If airlines sold paint

kontiki

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Kontiki
got this in email this morning ->

From an airline Captain with more than three decades in the airline industry. He says "I never really understood how airline ticket pricing worked until I read this analogy. Perhaps some of the airline pilots and passengers on your mailing list might also appreciate this."



Customer: Hi. How much is your paint?

Clerk: Well, sir, that all depends on quite a lot of things.


Customer: Can you give me a guess? Is there an average price?


Clerk: Our lowest price is $12 a gallon, and we have 60 different prices up to $200 a gallon.


Customer: What's the difference in the paint?


Clerk: Oh, there isn't any difference; it's all the same paint.

Customer: Well, then I'd like some of that $12 paint.


Clerk: When do you intend to use the paint?


Customer: I want to paint tomorrow. It's my day off.


Clerk: Sir, the paint for tomorrow is the $200 paint.


Customer: When would I have to paint to get the $12 paint?


Clerk: You would have to start very late at night in 21 days, or about 3 weeks. But you will have to agree to start painting before Friday of that week and continue painting until at least Sunday.


Customer: You've got to be *&%^#@* kidding!


Clerk: I'll check and see if we have any paint available.


Customer: You have shelves FULL of paint! I can see it!


Clerk: But it doesn't mean that we have paint available. We sell only a certain number of gallons on any given weekend. Oh, and by the way, the price per gallon just went to $16. We don't have any more $12 paint.


Customer: The price went up as we were talking?


Clerk: Yes, sir. We change the prices and rules hundreds of times a day, and since you haven't actually walked out of the store with your paint yet, we just decided to change. I suggest you purchase your paint as soon as possible. How many gallons do you want?


Customer: Well, maybe five gallons. Make that six, so I'll have enough.


Clerk: Oh no, sir, you can't do that. If you buy paint and don't use it, there are penalties and possible confiscation of the paint you already have. If you change any colors there is a $50.00 change fee, even if it is the same brand. Also, no refunds.


Customer: WHAT?


Clerk: We can sell enough paint to do your kitchen, bathroom, hall and north bedroom, but if you stop painting before you do the bedroom, you will lose your remaining gallons of paint.


Customer: What does it matter whether I use all the paint? I already paid you for it!


Clerk: We make plans based upon the idea that all our paint is used, every drop. If you don't, it causes us all sorts of problems.


Customer: This is crazy!! I suppose something terrible happens if I don't keep painting until after Saturday night!


Clerk: Oh yes! Every gallon you bought automatically becomes the $200 paint.


Customer: But what are all these, "Paint on sale from $12 a gallon", signs?


Clerk: Well that's for our budget paint. It only comes in half-gallons. One $6 half-gallon will do half a room. The second half-gallon to complete the room is $20. None of the cans have labels,
some are empty and there are no refunds, even on the empty cans.


Customer: To hell with this! I'll buy what I need somewhere else!


Clerk: I don't think so, sir. You may be able to buy paint for your bathroom and bedrooms, and your kitchen and dining room from someone else, but you won't be able to paint your connecting hall and stairway from anyone but us. And I should point out, sir, that if you paint in only one direction, it will be $300 a gallon.


Customer: I thought your most expensive paint was $200!


Clerk: That's if you paint around the room to the point at which you started. A hallway is different.


Customer: And if I buy $200 paint for the hall, but only paint in one direction, you'll confiscate the remaining paint.


Clerk: Yes, and we'll charge you an extra use fee plus the difference on your next gallon of paint. But I believe you're getting it now, sir.


Customer: You're insane!


Clerk: Thanks for painting with United!



~ Author Unknown ~
 
Should have added the "paint club" where you get free paint for buying stuff on a credit card... LOL.

Just watched my MIL attempt to change a miles ticket date a couple of days ago. The CSR trying to explain to an 80+ year old that everything she had booked was going to more than double to change the flight and incur enough in fees to make it cheaper to just cancel the whole thing and buy a Southwest ticket, was interesting.

Of course she ended up staying on the miles airline since once those fees are processed, you aren't getting them back.

Honestly the CSR did bend over backwards once the magic words "hospital release date" and "wheelchair bound" were uttered. But it was easily an hour long phone call.

A few days prior you should have heard the phone call to get started with her spouse's miles number, since he had a stroke and can't speak on the phone yet.

Google "dead spouse" and "airline miles" sometime if you really want to get ticked off. United will gladly "transfer" 60,000 miles between any member and another for $900. (Not kidding.)
 
They sell seats ,more legroom , seats with a view,food ,snacks. Pretty soon they will probably be in the paint business.
 
The last time I flew commercial was almost 35 years ago, it was actually pretty simple back then. Between the TSA's junk fondling contributions and the convoluted pricing structures of the airlines, I have a good hunch that I've already taken my last commercial flight.

Nothing has been done to increase the appeal of airline travel since my last flight. Wait...I forgot.... I flew down to Mazatlan out of Tijuana on a Mexican airline about twenty years ago with my gf. That was downright nice. The stew kept bringing me beer and snacks, plenty of leg room, no hassles.

-John
 
I've seen similar missives before and have to just shake my head. Pretty much a usless comparison considering airline seats have a very specific expiration date and time. They can only be produced in a very defined and limited number for any given flight and unused seats can't be stored for later use or returned to the store. Just a couple of the reasons these comparisons are a joke.
 
Well if you want a product you can better control and predict then bring back regulation :D. Of course it will be more expensive but you can have all the stuff you used to get. And I'm sure my idea will go over like a fart in church too !
 
If bringing back regulation would make it so commercial flying was more enjoyable, I'm all for it.
 
I've seen similar missives before and have to just shake my head. Pretty much a usless comparison considering airline seats have a very specific expiration date and time. They can only be produced in a very defined and limited number for any given flight and unused seats can't be stored for later use or returned to the store. Just a couple of the reasons these comparisons are a joke.

I sell material that has limited shelf life on it. (when the flights are going)I also only have so much warehouse space for it.(number of seats on the flight). Our price stays the same. Yeah, we've had to scrap some from time to time because we overbought,(empty seats) but our prices don't go up because we just feel like it, or because there's only a few boxes left. On occasion a customer wants it a week or two early - sometimes we can accommodate them, and sometimes we can't. On occasion we've run out (overbooked) but we have material the next day. Either way the price is the price, end of story.
 
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If bringing back regulation would make it so commercial flying was more enjoyable, I'm all for it.

Oh no ! It's in the Constitution, it's a God given right that you HAVE to be able to fly from one end of this country to the other for LESS than it costs to drive it in a car ! :rolleyes:

Think for just a moment how many drunk rednecks Southwest keeps off the highways !
 
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Oh no ! It's in the Constitution, it's a God given right that you HAVE to be able to fly from one end of this country to the other for LESS than it costs to drive it in a car ! :rolleyes:

Personally, I'd rather pay a little more so Trailer Park Tammy and Little Johnny Snotnose aren't on the flight.
 
My name is not Johnny!

My name is Tim and Diz approved this message
 
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We regerly fly Jet Blue between LAS and BOS. They offer "more space" seats with a "fast pass". Well, the more space seats are essentially first class, with a short cut through TSA, the "short line".

We checked in at Boston coming back, we had not pre purchased the "more space" seats. They always offer the upgrade when you self check in. Did not see the "more space" offer last trip, so figured they were sold out. But the still offered the "fast pass" for a $25 fee per person to get in the short line through TSA. No thanks.

So an agent is checking for boarding passes before we get in the TSA line, to see if they can direct us to the fast line. Then we still show the pass and ID to TSA.

Does TSA get a cut on the extra fee the airline charges to keep an extra inspection line open?
 
We regerly fly Jet Blue between LAS and BOS. They offer "more space" seats with a "fast pass". Well, the more space seats are essentially first class, with a short cut through TSA, the "short line".

We checked in at Boston coming back, we had not pre purchased the "more space" seats. They always offer the upgrade when you self check in. Did not see the "more space" offer last trip, so figured they were sold out. But the still offered the "fast pass" for a $25 fee per person to get in the short line through TSA. No thanks.

So an agent is checking for boarding passes before we get in the TSA line, to see if they can direct us to the fast line. Then we still show the pass and ID to TSA.

Does TSA get a cut on the extra fee the airline charges to keep an extra inspection line open?

This may interest you ....

http://www.tsa.gov/tsa-precheck

It works extremely well at participating airports and if your carrier is on board.
 
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I sell material that has limited shelf life on it. (when the flights are going)I also only have so much warehouse space for it.(number of seats on the flight). Our price stays the same. Yeah, we've had to scrap some from time to time because we overbought,(empty seats) but our prices don't go up because we just feel like it, or because there's only a few boxes left. On occasion a customer wants it a week or two early - sometimes we can accommodate them, and sometimes we can't. On occasion we've run out (overbooked) but we have material the next day. Either way the price is the price, end of story.

So you never varied your price based on market demand or gave discounts for buying in bulk or to frequent customers?
 
What a totally bizarre pricing structure..... :mad2::mad2::(
I think it is the result of the transition from a regulated market to an unregulated one. When the airlines were regulated there were complex rules devised by the government and used by the airlines to set prices. When deregulation hit the airlines were so used to a totally unrealistic fare structure (the actual cost of the flight was of minimal importance in the regulated fare structure) that they expanded it.
 
So you never varied your price based on market demand or gave discounts for buying in bulk or to frequent customers?

Thats the funny thing about airline pricing, the most frequent buyers of tickets are business travelers, and they pay 2-3X's as much as the guy that flies once per year!:mad2::mad2: Only because they need to go on a certain date or at a certain time vs planning 4 months in advance and flying on Tuesday.:rolleyes:
 
I've seen similar missives before and have to just shake my head. Pretty much a usless comparison considering airline seats have a very specific expiration date and time. They can only be produced in a very defined and limited number for any given flight and unused seats can't be stored for later use or returned to the store. Just a couple of the reasons these comparisons are a joke.

Grocery stores carry foods that are perishable.
As a meat or produce item approaches its expiration date, do the grocery stores increase its prices, decrease its price, or keep it the same?

Still not a great analogy?

Then consider buses, taxis, trains, subways, and ferries. Are these analogous enough for you or not? How do you think they handle pricing? Which of them play the same pricing strategies that airlines do? Which employ simple pricing models?
 
So you never varied your price based on market demand or gave discounts for buying in bulk or to frequent customers?

Nope. Same pricing, because I want my customers to come back by choice, not because we are the only option.
 
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How about just charging what the seat is worth? Instead, you pick a price you want to pay, THEN pick a seat based on that price. 'Scuse me?!? I want THIS seat. How much?
I've actually seen the prices change on seat AS I WAS LOOKING. Happens every time. Now I know... They cannot be selling tickets to Glasgow Scotland at 3AM. And it actually doesn't matter what route you're looking at. Pick one right now and look. Record the prices. 30 minutes later, do it again. Or even better, do it from Expedia or Orbitz.
And jack up the cost of the whole trip by charging for luggage, food, and drink. They all deserve to rot in hell. While a necessary evil, one I wish I could really avoid. Somehow, I'll have to find a way to afford the Citation Sovereign I've been dreaming about. "Do you take American Express?!?!"
 
I've seen similar missives before and have to just shake my head. Pretty much a usless comparison considering airline seats have a very specific expiration date and time. They can only be produced in a very defined and limited number for any given flight and unused seats can't be stored for later use or returned to the store. Just a couple of the reasons these comparisons are a joke.

Airlines face two big problems. The first one is this pricing model which seeks to maximize revenue for every seat on every plane that you reference. Just about every other business doesn't try to sell one particular product for the highest possible price, but instead seeks to maximize the most revenue and profit from each of it's customers. Aside from some mostly useless perks of being an elite frequent flyer, Delta does nothing to make sure it's getting the most out of my wallet. This makes no sense to me and is a huge flaw in the pricing model. Not to mention the end result is you price gouge your best customers and give great deals to your worst. Again, makes no sense and very hard to find other industries that follow this model.

The second, even bigger problem, is that time and again the traveling public votes with its wallet that a less reliable flight, with worse service flown in less comfortable equipment with, arguably, slightly less safe planes and crews is going to win every time if it's even only a little cheaper than a flight with more comfortable seats and a better on time record that costs more.

Combine one and two and you now know why you just spent $800 for your ticket from SLC to Austin in a regional jet that serves no food or drinks and is four late because of an alleged cloud three time zones away.
 
In an ideal world the airlines would charge by the mile... .20 or .30 or whatever the decent price is to cover expenses and a good profit...

So ,lets say it is 150 bucks one way from LAX to MCO... That price is set for purchases two weeks out.. Then as the time draws near departure,any empty seat gets cheaper............... as a plane with empty seats when the cabin door closes is not maximizing it's potential...

If ya want to gamble and hope to get a 75 buck seat for that flight, just hang out at the ticket counter 1 hour before departure... 30 minutes before and that same seat is down to 50 bucks... if the airline had 20 empty seats on that flight they could recover 1000 -1500 more dollars then if they pushed back with 20 empty seats...... To me it is a NO brainer...:yes::yes;);)
 
In an ideal world the airlines would charge by the mile... .20 or .30 or whatever the decent price is to cover expenses and a good profit...

So ,lets say it is 150 bucks one way from LAX to MCO... That price is set for purchases two weeks out.. Then as the time draws near departure,any empty seat gets cheaper............... as a plane with empty seats when the cabin door closes is not maximizing it's potential...

If ya want to gamble and hope to get a 75 buck seat for that flight, just hang out at the ticket counter 1 hour before departure... 30 minutes before and that same seat is down to 50 bucks... if the airline had 20 empty seats on that flight they could recover 1000 -1500 more dollars then if they pushed back with 20 empty seats...... To me it is a NO brainer...:yes::yes;);)

Yeah well unless you have a Harvard MBA, are 29 years old and have never REALLY run anything (because you've been in college your whole adult life) the airlines would NOT be interested in you for an upper level position. You're just not gonna fit in with the other "Geniuses" they already have. :D
 
And jack up the cost of the whole trip by charging for luggage, food, and drink.
By breaking out separate charges (fees) for everything they can and thereby keeping the actual "fare" price as low as they can while still raking in the same total dollars the airlines have found a way to minimize their payments to the FAA and several other "tax collectors" (airports, cities, etc) because AFaIK the FAA "head tax" and other fare based taxes are a fixed percentage of the basic fare, excluding all the "fees". If this is true, we as GA pilots should be screaming about it to our congresscritters since the airlines aren't paying their "fair share".
 
That was cute about the paint. Here's a corollary: If you buy our paint today, and today's price the price of our competitors paint will be exactly the same. If our price goes up in the next 3 minutes, the price of our competitors paint will go up too. If our price goes down later, you don't get the savings and our competitor won't trade our paint in for their paint.

It's a great scheme they've got going. Kayak.com offers a 'price alert' system but you have to sign up and give an email. They will send you a bunch of travel spam unrelated to the price alert you are interested in. My wife signed up for it using her email and I think they saved us about $45 on one fare about a year ago. I prolly would have found the lower fare without the alert as I check the website every couple of days for the flights we want. Meh - quite a hassle for all the spam it generates. I presume the other airline flight aggregator sites have a similar deal.
 
I sell material that has limited shelf life on it. (when the flights are going)I also only have so much warehouse space for it.(number of seats on the flight). Our price stays the same. Yeah, we've had to scrap some from time to time because we overbought,(empty seats) but our prices don't go up because we just feel like it, or because there's only a few boxes left. On occasion a customer wants it a week or two early - sometimes we can accommodate them, and sometimes we can't. On occasion we've run out (overbooked) but we have material the next day. Either way the price is the price, end of story.

I finally agree with Ed :yesnod:

In my veterinary hospital we have a fee table. That is what you pay. If you cancel and reschedule an appointment I pay my staff to stand around and wait for the next guy. If I try to charge a no show fee I will never see you again. I get a few clients from other clinics that tried that. If we are slammed and everyone is doing 10 things at once and you demand to bring your cat in RIGHT NOW because it is dying (from hair balls) you can bring your cat in for the same fee. If I refuse to see you you will never come back. If I buy a hundred count bottle of a medication for a hundred dollars and only sell ninety dollars worth before they expire I don't charge you extra to make up for my loss, although if I have some that are about to expire I might give you a discount on whatever quantity you can use before they expire.

But now that I think about it I think I might start varying my fee based on how many appt slots I have available when you decide you want to come in. I have one appointment slot this afternoon. If you want it will be $300. But my afternoon on Thursday is wide open. You can have one of those for $25 if you think your cat will live that long. :no:
 
I saw an interesting interview with Bob Crandall about this very subject. He flipped the very argument around. He stated the only reason why those last minute seats were available were because of those who purchased their tickets well in advance. They could never run an airline based on last minute business passengers. Way too much of the cost was sunk the moment they offered the flight up for sale. By selling most of the tickets at a discount early softened the bet that enough revenue would be generated to cover cost.

If you're ever bored on a holiday, CNBC ran a special of a day in the life of American Airlines. Very interesting program. AA ran a 767 from JFK to LAX and only made $200 net. The DFW-BDL light did better at $2000.


Thats the funny thing about airline pricing, the most frequent buyers of tickets are business travelers, and they pay 2-3X's as much as the guy that flies once per year!:mad2::mad2: Only because they need to go on a certain date or at a certain time vs planning 4 months in advance and flying on Tuesday.:rolleyes:
 
Thats the funny thing about airline pricing, the most frequent buyers of tickets are business travelers, and they pay 2-3X's as much as the guy that flies once per year!:mad2::mad2: Only because they need to go on a certain date or at a certain time vs planning 4 months in advance and flying on Tuesday.:rolleyes:

I typically fly last minute as in <24hr notice and end up with ridiculously cheap fairs. My flight from Ft Lauderdale to Anchorage July 1 booked the night before was $404, My flight from Seattle to Ft Lauderdale this Thursday night booked over a week ago is $629.:dunno:
 
I typically fly last minute as in <24hr notice and end up with ridiculously cheap fairs. My flight from Ft Lauderdale to Anchorage July 1 booked the night before was $404, My flight from Seattle to Ft Lauderdale this Thursday night booked over a week ago is $629.:dunno:

Dang, way cheaper than you could do it in a 310 ! :D
 
By breaking out separate charges (fees) for everything they can and thereby keeping the actual "fare" price as low as they can while still raking in the same total dollars the airlines have found a way to minimize their payments to the FAA and several other "tax collectors" (airports, cities, etc) because AFaIK the FAA "head tax" and other fare based taxes are a fixed percentage of the basic fare, excluding all the "fees". If this is true, we as GA pilots should be screaming about it to our congresscritters since the airlines aren't paying their "fair share".


I don't think the point is to minimize fees to the FAA.

The reason is to be competitive on the platform where all tickets are now sold...the internet. A $5 raise in base fare can mean the difference between the first page of an internet search and page 3 and if you're on page 3 you might as well not exist.

So the airlines are motivated to post up the absolute lowest price possible to get that seat at the top of page one and make up the money elsewhere...bags, inflight sales, credit card enrollments, and all the other stuff.
 
If you're ever bored on a holiday, CNBC ran a special of a day in the life of American Airlines. Very interesting program. AA ran a 767 from JFK to LAX and only made $200 net. The DFW-BDL light did better at $2000.

It was an interesting show but useless since they didn't share the actual numbers. Did that include debt service, for example?

AA played CNBC like a fiddle. What "reporter" takes the company's word for it without showing the math or confirming it?

Total puff piece and an hour of free advertising for AA. Masterful PR.
 
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