IFR Current - Spacial D freakout

[midlifeflyer]

As others said in various ways, learn to trust your instruments and your ability to read them. Get some post-rating instruction targeted at days of actual, even if it's just to ride along. Find those "light IFR" days and do it to build both experience and confidence.

I heard a program speaker say the ultimate goal is, you don't care whether you are in the clouds or not. For most of us who fly casually rather than professionally or for business, that goal may not be attainable. But with more experience comes more comfort.

 

[denverpilot]

Another technique I’ve heard for folks who get disoriented entering low overcasts at first, is simply to continue the use of foggles or a hood and get it down / in place, prior to entry.

(And Ed is right, get the aircraft configured early. 2000 fpm doesn’t have to be 2000 fpm all the way to the cloud deck if you aren’t ready. Slow the ascent rate after 1000’ AGL and trim it, if you need more than the fairly long 45 seconds to 1500’ AGL.)

Your brain has seen a lot more of that “view” of the cockpit and hood than the (possibly) distracting stuff out the window. So for some, the brain is less distracted by it.

It’s a crutch, but an option for a low time IMC pilot who knows they’ll be distracted by the entry. Maybe slightly tired, angled cloud layer, weird lighting... whatever.

Can save the cloud entries to get used to it, for a day when you’re super sharp, or have a right seat helper along.

Of course the more in and out you might be and convective the area weather is, the more you may need to see outside in those breaks, which wearing a view limiting device during, might be unwise.

YMMV. But it’s an option. They’re usually sitting there in your flight bag anyway.

Caveat: The “leans” can happen with or without. They’re not related. But if the problem is what’s out the window is distracting, remove the ability to look out the window.

 

[N1120A]

Get the plane cleaned up. If you're going to lose it low, it isn't going to matter - the plane belongs to the insurance company anyway. When I take off into IMC, I'm actually less likely to want to use the autopilot - both for practice and workload reasons. It is there if I need it, but I want to get my bearings as soon as possible. Even in clear VMC, unless the pattern is busy and I'm looking for a bunch of slow, ham fisted Cessnas, I like to practice making an instrument transition as soon as possible just to keep myself from getting disoriented during the real thing.

 

[sarangan]

One of the problems with spatial disorientation is that we lose our scan...we tend to fixate on one instrument, which allows other parameters to deviate, and makes the problem worse (or at least harder to recover).

I can’t really offer any solutions other than “you just have to fight through it until you can get out of the clouds.” I had a really bad case back when I was doing my commercial training...kept up for a full two-hour lesson. When I got out of the airplane I could barely walk, much less drive home. 35 years and 13,000 hours later, I’ve only had a few minor occurrences, focused on my scan, and it went away in a few seconds.

I think it would be interesting to see if using the inadvertent IMC technique that AOPA used to teach would help, as it has you “fixate” largely on the turn & bank, but you’d have to give somebody a really good case of SD to find out.

I would agree with this statement. When we get tensed up, we tend to fixate on one instrument. I know it is easier said than done, but when things get stressful, try to move your sitting posture, and move your legs around a bit.

 

[Palmpilot]

I got the leans while doing pattern work under special VFR a month or two ago. Visibility was barely over a mile due to all the smoke. I had to just focus on following my instruments while glancing at the GPS and outside for visual landmarks.

 

[DRey]

Lots of solid advice here. Even after hundreds of hours actual, whenever possible, I have the plane configured and stable when entering IMC, keeping head movements minimal and slow.

And do what you did: trust your instruments no matter what. Keep your personal minimums conservative as you build confidence. You’ll get it.

 

[David Megginson]

Took off the other day into a broken layer at 1500 AGL to begin a long instrument flight over an overcast layer. After take off, I was on instruments but configuring the aircraft for after takeoff, gear and flaps, adjusting power etc. Got into the clouds during climb out and immediately got the leans.

I've got 80 hours instrument time but only 17 in IMC so rather low time in regard to IMC flying. I recently did an IPC in IMC and felt fine. I did some solo enroute (IFR) cloud flying a few weeks back so I was really shocked that SD hit me as hard as it did. This was also the first time I've done a lot of this stuff (IMC climb-out and IMC approach) without another pilot sitting in the right seat so I knew it was all on me.

Luckily, I knew it was a thin layer and I emerged just a few seconds after getting my insides turned upside down. It really got my attention and I was pretty spooked the rest of the flight especially knowing that I'd eventually have to shoot an approach thru the clouds.

Prior to my approach, center cleared me to a lower altitude that stuck me back in the clouds for about 10 minutes which felt like an hour but at least this time I was better mentally prepared; but it still felt a little white-knucklish. I got below the clouds after the FAF and unpuckered a bit, but that was a really stressful flight.

I thought I was prepared, I started my scan prior to entering the clouds on take-off, prior to my roll I reminded myself of what to expect and practiced my flow so it would happen naturally so I could focus on my scan. But that Spacial D scare just freaked my bean and I never really fully recovered my nerves.

I feel like I need more practice, particularly solo IMC. Because I know with another pilot, there's someone else there that can save my bacon so it's not so terrifying. Problem is, I'm a little freaked and don't really know how to go up again into the clouds solo.

I'm sorry that happened, and I'm glad you're OK.

Just out of curiosity, are you good at sports, especially ones that require fast and instinctive reactions, like baseball or tennis? I have a pet theory (with no evidence) that people who are used to trusting their bodies and reflexes have a harder time in IMC than those who don't (e.g. the bookworm might do better in IMC than the athlete), and I'm interested in anecdotal evidence. Hand flying in IMC forces you to ignore everything your body's telling you, and I'm speculating that that's easier for people who never much trusted their bodies in the first place, and are more thinkers than do-ers.

 

[EdFred]

I'm sorry that happened, and I'm glad you're OK.

Just out of curiosity, are you good at sports, especially ones that require fast and instinctive reactions, like baseball or tennis? I have a pet theory (with no evidence) that people who are used to trusting their bodies and reflexes have a harder time in IMC than those who don't (e.g. the bookworm might do better in IMC than the athlete), and I'm interested in anecdotal evidence. Hand flying in IMC forces you to ignore everything your body's telling you, and I'm speculating that that's easier for people who never much trusted their bodies in the first place, and are more thinkers than do-l0ers.

I completely debunk that hypothesis. I will spare the brag post, but I only got slight SD once during training (very early) and am at least 2 standard deviations better than average at every sport I have ever picked up.

 

[David Megginson]

I completely debunk that hypothesis. I will spare the brag post, but I only got slight SD once during training (very early) and am at least 2 standard deviations better than average at every sport I have ever picked up.

Oh well -- there goes my theory.

I've felt the leans, of course, but they've never affected my flying, because I've always trusted my brain more than my body anyway. I'm that guy who swings two seconds after the ball has gone over the plate because I was thinking about it. But while that's a disadvantage in sports, that happens to be an advantage when you have to override instinct with reason (sure, my body's telling me I'm in a 45 degree bank, but the AI, TC, DG, ASI, VSI, ALT and mag compass all agree that I'm straight and level, therefore I'm straight and level, and my body's instincts are full of sh*t. Q.E.D.)

 

[labbadabba]

I'm sorry that happened, and I'm glad you're OK.

Just out of curiosity, are you good at sports, especially ones that require fast and instinctive reactions, like baseball or tennis? I have a pet theory (with no evidence) that people who are used to trusting their bodies and reflexes have a harder time in IMC than those who don't (e.g. the bookworm might do better in IMC than the athlete), and I'm interested in anecdotal evidence. Hand flying in IMC forces you to ignore everything your body's telling you, and I'm speculating that that's easier for people who never much trusted their bodies in the first place, and are more thinkers than do-ers.

Interesting theory, I wouldn't say I'm GOOD but I play(ed) a lot of sports competitively. Football, Baseball, Ice Hockey, Volleyball

 

[David Megginson]

Interesting theory, I wouldn't say I'm GOOD but I play(ed) a lot of sports competitively. Football, Baseball, Ice Hockey, Volleyball

Yes, I consider my theory thoroughly exploded, at least based on anecdotal testimony here.

What about motion sickness? Do people who get motion sick easily find it easier or harder to ignore their vestibular systems and trust the panel in IMC?

 

[Oldmanb777]

So much of IMC flying is psychological. The plane knows how to fly, let it. If you get nervous, the plane will too. Relax and fly. I know its hard to do sometimes. Having a passenger get nervous, or disoriented can be really distracting. You can fly under the hood, You can fly in the clouds, the only person that needs convincing, is YOU!!!!!!!!

 

[David Megginson]

So much of IMC flying is psychological. The plane knows how to fly, let it. If you get nervous, the plane will too. Relax and fly. I know its hard to do sometimes. Having a passenger get nervous, or disoriented can be really distracting. You can fly under the hood, You can fly in the clouds, the only person that needs convincing, is YOU!!!!!!!!

I agree with a lot of this, except that flying under the hood has almost no relation to flying in the clouds, so it doesn't tell you anything (good or bad).

The usefulness of hoods and foggles is just a convenient fiction we all maintain, like the Emperor's New Clothes, because IFR training would be impractical and expensive if we admitted that they don't help prepare people for actual IMC.

 

[Palmpilot]

I agree with a lot of this, except that flying under the hood has almost no relation to flying in the clouds, so it doesn't tell you anything (good or bad).

The usefulness of hoods and foggles is just a convenient fiction we all maintain, like the Emperor's New Clothes, because IFR training would be impractical and expensive if we admitted that they don't help prepare people for actual IMC.

What makes you think so?

Personally, I find that if I don't practice IFR procedures either under a hood or with an ATD, my ability to safely fly in the clouds deteriorates a great deal. (It's not possible for me to spend enough time in the clouds to maintain proficiency through that alone.)

 

[MD2105]

I agree with a lot of this, except that flying under the hood has almost no relation to flying in the clouds, so it doesn't tell you anything (good or bad).

The usefulness of hoods and foggles is just a convenient fiction we all maintain, like the Emperor's New Clothes, because IFR training would be impractical and expensive if we admitted that they don't help prepare people for actual IMC.

I think the hood/foggles helps with developing and maintaining a scan, but nothing is better during IR training than experiencing real IMC flight.

 

[David Megginson]

What makes you think so?

Personally, I find that if I don't practice IFR procedures either under a hood or with an ATD, my ability to safely fly in the clouds deteriorates a great deal. (It's not possible for me to spend enough time in the clouds to maintain proficiency through that alone.)

There is no easy way to avoid a bit of peripheral vision, and especially, the shadows moving across the dash, both of which you lose in the clouds. I know lots of people—including me—who've experienced the leans in solid IMC, but not one who has ever experienced them in any serious way using a hood or foggles, which (I think) makes the point.

I do agree with @MD2105 that foggles (or a hood) are good for helping a student focus on the scan (sort-of like a horse's blinders).

 

[Palmpilot]

When wearing foggles or a hood, I've never gotten enough information from my peripheral vision to keep the plane upright without reference to instruments. Maybe that has something to do with the fact that I'm near-sighted and wear glasses, so that my peripheral vision is out of focus. I also avoid paying attention to my peripheral vision in any case, because even if it were in focus, why defeat the purpose?

One reason why I prefer a hood to foggles is that I can adjust it to block my view to the sides; I don't want anything to distract me from the instruments.

 

[labbadabba]

I did much of my IFR training at night (winter and I work 9-5) so I did experience SD under the hood but yeah...in the daytime, having the shadows on the panel alone is enough to dispel any serious SD.

 

[David Megginson]

I did much of my IFR training at night (winter and I work 9-5) so I did experience SD under the hood but yeah...in the daytime, having the shadows on the panel alone is enough to dispel any serious SD.

Great point. In night VFR, you could experience the leans even without a hood, especially if it's a new moon, the clouds are obscuring the stars, and there's little/no ground lighting.

 

[N1120A]

Yeah, my CFI actually had me do my hood training for my private primarily at night. Doing the Oscar Pattern at night is not easy, at all.