I want an Aerostar SO BAD. Grrrrrr

D

docmirror

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Cowboy - yeehah!
Man, I was over looking at an Aerostar last week, and dabbling around online drooling over them and the prices.

Op-ex v cap-ex is one thing, and I just can't figure out a reason I need to move over the ground at 220Kts burning all that avgas between TX, CO, OK, NV, and AZ.

But - I still got a case of the wants, and I got it baaaaaaaad. Guessing if I just go buy one, it'll be in the shop much of the time until I do all or most of the Machen upgrades. Get one with most of them already done is also something to look at. I gotta go to Des Moines this wknd, and I'm going to be puttering along at a measly 145Kts, but burning a lot less gas. I really would like to be going Aerostar speeds, but the cost per mile... O my gosh :yikes:
 
dang, at this point I would love 145kts.
 
Plus IMO they are just good lookin planes.
 
Oh, I can go 160+ but I don't need the speed and fuel burn. Just me sitting there 140-ish is fine. that's another thing, I don't have any need for 5-6 seats. About 80% of my flying is solo, but that doesn't mean I still don't want it!

It's fun to sound like a whiny 11YO girl sometimes.
 
docmirror said:
Oh, I can go 160+ but I don't need the speed and fuel burn. Just me sitting there 140-ish is fine. that's another thing, I don't have any need for 5-6 seats. About 80% of my flying is solo, but that doesn't mean I still don't want it!

It's fun to sound like a whiny 11YO girl sometimes.
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Have you considered one of the fast, 2-seat experimentals? ie. Glasair III, Lancair 360, Legacy, etc?
 
Why not a mooney?
I thought those screamed at low fuel burn.
 
If all you want is speed why not get something smaller? You can get an SR22 or Cessna Corvalis. How about a Bonanza with a PT6 conversion? 250kts cruise speed http://www.turbinebonanza.com/content/performance.

The Aerostar might not be very expensive itself, but don't forget about the maintenance.
 
dans2992 said:
Have you considered one of the fast, 2-seat experimentals? ie. Glasair III, Lancair 360, Legacy, etc?
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Saw a Lancair 360 at the DTO airshow last weekend. That's one sharp looking aircraft!
 
docmirror said:
Oh, I can go 160+ but I don't need the speed and fuel burn. Just me sitting there 140-ish is fine. that's another thing, I don't have any need for 5-6 seats. About 80% of my flying is solo, but that doesn't mean I still don't want it!

It's fun to sound like a whiny 11YO girl sometimes.
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What are you flying right now?
 
I have an old Bo, with a big engine. It's got some other mods, and is in good rig.

Well, the deal is, I just want it. I'd like a twin for the security, and I looked at lesser twins like the Twinkie, which is a fine plane but -- it's not an Aerostar! lol, don't need to be rational, like getting a Glasair, which is my fave EXP, and would be much more suitable to my mission.
 
I would shop and shop and shop around then.... take a month off and if I still wanted it..... find one.
 
docmirror said:
I have an old Bo, with a big engine. It's got some other mods, and is in good rig.

Well, the deal is, I just want it. I'd like a twin for the security, and I looked at lesser twins like the Twinkie, which is a fine plane but -- it's not an Aerostar! lol, don't need to be rational, like getting a Glasair, which is my fave EXP, and would be much more suitable to my mission.
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I'd say a single turbine is more reliable than two pistons, plus you already have the airframe. Take a look at that PT6 conversion, you may actually like it.
 
What rating / training does one need to fly turbine?

No more right rudder when climbing!
 
docmirror said:
Man, I was over looking at an Aerostar last week, and dabbling around online drooling over them and the prices.

Op-ex v cap-ex is one thing, and I just can't figure out a reason I need to move over the ground at 220Kts burning all that avgas between TX, CO, OK, NV, and AZ.

But - I still got a case of the wants, and I got it baaaaaaaad. Guessing if I just go buy one, it'll be in the shop much of the time until I do all or most of the Machen upgrades. Get one with most of them already done is also something to look at. I gotta go to Des Moines this wknd, and I'm going to be puttering along at a measly 145Kts, but burning a lot less gas. I really would like to be going Aerostar speeds, but the cost per mile... O my gosh :yikes:
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Well, what's keeping you from getting one? You trying to die with a big wad of cash?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
What rating / training does one need to fly turbine?

No more right rudder when climbing!
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All you'd need is a high performance endorsement. Realistically you'd need to spend a few hours flying with an instructor to learn to operate the engine, but once that's done a turbine is easier to operate than a piston.
Insurance might want some turbine time too, but I don't know that for a fact.

Actually you'd still need a bit of right rudder as you will still have the spiraling slipstream from the prop.
 
MachFly said:
All you'd need is a high performance endorsement. Realistically you'd need to spend a few hours flying with an instructor to learn to operate the engine, but once that's done a turbine is easier to operate than a piston.
Insurance might want some turbine time too, but I don't know that for a fact.

Actually you'd still need a bit of right rudder as you will still have the spiraling slipstream from the prop.
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prop?

Thought he meant jet engine.
 
Henning said:
Well, what's keeping you from getting one? You trying to die with a big wad of cash?
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My rational, engineer, left brain, is still pretty much in charge. The rainbow, tra-la, artsy, needy right brain is in remission. Meh - it's only money. I'll keep shopping, maybe that will keep me satisfied for a few more years when prices really tank.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
prop?

Thought he meant jet engine.
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Turbo prop, the PT-6 is a turboprop engines that has all the same turning tendencies as a recip with a prop. If you have a pure turbojet/turbofan engine, you then need a type rating.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
prop?

Thought he meant jet engine.
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PT-6 variant. It's a turbo-shaft much like one side of a King Air. My airframe is not approved for the mod, it's far too expensive, and uses as much or more fuel as two IO-540s on the Aerostar.

<edit: Henning got it just before me>
 
I was just out at Prescott doing a Jetprop Pre-buy inspection. Arizona Aircraft has a nice Aerostar that they would really like sell.

It's just money!
 
docmirror said:
PT-6 variant. It's a turbo-shaft much like one side of a King Air. My airframe is not approved for the mod, it's far too expensive, and uses as much or more fuel as two IO-540s on the Aerostar.

<edit: Henning got it just before me>
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I wasn't aware about the airframe. Is it that much more expensive though? I realize the original price would be lower on the Aerostar but given that it's a large 70s aircraft the maintenance won't be cheap either. I'm not saying that it's unreliable, it's just that it has a lot of things that do wearout.

Regarding the fuel flow I don't think your right. According to that website that I provided my original PT6 post the Bonanza will be burning 29gph (it's a small PT6 so that fuel flow sounds about right), the Aerostar will be burning you 38-44gph. Also keep in mind that Jet A is noticeably cheaper.
 
kmead said:
I was just out at Prescott doing a Jetprop Pre-buy inspection. Arizona Aircraft has a nice Aerostar that they would really like sell.

It's just money!
Click to expand...

Yup, I had a glance at that one too. It's got the Aspen panel which is nice and costly upgrade, but the props are due for some love right now. I think no matter what I did on this plane, the contract would include two prop OH before I plunk down the moola. It's tasty though.
 
MachFly said:
I wasn't aware about the airframe. Is it that much more expensive though? I realize the original price would be lower on the Aerostar but given that it's a large 70s aircraft the maintenance won't be cheap either. I'm not saying that it's unreliable, it's just that it has a lot of things that do wearout.

Regarding the fuel flow I don't think your right. According to that website that I provided my original PT6 post the Bonanza will be burning 29gph (it's a small PT6 so that fuel flow sounds about right), the Aerostar will be burning you 38-44gph. Also keep in mind that Jet A is noticeably cheaper.
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Well, there's marketing info, and they there's the real truth. Yes, the PT-6 can operate at 29GPH, but you gotta get to 25k' to do that. In a non-pressure plane, with 6 seats that means everyone has to have a mask on. So, real world I suspect most of these operate between 16-22k and no mask, where fuel flows are a bit higher.

I think you're basically right, that the actual cost would be lower, even if the fuel burn is similar, and it appears that for like speed, the modified Bo would be lower op-ex all around. But - oh my gosh, the cap-ex is -- gulp.

That's the siren song of the Aerostar. They are bitchen looking, apparently a sweet plane to fly, and you get your twin engines plus pressure so we can sit in comfort at FL 180 or so. I think the turbine Bo would be a fine choice for the same type of mission, but this isn't about the brainy part of the mission, this is about manliness, and ramp presence. No one outside of the aviation world will pay two seconds attention to a turbine Bo, but when you arrive in an Aerostar, you really arrive! :wink2:
 
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Very nice superstar for sale here in maryland. Corporate owned and always hangared and kept in first class condition. I have known the pilot for many years. I have his phone number if your interested.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Very nice superstar for sale here in maryland. Corporate owned and always hangared and kept in first class condition. I have known the pilot for many years. I have his phone number if your interested.
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Nah, just tire kicking now. Don't want to waste folks time.

Here's the process I'm thinking of. My kid wants to get her license starting late this year, so I might give/sell her the Bo for primary and inst, and then once that happens I can upgrade. Looking at a bunch of upgrade options, and the best overall fit for me would really be the Twinkie. I fly into CO a fair amount, and once in a while over the big rocks. Like to have an extra engine hung. Practically, I could do with a newer, bigger Bo with recip engine. But the Aerostar was my boyhood dream plane. I already got the Ferrari, and it's fun but the Aerostar is like the capstone for 'I have arrived', which is in no way logical, but pretty much all of GA is impractical to some degree.
 
docmirror said:
Well, there's marketing info, and they there's the real truth. Yes, the PT-6 can operate at 29GPH, but you gotta get to 25k' to do that. In a non-pressure plane, with 6 seats that means everyone has to have a mask on. So, real world I suspect most of these operate between 16-22k and no mask, where fuel flows are a bit higher.
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You kinda have a point there.
Here are the numbers I get, just keep in mine that mine are PT6A-28s (bigger than the Bonanza's 21s). At around 22K it's about 290PPH (per side), at 2-3K (which I never cruise at for obvious reasons) it's close to 400PPH.
For comparison Bonanza's 29GPH is 194PPH.

I think you're basically right, that the actual cost would be lower, even if the fuel burn is similar, and it appears that for like speed, the modified Bo would be lower op-ex all around. But - oh my gosh, the cap-ex is -- gulp.

That's the siren song of the Aerostar. They are bitchen looking, apparently a sweet plane to fly, and you get your twin engines plus pressure so we can sit in comfort at FL 180 or so. I think the turbine Bo would be a fine choice for the same type of mission, but this isn't about the brainy part of the mission, this is about manliness, and ramp presence. No one outside of the aviation world will pay two seconds attention to a turbine Bo, but when you arrive in an Aerostar, you really arrive! :wink2:
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Very true. A small counterpoint is you'll be able to tell all your friend that you have a jet engine. :)
 
You bastardo... Don't you know it's bad to feed the head? :D:D

Nice music too.
 
I share your Aerostar want. Totally. I look at every ad for the type and constantly try to convince myself I should do it.
But the buy-in for a good one is high, the operating costs are vastly higher than my M20j, I usually fly alone or rarely with one, and finally the tail is too high for my hanger door.
When you figure out how to get this urge to go away, please let me know.
 
You're worse than me, sell a Bo to buy an LSA, buy another Bo and want an Aerostar. Just go for the G650, or a hang glider.:D
 
docmirror said:
Nah, just tire kicking now. Don't want to waste folks time.

Here's the process I'm thinking of. My kid wants to get her license starting late this year, so I might give/sell her the Bo for primary and inst, and then once that happens I can upgrade. Looking at a bunch of upgrade options, and the best overall fit for me would really be the Twinkie. I fly into CO a fair amount, and once in a while over the big rocks. Like to have an extra engine hung. Practically, I could do with a newer, bigger Bo with recip engine. But the Aerostar was my boyhood dream plane. I already got the Ferrari, and it's fun but the Aerostar is like the capstone for 'I have arrived', which is in no way logical, but pretty much all of GA is impractical to some degree.
Click to expand...

I have a nice 310 which will perform better than the Twinkie on not much more money.
 
bartmc said:
You're worse than me, sell a Bo to buy an LSA, buy another Bo and want an Aerostar. Just go for the G650, or a hang glider.:D
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Boeing 737-corp on the high end please.:D

Funny I used to hang glide quite a bit back in my hippie SoCal days. I got fairly good at it, but the cost of the kites went crazy pricing with the double sided sails, and the body suits, etc. The Aerostar is a nice compromise.

What I really should have for my 'mission' is a Glasair with a parachute. Long stretches over semi-hostile terrain gets the brain into that 'what if?' mode and the parachute would alleviate some of the paranoia.

I think what bugs me is the affordability of the buy-in. It's like crack, the first hit is (almost) free. You jump on a plane at $120k, sittin' pretty and in a few months you're writing checks for $6k, $11k, $21k for various bits on the engine/airframe to keep it weeded, trimmed, and well watered.
 
Get one Random!

They're great planes. And actually very economical in fuel as far as twins go. I do 25gal/hr at 195-200kts up high. If you really want to push endurance you can get it down to 21gal/hr doing 187kts. Compared to a Twin Bonanza, you'll be going about 50kts faster on less fuel burn - or - pulled back to match the speed of the Twinbo, you will burn considerably less. There's no substitute for a small cross section and a thin wing when it comes to fuel economy. Hence why Mooneys seem to do so well in this regard.

And the good thing is you can get into a basic 601P pretty cheap and upgrade as you go along. Aerostar Aircraft still make all the mods and upgrades. Mine didn't have the intercoolers for instance, but that's something I can add later. In fact, I will be adding the bigger brakes and an aux fuel tank this fall as these are the things I need the most right now. And if you don't need pressurisation, the 600's and the 601B's are very cheap to get into.
 

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