I think I'll keep wearing my mask when the pandemic is over

[SoCal RV Flyer]

Don't need mandatory helmet laws, it's not the gov't job to make sure people keep their brains inside their skull.

Natural selection at its finest. Just keep up the life insurance policy payments for the kinfolk.

 

[Bill]

Now we're going to teeter on the edge of political, but without other removal of rights by forcing you to pay for something you had no responsibility for, someone not wearing a helmet doesn't take money out of your pocket.

Survivable head trauma results in higher insurance bills vs accidents without head trauma. This results in higher health and vehicle insurance for all.

 

[vkhosid]

Don't need mandatory helmet laws, it's not the gov't job to make sure people keep their brains inside their skull. Leave that decision to personal responsibility . . . just like masks.

What if the impact doesn't kill them, and just incapacitates? They go on some sort of public assistance and my taxes are paying the bill...
Depends on how thinly you wanna split that hair. I suspect it can get pretty messy.

 

[Bill]

So, hypothetically, what would you do if you were on a ride and you stopped somewhere. You locked the helmet to your bike but in spite of that you found that someone stole/damaged your helmet. No replacement was readily available. What would do?

What can you do in that instance? If you can't call someone for help, you'd have to ride gingerly to the nearest powersports dealer for a replacement.

 

[JOhnH]

What can you do in that instance? If you can't call someone for help, you'd have to ride gingerly to the nearest powersports dealer for a replacement.

See, that's part of my argument against helmets. They give you a false sense of security. If you don't have a helmet you ride "gingerly". If you do wear a helmet, you (and I mean the generic "you", not you personally), take unnecessary risks. I always ride my little scooter gingerly. I can't imagine going through an intersection without looking for someone about to run a red light any more than looking both ways when I cross an intersecting runway, even if that runway is inactive.

 

[Salty]

See, that's part of my argument against helmets. They give you a false sense of security. If you don't have a helmet you ride "gingerly". If you do wear a helmet, you (and I mean the generic "you", not you personally), take unnecessary risks. I always ride my little scooter gingerly. I can't imagine going through an intersection without looking for someone about to run a red light any more than looking both ways when I cross an intersecting runway, even if that runway is inactive.

Riding "gingerly" in heavy traffic can get you killed faster. Riding gingerly is not looking over your shoulder before changing lanes, and monitoring traffic in left turn lanes or intersections.

 

[Bob Noel]

See, that's part of my argument against helmets. They give you a false sense of security. ...

Did anyone notice that "stick work" in the NHL and college hockey games became much more prevalent once players were wearing helmets and face shields?

 

[JOhnH]

Riding "gingerly" in heavy traffic can get you killed faster.

First, I don't live in an area of heavy traffic. And I wouldn't take my little scooter into it if there was heavy traffic. I avoid main roads when I can and I never hit the highway.

 

[Salty]

First, I don't live in an area of heavy traffic. And I wouldn't take my little scooter into it if there was heavy traffic. I avoid main roads when I can and I never hit the highway.

You're lucky. Just be aware as others have already said above, most injuries are at slow speeds. Hitting the pavement with your face at 15 mph is going to mess you up good. Every mph faster is just that much worse.

 

[Seanaldinho]

So, hypothetically, what would you do if you were on a ride and you stopped somewhere. You locked the helmet to your bike but in spite of that you found that someone stole/damaged your helmet. No replacement was readily available. What would do?

I don't leave my helmet attached to the bike as a first step, but playing through the scenario...

I used to live in Maryland, which has a mandatory helmet law that was strictly enforced. You're SOL unless you wanna run the risks of a ticket, which I don't. You're either calling a friend or maybe a dealership/moto store nearby for some help to get a helmet.

I now live in a state without a mandatory helmet law. I'd weigh the risks. A big thing to start with is do you have proper eyewear? 70mph wind is hell on your eyes and a rock or bug at 70 hurts. Even at 45 it isn't great. If it is dark out and you only have sunglasses, I also wouldn't ride in that situation. What's the temperature? Nothing worse than shivering on a bike and a helmet keeps a lot of heat in.

I treat riding a lot like flying. No booze, not when I'm tired, not when I'm in a hurry, and I'm actually very averse to riding at night. There is a conscious decision to turn the key and I follow mental checklists.

 

[DaleB]

What??? Not printed checklists? No 45 minute pre-ride inspection?

I kid, I kid. Love seeing how far afield this kind of discussion invariably goes.

 

[Sac Arrow]

So, hypothetically, what would you do if you were on a ride and you stopped somewhere. You locked the helmet to your bike but in spite of that you found that someone stole/damaged your helmet. No replacement was readily available. What would do?

That's a tough one. Helmets are required here and the lack thereof is a ticketable offense. If it's damaged but wearable, it is what it is. If it's gone and I'm on side roads, I'll just take it slow and take my chances. If I have a hundred miles of freeway between me and where I need to go, I'll probably Uber to the nearest place I can get a helmet and go back. Oh yeah, what if the places are closed.

It takes a special kind of a**wipe to steal a person's helmet when they are out in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Bob Noel]

To beat the horse a little more... why don't we have a mandatory helmet law when driving/riding in a car? Someone I know suffered a concusion in a relatively low-speed "accident" (the vehicle was struck from behind). Had she been wearing a suitable helmet, she wouldn't have had a concussion.

 

[SoonerAviator]

What if the impact doesn't kill them, and just incapacitates? They go on some sort of public assistance and my taxes are paying the bill...
Depends on how thinly you wanna split that hair. I suspect it can get pretty messy.

Probably be a blip on the amount of taxes we pay related to stuff that we didn't cause/don't use, lol. Auto insurance rates will increase about the same whether they were wearing a helmet or not, since there aren't many auto policies that are going to cover much in the way of hospital bills when it comes to an extended stay.

 

[aftCG]

What if the impact doesn't kill them, and just incapacitates? They go on some sort of public assistance and my taxes are paying the bill...
Depends on how thinly you wanna split that hair. I suspect it can get pretty messy.

I personally know more people who have fallen off ladders and were killed or had a TBI than people who have had the same fate on a motorcycle (and until recently I commuted 1600 miles/month on a motorcycle so I'm not crawling out from under a rock to say this)

So by your logic, we should be doing something about ladders.

 

[Ted]

The sign of a BMW rider: traffic safety yellow gear.

 

[mondtster]

But when I did ride a real motorcycle, I hated my full face helmet. Nobody believes me but I think helmets obscure your peripheral vision enough to be dangerous.

How long ago was that? I haven't owned a helmet that was made in the last 10 years that I felt would restrict vision. I could see that being true with some of the older helmets I've owned though.

So, hypothetically, what would you do if you were on a ride and you stopped somewhere. You locked the helmet to your bike but in spite of that you found that someone stole/damaged your helmet. No replacement was readily available. What would do?

Depends on how far away from home I was and what kind of environment I'd be riding in. For the most part I'd just ride home and buy a new helmet.

 

[JOhnH]

How long ago was that? I haven't owned a helmet that was made in the last 10 years that I felt would restrict vision. I could see that being true with some of the older helmets I've owned though.

Yeah, it was a long time ago. I started riding at 15 (1967) and rode street bikes up until about 20 years ago. And I wore full coverage helmets that whole time and hated them and I never dropped a bike. My wife bought the scooter earlier this year and I have only recently started riding it.

 

[inactive15]

I actually ride a scooter, but I neglected to mention that because of the nerd factor.
But when I did ride a real motorcycle, I hated my full face helmet. Nobody believes me but I think helmets obscure your peripheral vision enough to be dangerous. I was almost killed a few times when I changed lanes and almost hit someone I didn't see. And one time a bee blew up in my helmet and almost made me wreck as it buzzed around inside the face shield.

I agree 100%! I have open face and full face helmets in my inventory and with out a doubt I prefer the open face for the added peripheral vision and perceived freedom. I will typically use the open face helmet for around town travels since lower speeds are involved. On longer trips where highway travel is required I will armor myself with protective clothing and a full face helmet. I found myself in two instances on a highway is full face attire where I did not see vehicles while changing lanes. Keep in mind that the logic used for my selection of helmets has little to do with overall safety as you can get sideswiped or rear-ended coming out of your driveway.

 

[Sac Arrow]

So here was my accident. Completely, totally... my fault.

I was cruising the back country hills on the 1200RT on a road frequently taken by sports bikers to test their limits. I've been through it a million times both on the GSXR and the BMW. I was in a long, uphill sweeper going full throttle, at about 110 when I found myself on the outside of the curve. I was thinking about something else. At some point I realized I was going off the road, and figured hopefully I could ride it out.

The small asphault drainage curb was enough to launch my bike in the air, and fling it about 100 feet, and me too. I landed about 100 feet away from the impact zone, flipped a few times on the pavement, and watched my bike spiral on the pavement, emitting a shower of sparks, and finally hitting a large rock face on the other side of the road, 500 feet away, exploding in to pieces and burning up. The impact of the launch was enough to shear the side cases off the frame. They were still back at the launch point. One cylinder of the engine was sheared off. There are pieces of that bike on the side of the road to this day, and this was just over ten years ago.

I got up, and I'm thinking... holy carp, I'm still alive! I had an armored mesh jacket on, heavy pants, riding boots, gloves and a full face helmet. I was able to stand up. I was bleeding all over the place, and noticed that the clutch lever was embedded in my side, so I pulled it out.

My first instinct was to get the hell out of there and clean up the mess. A car finally passed by and stopped, and he drove me to a gas station about three miles away. People were going like "That guy needs an ambulance!" And I'm going "No, I don't need an ambulance!" Then I got really dizzy, sat down, and woke up in an ambulance.

I didn't break anything. I had major lacerations, some road rash, massive blunt force trauma, and spent three days in the ER. It took months to fully recover. The face of my helmet was ground off pretty good but it held. I apparently set some kind of record at the hospital, in that it was the worst accident they ever saw someone live through.

Oh yeah, I had some 'splaining to do on my next 3rd class medical. Well, and to the CHP motor officer who found me in the ER. I'm not sure which was worse, the FAA or the CHP. Both let me off.

 

[Ted]

How long ago was that? I haven't owned a helmet that was made in the last 10 years that I felt would restrict vision. I could see that being true with some of the older helmets I've owned though.

I just bought a Harley Davidson full face helmet (on clearance because nobody besides us who rides Harleys wears full face helmets). I’ve previously had Nolan N100 helmets (flip face). I find the Harley helmet to be noticeably more restrictive in vision than the Norlans were.

 

[JOhnH]

So here was my accident. Completely, totally... my fault.

I was cruising the back country hills on the 1200RT on a road frequently taken by sports bikers to test their limits. I've been through it a million times both on the GSXR and the BMW. I was in a long, uphill sweeper going full throttle, at about 110 when I found myself on the outside of the curve. I was thinking about something else. At some point I realized I was going off the road, and figured hopefully I could ride it out.

The small asphault drainage curb was enough to launch my bike in the air, and fling it about 100 feet, and me too. I landed about 100 feet away from the impact zone, flipped a few times on the pavement, and watched my bike spiral on the pavement, emitting a shower of sparks, and finally hitting a large rock face on the other side of the road, 500 feet away, exploding in to pieces and burning up. The impact of the launch was enough to shear the side cases off the frame. They were still back at the launch point. One cylinder of the engine was sheared off. There are pieces of that bike on the side of the road to this day, and this was just over ten years ago.

I got up, and I'm thinking... holy carp, I'm still alive! I had an armored mesh jacket on, heavy pants, riding boots, gloves and a full face helmet. I was able to stand up. I was bleeding all over the place, and noticed that the clutch lever was embedded in my side, so I pulled it out.

My first instinct was to get the hell out of there and clean up the mess. A car finally passed by and stopped, and he drove me to a gas station about three miles away. People were going like "That guy needs an ambulance!" And I'm going "No, I don't need an ambulance!" Then I got really dizzy, sat down, and woke up in an ambulance.

I didn't break anything. I had major lacerations, some road rash, massive blunt force trauma, and spent three days in the ER. It took months to fully recover. The face of my helmet was ground off pretty good but it held. I apparently set some kind of record at the hospital, in that it was the worst accident they ever saw someone live through.

Oh yeah, I had some 'splaining to do on my next 3rd class medical. Well, and to the CHP motor officer who found me in the ER. I'm not sure which was worse, the FAA or the CHP. Both let me off.

You were truly riding like an idiot. And because of that, you think I need a full coverage helmet on my little 45 mph scooter.
Again I will point out; if you weren't wearing all that armor, would you have been driving like that and had that wreck?

 

[Justin M]

A full face helmet is the reason I still have the bottom half of my face. The damage to my helmet in that area was scary, but it held up.

I agree with that. My first accident was someone turning left in front of me. I watched a car run into my face and was glad for the helmet to take the impact.

What? You mean you didn’t land on the top of your head?

My third accident was someone crowding me out of my lane, I landed on the top of my head (head, feet, head, feet, head, sprawl).

Both cases my helmet meant my face and head were not damaged despite the actions of other drivers.

There were no helmet laws in the states where I was driving motorcycle; but I always wear full face and so do my passengers.

 

[Lowflynjack]

I just bought a Harley Davidson full face helmet (on clearance because nobody besides us who rides Harleys wears full face helmets).

The Bandidos MC do! I think it’s mostly to conceal their faces, but still!

 

[wrbix]

Local meeting of accountants and orthodontists?

 

[Morgan3820]

I wear a seatbelt always, but not because there is a law that says I have to. I resent the law that dictates my behavior .

 

[Morgan3820]

What if the impact doesn't kill them, and just incapacitates? They go on some sort of public assistance and my taxes are paying the bill...
Depends on how thinly you wanna split that hair. I suspect it can get pretty messy.

There is a lot of antisocial behavior that is tolerated, encouraged in fact. I won’t get into a list because it will surely hurt someone’s feelings. But where do you draw the line? We tried to ban alcohol, how did that work out?
Even with all of the gear, arguably, motorcycles are a drain onto society because the result in a greater likelihood of hospitalization than in an automobile. Right now I have private health insurance so I can say, at some level, I am paying the bill for any accidents. but as we lurch to socialized medicine, it will be easier to make the case that risky behaviors like Motorsports, flying should be banned.

 

[Bill]

The sign of a BMW rider: traffic safety yellow gear.

Guilty! I like the hi-vis gear, but that doesn’t mean I don’t like tossing it into a corner.

 

[Sac Arrow]

You were truly riding like an idiot. And because of that, you think I need a full coverage helmet on my little 45 mph scooter.
Again I will point out; if you weren't wearing all that armor, would you have been driving like that and had that wreck?

I think you have me confused with someone else. I did not say you need a full face helmet on your 45 mph scooter. I ride a 45 mph scooter two months out of the year in a tropical place on the other side of the ocean, and I do not wear a full face helmet. I'm not sure my little scooter can top out at 45, I've never had the traffic or the road to get much over 30.

I'm not exactly sure what the point of your question is. I mean the answer is yes, if I dump the bike on the pavement going 65, I want to be wearing full gear.

 

[JOhnH]

I think you have me confused with someone else. I did not say you need a full face helmet on your 45 mph scooter. I ride a 45 mph scooter two months out of the year in a tropical place on the other side of the ocean, and I do not wear a full face helmet. I'm not sure my little scooter can top out at 45, I've never had the traffic or the road to get much over 30.

I'm not exactly sure what the point of your question is. I mean the answer is yes, if I dump the bike on the pavement going 65, I want to be wearing full gear.

My apologies. It's not that I confused you with someone else, but rather that I lumped you in with all the other replies. I started a thread about how a mask can keep bugs out of your nose and mouth and it quickly devolved into a "gotta wear a full coverage helmet or you are going to die" rant. Your part was that you said a full coverage helmet probably saved your life, and from what you say, that is probably a 100% true statement. I took that as you confirming that I too needed to wear a full coverage helmet. Sorry that I took you wrong.

As for me saying you were driving like and idiot; that was probably too strong. But you were driving in a manner that I never would. There are some risks I will take and some I won't.

 

[steingar]

Sac's accident isn't in any way unusual. Greater than half the motorcycle accidents in any given year involve no cars or other vehicles. Lots involve alcohol.

 

[JOhnH]

Sac's accident isn't in any way unusual. Greater than half the motorcycle accidents in any given year involve no cars or other vehicles. Lots involve alcohol.

It might not have been unusual, but from the way he described it, it was predictable. Not that I would ever drive like that unless a bunch of mobsters were chasing me, but if I did, I would certainly wear a full coverage helmet and any other armor I could procure. But I'd still die in a crash like he described.

 

[steingar]

It might not have been unusual, but from the way he described it, it was predictable. Not that I would ever drive like that unless a bunch of mobsters were chasing me, but if I did, I would certainly wear a full coverage helmet and any other armor I could procure. But I'd still die in a crash like he described.

Won't deny it, but we're all human. The craziest stuff can become routine and our minds can wander. Thankfully my one and only get off was at low speed and is documented here on POA.

 

[flhrci]

Helmet yes, COVID mask, nope. No need to generate extra sweat wearing a mask.

 

[Bill]

It might not have been unusual, but from the way he described it, it was predictable. Not that I would ever drive like that unless a bunch of mobsters were chasing me, but if I did, I would certainly wear a full coverage helmet and any other armor I could procure. But I'd still die in a crash like he described.

Won't deny it, but we're all human. The craziest stuff can become routine and our minds can wander. Thankfully my one and only get off was at low speed and is documented here on POA.

We all have different risk levels. Back in my youth, I pretty much rode as fast I could wherever I could. Now much older, on the straight sections of road you'll find me puttering along at 65-70mph. No big thrill in going fast on straight sections. But, I still attack the corners pretty hard. LOVE twisties on a bike.

 

[Ted]

Guilty! I like the hi-vis gear, but that doesn’t mean I don’t like tossing it into a corner.

Oh I know you’re a real rider (and better than me by a long shot), and I’ve found most BMW riders to be serious as well. It’s just funny how they all gravitate to the same traffic safety yellow gear.

Me, I do like my Harley brand gear. Good quality, comfortable, like the looks. Yes it’s mostly poor visibility but we address that with other items on the bike. Effective? Questionable - I did have a guy almost make a left turn that would’ve been a significant crash a couple weeks back. It was also dusk, and I know better than to ride at dusk.

 

[Ted]

We all have different risk levels. Back in my youth, I pretty much rode as fast I could wherever I could. Now much older, on the straight sections of road you'll find me puttering along at 65-70mph. No big thrill in going fast on straight sections. But, I still attack the corners pretty hard. LOVE twisties on a bike.

It’s been about 9 years since I’ve owned a sport bike (the Guzzi definitely does not count) and back then, I had a hard time riding the things double digit speeds. They just always wanted to go faster. But I’m older and think I could happily own one riding at sane speeds.

Laurie and I might make it out to the dragon at some point in the next year or so. Wondering if we want to do that with our full dresser Harleys - very much not ideal for roads with turns.

 

[Bill]

Oh I know you’re a real rider (and better than me by a long shot), and I’ve found most BMW riders to be serious as well. It’s just funny how they all gravitate to the same traffic safety yellow gear.

That's me taking the pic in my Hi-Vis Darien, and my friend Alan on his GS in the mirror, Klim jacket with hi-vis highlights.

Laurie and I might make it out to the dragon at some point in the next year or so. Wondering if we want to do that with our full dresser Harleys - very much not ideal for roads with turns.

That would be great if we can coordinate. I can show you the dragon and a WHOLE lot more, the area is chock full of great roads.

 

[FastEddieB]

I was riding behind several bikes on the Blue Ridge Parkway in the fog. The only helmet that stood out was a bright yellow one. Since then, it’s all that I buy.

Here running Deal’s Gap on my 196cc TW200! In my 2-piece Aerostich RoadCrafter suit.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Speed may or may not have anything to do with your head injury fellas. Don't kid yourselves.

My brother dropped his Valkyrie at no more than 15mph to avoid getting clipped. He was wearing one of those helmets favored by mc cops. You would have thought it would have been non-event. A half-million bucks in hospital bills, a lost career as an IT exec; after ten years of therapy for TBI, he can finally hold down a job running a metal detector at City Hall.

I rode for 25 years, not worth the risk to me anymore.

Ffs, be careful.