from the airport. I personally always provide flight following for as long as the pilot would like (usually till the airport is in sight), but some controllers don't, especially if they're busy.
 
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