I tried, I failed

Coinneach

Coinneach

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Coinneach
I'm leaving my airplane partnership, my first attempt at owning. Just asked my partners to buy out my share and find a replacement. If they're unwilling or unable, I've also posted on TAP. My mindset and theirs are just too different. I have quite enough stress in my non-aviation life; I don't need more stress in the one thing that brings me joy.
 
I don't see it as a failure, just a bad relationship that you're going to put behind you. Failure would be staying in and being miserable. Applies to a lot of other relationships. I've been in bad business relationships, and when I look back I don't think failure, I think "I'm am SO HAPPY to be free of that crap."
 
I don't see it as a failure either, not unless you were going into it thinking it was going to be a forever relationship. Hopefully you thought of it more as dating rather than marriage.
 
asicer said:
I don't see it as a failure either, not unless you were going into it thinking it was going to be a forever relationship. Hopefully you thought of it more as dating rather than marriage.
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very well said
 
Coinneach said:
No, I really was hoping for something permanent, or at least long term. Renting is dating. Partnership is more like poly.
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renting is more like seeing a hooker. Partnerships dating in the beginning until you find one that really works. I have heard a lot of horror stories about partnerships. A great one is very hard to find, it’s a lot of trial and error to find that one.
 
I have yet to see a partnership that works for a long period of time. I wouldn't let this bother you, there will be other opportunities that will come up.
 
So...did you not have any idea as to their mindset or the master plan prior to buying in, or did they misrepresent the deal and not do their part ?

I know a partnership would not work for me...I tried it years ago and ended up buying out my other partner...luckily, we are still friends.

You survived a learning experience...move on.
 
mondtster said:
I have yet to see a partnership that works for a long period of time. I wouldn't let this bother you, there will be other opportunities that will come up.
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You've seen one now. My first partnership lasted 10 years, until my partner had to bow out because of the '08 crash. Second lasted similarly, until I sold the airplane to upgrade. I'm only about a year into my third partnership but it's going really well.
 
Coinneach said:
I'm leaving my airplane partnership, my first attempt at owning. Just asked my partners to buy out my share and find a replacement. If they're unwilling or unable, I've also posted on TAP. My mindset and theirs are just too different. I have quite enough stress in my non-aviation life; I don't need more stress in the one thing that brings me joy.
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I fly too much for a partnership to work IMO. I try to fly everyday and sometimes twice a day on weekends. Last fall I flew 23 days in a row, tried to make it a month but I was too tired to safely fly another day. Plus the weather was iffy that day.

I looked at a 182 that a partner was selling his share, no thanks as that plane was like the one you have gotten out of. Ancient ancient panel and lots' of hail dents from sitting outside on a ramp.

I rent a T hangar and practically live in it. My best buddy's hangar is next door and we hang out and fly a lot together.
 
Sorry to read the partnership did not work out. I read about partnerships that work, and how there are very clearly defined rules to govern fair use of the aircraft and availability to all partners. But unless there's mutual respect for each other and the aircraft, things can turn sour quickly. I sold out of my partnership after 2 years at a substantial loss, and found that owning my own plane made me much happier.
 
Perhaps its just confirmation bias, but I hear too many stories like the OPs to make me ever interested in a partnership. Sole ownership is the only way for me to own, otherwise rent/nonequity club.
 
Doug Reid said:
So...did you not have any idea as to their mindset or the master plan prior to buying in, or did they misrepresent the deal and not do their part ?

I know a partnership would not work for me...I tried it years ago and ended up buying out my other partner...luckily, we are still friends.

You survived a learning experience...move on.
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^this.
I've witnessed many partnerships and even brought a partner in to my last plane. It worked out great.

I've seen and read about many of the wrong kind. The people involved are more important than the type of aircraft.
 
My partner and I bought our plane in 2007, and we added two more guys along the way. Everything is great, we're all of like mind in how to operate and maintain the bird. One guy wants out, and we've been trying to find a match, but it's been hard. He's willing to wait until we find the right guy to replace him.

My airplane partnership is about #286 on my list of things to worry and stress over.
 
It's not a waste of time and money if you learned from it.

After leaving my first post-college job with bit aerospace after 13 months someone asked if I thought I'd wasted a year. I said it wasn't a waste. I learned that I never wanted to do that again. Apparently, I forgot. 40 years later, after two buyouts, I found myself working for big aerospace again and liking it less than the first time.
 
Doug Reid said:
So...did you not have any idea as to their mindset or the master plan prior to buying in, or did they misrepresent the deal and not do their part ?

I know a partnership would not work for me...I tried it years ago and ended up buying out my other partner...luckily, we are still friends.

You survived a learning experience...move on.
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I met the other guys and went over the agreement line by line before they accepted my buy-in. That doesn't protect anyone from one of them being either incredibly forgetful or a gaslighting sierra oscar bravo. The guy whose share I bought was with them for 15 years and only left because he wanted a faster, IFR-capable airplane. So apparently I'm the only one who has a problem with the arrangement.
 
Coinneach said:
I met the other guys and went over the agreement line by line before they accepted my buy-in. That doesn't protect anyone from one of them being either incredibly forgetful or a gaslighting sierra oscar bravo. The guy whose share I bought was with them for 15 years and only left because he wanted a faster, IFR-capable airplane. So apparently I'm the only one who has a problem with the arrangement.
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True. Paperwork can only get you so far.
 
Coinneach said:
I met the other guys and went over the agreement line by line before they accepted my buy-in. That doesn't protect anyone from one of them being either incredibly forgetful or a gaslighting sierra oscar bravo. The guy whose share I bought was with them for 15 years and only left because he wanted a faster, IFR-capable airplane. So apparently I'm the only one who has a problem with the arrangement.
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It's not a fail. Just not a good match. You want something different (and I'm actually on your side with what you want with your aircraft) than the previous partner and the current partners. It happens. The guy that left might still fly a POS IFR airplane. It's just like finding the right job, right girl, right house, etc... Very few of us got it right the first time. I'm on my second aircraft. Doesn't mean the first one was a fail.
 
I like the ability to go fly when I want, only have to answer to my wife and not have to put up with other people's BS. I gripe about the shared hangar I'm in, I couldn't imagine a shared airplane.
 
I’d like to partner in a fun to fly plane where it’s not really important if I can fly it at any given moment. But the aircraft I fly often and want a high dispatch rate on, I probably wouldn’t want a partner. I’ve been looking for a few years for that “fun to fly plane partner” and am not getting any closer, so maybe I don’t really want it that bad.
 
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I've been in a shared ownership of a 182 for almost 17 years. Three member LLC, two of us since the beginning, one has changed once just because they decided to stop flying. We spent many hours together over a couple months discussing flying, life, the universe, and everything, to be sure it was a good match. It's like a marriage, you have to be willing to work at it at times.
 
Not a failure. You tried, wasn't what you were really wanting, now moving on and going forward.
 
Coinneach said:
I met the other guys and went over the agreement line by line before they accepted my buy-in. That doesn't protect anyone from one of them being either incredibly forgetful or a gaslighting sierra oscar bravo. The guy whose share I bought was with them for 15 years and only left because he wanted a faster, IFR-capable airplane. So apparently I'm the only one who has a problem with the arrangement.
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I had to look that up, gaslighting. Still not sure I get what it means. A liar basically?

edit:
I found this to explain it:
"The term stems from the title of a 1938 British play called Gas Light...
Here is where the term comes in: He dims the gaslights in their home (while also doing things like making noises around the home), and when confronted by his wife about the noises and change in lighting, he continues to state that the lighting is the same and that he hasn't heard a thing, sewing seeds of doubt in her perception and reality."

so, a manipulative conniving liar then, :)
 
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mondtster said:
I have yet to see a partnership that works for a long period of time. I wouldn't let this bother you, there will be other opportunities that will come up.
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Some partnerships work well... mine probably isn't a great example, but my twin brother talked me in to purchasing 50% of a Citabria with him. We were 17; he had just passed his PP checkride; I hadn't had a single lesson at the time. We co-owned aircraft, usually 2 at a time, for over 40 years, until I moved from Alaska to the lower 48. I'm a sole owner now... downsized a lot from a C185 and Scout float plane to an RV. I agree, your partner(s) have to share your beliefs on aircraft maintenance, fair use, etc.
 
I was in a co-owner/partner deal on a plane for a brief amount of time many years ago. The intent then was to buy it, fix it up. and sell at a slight profit. That plan worked but there was enough learned in the event to persuade me that if I was gonna have a plane I would be the owner.

Lessons learned ... ;)
 
exncsurfer said:
I had to look that up, gaslighting. Still not sure I get what it means. A liar basically?

edit:
I found this to explain it:
"The term stems from the title of a 1938 British play called Gas Light...
Here is where the term comes in: He dims the gaslights in their home (while also doing things like making noises around the home), and when confronted by his wife about the noises and change in lighting, he continues to state that the lighting is the same and that he hasn't heard a thing, sewing seeds of doubt in her perception and reality."

so, a manipulative conniving liar then, :)
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To the point of trying to make someone believe they are crazy. Like in the 1944 film “Gaslight” with Ingrid Bergman.
 
I've been fortunate with the partners in my 172 and it's been extremely helpful to split costs. I bought the plane almost 2 years ago and brought 3 friends in gradually over the first few months of ownership. We've made some avionics upgrades and the value (and cost) of the aircraft has increased significantly. But it's an easier pill to swallow when you're 25% invested vs 100%. None of us travel - we use the 172 to putz around locally. Someone might take it for a weekend to a neighboring state. Big whoop. One of the O.G. partners fell on hard times and I ended up buying him out after 2 months of listing his share on T.A.P. We ended up finding a replacement partner after an additional 3 months. We had a few candidates come through, some less than an ideal fit than others. One notable one inquired about taking the plane on a coast to coast tour for 3 months. That's not our bag, baby, and I would recommend sole ownership for someone looking to monopolize a plane in such a way. We have an operating agreement that spells out the key points, but as others have said, some people might not respect other partners despite a sheet of paper.

We eventually found the perfect partner - retired g-man, flies occasionally just to bore holes in the sky, pleasant as the day is long. He read the operating agreement and eventually met the other 2 partners before everyone gave their OK (existing partners and prospective partner). Personality compatibility is essential.
 
To me, gaslighting is intentionally altering someone's experiences to either convince them of something that you know is true, or cause them to think they're just nuts. As in the movie. But if you have two people who really are kinda nuts - people flying around in an aircraft with broken equipment on purpose - I don't think it's gaslighting, I think it's just a group of people who have goofy beliefs that are trying to convince you they're right. It doesn't make them any less dangerous, they're just mini-cult leaders rather than mini-con artists.

Or in other words, I don't think it matters too much if the guy that doesn't maintain his plane well is doing so because he's cheap and understands the risk, or just doesn't understand the risk and is ignorant. I don't want to be flying that plane either way.
 
Albany Tom said:
...people flying around in an aircraft with broken equipment on purpose...
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Is this in reference to the OP, subsequent post, or tangential / anecdotal personal experience? I don't recall reading about a disagreement on maintenance / differing standards for maintenance being a driving wedge in this thread...? ... unless I've blacked out...
 
Albany Tom said:
Or in other words, I don't think it matters too much if the guy that doesn't maintain his plane well is doing so because he's cheap and understands the risk, or just doesn't understand the risk and is ignorant. I don't want to be flying that plane either way.
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Funny ... there is a guy at our airport that does some strange stuff on his plane. I've called him on it but either he doesn't understand or don't care.

He often tells me that I'm allowed to fly his plane of I'd like to. I told him I can't fly his plane. When he asked why I told him bluntly, "because I've watched you work on it."
 
edo2000 said:
Some partnerships work well...
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There's always some, but they certainly seem to be the exception and not the rule. The co-owned airplanes in my area that I am aware of are a constantly revolving door of people buying in and trying to use the plane, only to get frustrated with a partner or two that think they own the airplane and basically try to control all the decision making. I'd bet the average length of partnership in these local planes is less than two years.

edo2000 said:
I agree, your partner(s) have to share your beliefs on aircraft maintenance, fair use, etc.
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These reasons are the primary complaints I've heard from former owners about the local groups that are trying to make partnerships work. There are one or two people in each that have strong personalities and opinions on how things should be done but they're the minority, and eventually the other people get tired of dealing with these guys so they sell out. Most of the guys have either gotten out of flying or went out and bought their own airplane and are much happier.

At one time I had expressed interest in owning a portion of a single seat Pitts so I was invited to a meeting with 4 other individuals that were trying to buy such an airplane. Each pilot had different goals with ownership so there was a lot of debate over what to buy. It took me less than 30 minutes to determine that there was no way I was going to partner with these guys because it was clear that nobody was willing to buy a nice example of anything nor were they willing to work to make anything nice. One of the guys eventually bought one on his own and subsequently burnt it down and part of the row of hangars it was in with his "maintenance" practices.
 
Several years ago I was considering an airplane partnership with a friend of mine. I asked another friend, who had been in several partnerships over the years, how to find/write an agreement. The first words out of his mouth were, “Make sure it’s got a good exit strategy.”
 
Nathan Miller said:
Is this in reference to the OP, subsequent post, or tangential / anecdotal personal experience? I don't recall reading about a disagreement on maintenance / differing standards for maintenance being a driving wedge in this thread...? ... unless I've blacked out...
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Prior thread, same topic, continuation of story.
 
Daleandee said:
Funny ... there is a guy at our airport that does some strange stuff on his plane. I've called him on it but either he doesn't understand or don't care.
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Every airport seems to have at least one of those guys.
 
Nathan Miller said:
Is this in reference to the OP, subsequent post, or tangential / anecdotal personal experience? I don't recall reading about a disagreement on maintenance / differing standards for maintenance being a driving wedge in this thread...? ... unless I've blacked out...
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The original original post was me asking if getting my instrument rating in a VFR airplane was pointless. All y'all drove that thread into the weeds, so here we are.
 
I think a perfect situation would be to find a partner or 2 that are in similar stages and motivation. Agree on a modest IFR trainer with a finite sell out time. Imagine flying for 2 years only paying for one annual and skipping the bi-annuals I'm thinking more than one person to increase the safety pilot availability and compatablity. Buy well and If you're lucky on the planes maintenance and the price of tea stays up it could be a reasonable $ lease type situation. Sell out and split the maintenance reserves.
 
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