I need some career guidance from anyone really. (Long post incoming)

P

PeterJ88

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
5
Display Name
Display name:
PeterJ88
I'm 25. Although I've always been an aviation buff since I was young, I've only ever worked as a server at a restaurant. At the time I started doing it, it was great money (especially as a first job). Unfortunately for me, I've never been quite the go-getter as far as life goes, and so I got complacent. Plus, to add on to it, the eustachian tubes in my ears are more narrow than normal, making ascending and descending in a plane quite painful...and to add onto that, I believe I have a chronic sinus infection which won't seem to go away. I understand there is a surgery to correct the problem with my ears, but I don't know if that'll fix the discomfort I experience.

When I was 20 years old, I heard about the CTI (Collegiate Training Initiative) program for air traffic control. Since I didn't believe I could fly, and it would still be in the aviation field, I went for that and obtained a scholarship. Took the two-year course and graduated 3 years ago. Ever since then I'd been waiting for the FAA to start hiring. On Feb. 10th of this year they opened their application process, and like many other qualified CTI grads, I didn't get past the bio questionnaire.

So here I am. I've contemplated for 2 months now about what I want to do with my life. I cannot think of anything. Any 9-5 job that has to do with sitting at a desk I simply don't think I could bear. Nothing at all interests me, except aircraft and flying. I don't think I'd want to even go for airline pilot. Maybe just flying for a smaller company. Maybe a lesser, decent job. I don't know.

I'm still a server and my income is not great. I have about $3,500-$4,000 saved up to my name. I know it's expensive, but I want to go for the flight training and get my certifications. I've no idea how I'm to go about it, which is why I've come here. Are there certain loans I can obtain? What can I possibly do to attain possibly the only thing I can imagine myself doing with my life?
 
What about getting an A&P certificate?
Have you checked into ATC jobs outside the U.S.?
 
I was honestly never too hot on being a mechanic. Is simply going the route of pilot too steep?
 
Nothing is "too steep" if you're willing to not sleep... that was my tactic to avoid crushing early life debt in my early 20s. 3 crappy jobs, flight time, college. Didn't kill me. Wasn't fun. But I didn't have any significant debt. Debt is a question you have to decide for yourself, but I won't do it if I can avoid it.
 
Join the service and get some hand on skills as an ATC controller. Do 2-4 years and get out. Vets get preference when the FAA hires. Great experience also. :yes:
 
Sounds like you need to deal with your health issues. Do you have health insurance?
 
Geico266 said:
Join the service and get some hand on skills as an ATC controller. Do 2-4 years and get out. Vets get preference when the FAA hires. Great experience also. :yes:
Click to expand...

That is a good plan. Otherwise, go with what you know? Waiters at high end restaurants seem to do decently, maybe you can go that route.
 
Geico266 said:
Join the service and get some hand on skills as an ATC controller. Do 2-4 years and get out. Vets get preference when the FAA hires. Great experience also. :yes:
Click to expand...

Many vets didn't get pass the BQ this time as well and many people are upset about that. I wouldn't go that route unless you really wanted to join the army in the first place. It's not guaranteed just like CTI wasn't guaranteed a job.

Have you thought about becoming an airline dispatcher? You are in charge of planning the flights and have sign off with the captain on the flight. You're also in charge of calculating the performance and checking the weather for the flight. Maybe look into that career option, plus the investment to become one is only about $4,000-$5,000 much cheaper than being a pilot and less time to spend at the regionals normally.
 
Aviatrix said:
I wouldn't go that route unless you really wanted to join the army in the first place.
Click to expand...

If you want training as a controller for the potential to do it in the civilian world, you go Navy or Air Force....not the Army.

Right now due to future projected personnel requirements, I would strongly suggest Navy. Under the President's proposed Defense budget, the Army is going to get slashed. Air Force has been hit hard as well. Navy, not so much.
 
Geico266 said:
Join the service and get some hand on skills as an ATC controller. Do 2-4 years and get out. Vets get preference when the FAA hires. Great experience also. :yes:
Click to expand...

There is no guarantees he will work as a Military Controller if he joins the service. They may give him a Rifle and go fight the Russians.
 
evapilotaz said:
There is no guarantees he will work as a Military Controller if he joins the service. They may give him a Rifle and go fight the Russians.
Click to expand...

Yet another reason to join the Navy if the military is the route you want to go. You will know before you sign anything whether or not you qualify and there are openings for the AC rating.

The other advantage of the military route is that as long as you were a controller in the military, the FAA age limits for ATC hiring can be waived.
 
If you describe yourself as "not a go-getter," then being a pilot is likely not a great route. Especially early on you need to put yourself out there to get a job.

If you don't want to be an A&P, then don't.

The ATC route doesn't seem like a bad idea, nor does the military route to get there.
 
To the OP, I'd stick with ATC since you have a good start going and you're still young. Did you get your CTO while at the CTI? If so you can apply for contract work. No sure if they'd take you without a CTO but it's worth a try. Contract towers don't pay much in the U.S. but overseas you'll make more than the FAA guys are getting here.


If you go military you can get ATC in your contract. When I got picked up in the Marines it was MOS 7300. It was a dual MOS of ATC / C-130 Navigator. I was one of seven that qualified for navigator but stuck with ATC instead. Navigator is no longer offered (J model) so it's just ATC. The school requires a high GT of 110 or higher but definitely doable. Of course if you fail out they'll send you where they want you but they still try and accommodate requests. Had a about a 25 % washout rate at the school house.


As far as branch, I'd go Air Force, Navy or Marines. In that order too. Air Force and Navy you'll get a good mix of traffic experience and facility ratings. My brother went AF and now works at a class C tower. USMC is good as well but there's a chance of getting stuck in tower or doing just GCA at a slow base. I was lucky in that I knocked out GCA, approach and CTO at busy Jet bases during my 8 yrs. Even did the MACS stuff (tactical ATC) if you're into that sort of thing. As far as the Army, I wouldn't recommend it because you won't get any descent traffic unless you go to certain duty stations. You'll be stuck out at a stage field in Rucker talking to students and going nuts or stuck in GCA doing the occasional PAR. Problem with the military route is after your 4 yr contract you'll be pushing 30. I believe the FAA still has a 30 yr old limit but not sure if that's waiverable??? Still you could go military (any branch) and then roll right into a civilian DOD spot. Had a bunch of friends who did that and then went FAA later on.

So, if it were me, I'd stick with the investment you've going. Won't be long before another hiring round comes up. Just keep at it and I'm sure you'll get in.
 
Last edited:
Velocity173 said:
As far as branch, I'd go Air Force, Navy or Marines. In that order too. Air Force and Navy you'll get a good mix of traffic experience and facility ratings. My brother went AF and now works at a class C tower. USMC is good as well but there's a chance of getting stuck in tower or doing just GCA at a slow base.
Click to expand...
The only counter I have to this is that under the current DoD fiscal outlook, I think you have the greatest opportunity for success and advancement in the Navy versus the AF. Both are good options. I would not bother with the USMC right now as they are standing by to get decimated under the proposed budget (even more so than the Army). Sure, I'm biased, but I have also been watching the personnel cuts across the DoD.
 
Geico266 said:
Join the service and get some hand on skills as an ATC controller. Do 2-4 years and get out. Vets get preference when the FAA hires. Great experience also. :yes:
Click to expand...


Unfortunately, not anymore.
 
FAA only got a fraction of the numbers of new hires they sought. Partly due to the BQ, because they had at least 28,000 apply. Stick it out, I think another bid should come out within a few months.

If you graduated with a CTO try applying to SERCO or Midwest ATC, it'll whet your appetite until the new FAA bid announces. Good luck!
 
MarkZ said:
Unfortunately, not anymore.
Click to expand...

That doesn't sound right. With any Federal hiring, you automatically get points for veteran status. That alone puts you ahead of anyone else with the same level of experience. Maybe they aren't putting any preferential emphasis on past military ATC experience, is that what you were trying to say?
 
Fearless Tower said:
That doesn't sound right. With any Federal hiring, you automatically get points for veteran status. That alone puts you ahead of anyone else with the same level of experience. Maybe they aren't putting any preferential emphasis on past military ATC experience, is that what you were trying to say?
Click to expand...

Head over to stuckmic.com and read their forums, you can see just how many ATC vets didn't make it past the first phase of hiring this last bid. They wanted an OTS hiring it seems. They didn't look at experience, it was just off a 60 question survey. A little less than 2,000 out of 28,000 made it past and then they started looking to make sure people fit the qualifications and onto the AT-SAT.
 
Yeah my friends say the FAA prefers these CTI dudes over prior military these days.
 
Thanks for all of the feedback everyone. I guess I will probably just stick it out for now with the whole ATC thing. I did some reading up on the CTO route, but apparently most CTO towers only want experienced controllers.

Hopefully this whole thing with the new hiring strategy will be resolved and us CTI guys will have a much fairer and more appropriate chance at getting picked up. I just want to work at a slow tower somewhere honestly. I know it can be a stressful job, but it doesn't have to be. I don't care to make the big money necessarily. I just want to have a nice career that pays the bills and gets me through life.
 
PeterJ88 said:
I'm 25. Although I've always been an aviation buff since I was young, I've only ever worked as a server at a restaurant. At the time I started doing it, it was great money (especially as a first job). Unfortunately for me, I've never been quite the go-getter as far as life goes, and so I got complacent. Plus, to add on to it, the eustachian tubes in my ears are more narrow than normal, making ascending and descending in a plane quite painful...and to add onto that, I believe I have a chronic sinus infection which won't seem to go away. I understand there is a surgery to correct the problem with my ears, but I don't know if that'll fix the discomfort I experience.

When I was 20 years old, I heard about the CTI (Collegiate Training Initiative) program for air traffic control. Since I didn't believe I could fly, and it would still be in the aviation field, I went for that and obtained a scholarship. Took the two-year course and graduated 3 years ago. Ever since then I'd been waiting for the FAA to start hiring. On Feb. 10th of this year they opened their application process, and like many other qualified CTI grads, I didn't get past the bio questionnaire.

So here I am. I've contemplated for 2 months now about what I want to do with my life. I cannot think of anything. Any 9-5 job that has to do with sitting at a desk I simply don't think I could bear. Nothing at all interests me, except aircraft and flying. I don't think I'd want to even go for airline pilot. Maybe just flying for a smaller company. Maybe a lesser, decent job. I don't know.

I'm still a server and my income is not great. I have about $3,500-$4,000 saved up to my name. I know it's expensive, but I want to go for the flight training and get my certifications. I've no idea how I'm to go about it, which is why I've come here. Are there certain loans I can obtain? What can I possibly do to attain possibly the only thing I can imagine myself doing with my life?
Click to expand...
You sound like you're almost in the exact same boat as I am. I thought I would be all fat, dumb, and happy with two clear paths to great careers. Now that the FAA has f***ed both of them (why am I even surprised?), I'm kind of in some sort of limbo.

I didn't pass the BioQ either, but my girlfriend did, as well as almost every other girl I know that applied. I'm finishing up my CFI course right now. I would love to get my A&P eventually, but the FAA might think too many white males are involved and change that up too.

I think I'd just like to find a simple flying job and make my stake there. Being a controller would be even better but who knows that this point. I've still got quite a few years before I age-out.

It really just sucks. My grandpa, who retired NWA in the DC-10 back in '95 is frustrated at all the bullsh*t I have to go through. Even my dad can't believe the difference between his effort and mine.

It's all up in the air for me right now.
Geico266 said:
Join the service and get some hand on skills as an ATC controller. Do 2-4 years and get out. Vets get preference when the FAA hires. Great experience also. :yes:
Click to expand...

Velocity173 said:
Yeah my friends say the FAA prefers these CTI dudes over prior military these days.
Click to expand...
Yes, the FAA used to prefer military, but not anymore.
 
How 'bout dispatch? All the responsibilities of an airline captain without the flying ;)
 
Dispatch doesn't sound too bad. Ugh, I only dread having to go back to school after so much school-related investment already :( what does it require time and money-wise?
 
PeterJ88 said:
Dispatch doesn't sound too bad. Ugh, I only dread having to go back to school after so much school-related investment already :( what does it require time and money-wise?
Click to expand...

Most are 5-6 weeks and between $4,000-$5,000 including exam fees and hotels. I'm currently enrolled in a long distance learning one that is only a 6 day residency but you have to be proactive about studying yourself before.
 
25 is a critical age in a young mans life and judging by your posts here, I have my doubts if you will "man up" when (not if) the going gets tough.

If I am in a squeeze in the air with my family onboard and I need vectors or any other services, I certainly would not want a lackadaisical controller on the radio with me.

There is no such thing as sliding through life. You are either growing or you're dying. And IMHO, you're just whining.
 
PeterJ88 said:
I just want to have a nice career that pays the bills and gets me through life.
Click to expand...

If you have the fortitude, you can make equitable pay in another career field in the private sector. I say this not to discourage you but to warn you. Controllers work shift work, my schedule is Thursday Friday off, two evening shifts, a 9 hour turnaround to three day shifts. That's the easy trainee schedule, they can and do get more jacked up from there. Before transferring, I had Sunday Monday off, three evening shifts, one day shift, and many weeks a midnight shift after the day shift. Fatigue is a very real concern. Expect to work nothing better than Tuesday Wednesday or Wednesday Thursday off for quite some time. You will miss most family holidays, as well as your children's events due to traffic and staffing. It's part of the job.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Wonder if it is because they generally get fewer years out if the former military guys.
Click to expand...

Not sure. I think it has more to do with a degree producing program and politics. Personally don't think they're really concerned about prior experience. My brother was just telling me that his facility is 50/50 civilian & prior military. He was actually saying in recent years theyve been getting mostly transfers and not new controllers. Like most things it comes down to timing...and how well you answer questions on some random test.
 
Jaybird180 said:
25 is a critical age in a young mans life and judging by your posts here, I have my doubts if you will "man up" when (not if) the going gets tough.

If I am in a squeeze in the air with my family onboard and I need vectors or any other services, I certainly would not want a lackadaisical controller on the radio with me.

There is no such thing as sliding through life. You are either growing or you're dying. And IMHO, you're just whining.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your concern, but it is not needed. When I get myself going, I'm a rather competent and intelligent human being. My only problem is the "getting started" thing. I scored a 100 on my AT-SAT and a 95 and 96 on my nonradar and radar simulation exams respectively. When I work somewhere, once I'm there I'm good to go and am responsible with my duties.

Just because I'm not motivated or driven, doesn't mean I'm incapable of knowing how/what to do and when, when on the job.
 
You're not motivated or driven? Generally that's what the FAA is looking for. Your attitude is more like some old guy who's retired from the FAA and now wants to work in a sleepy tower because the old brain can't keep up with the traffic any longer. You're young, you should be wanting to go out move some planes around. Handling the stress is a big discrimator in getting selected for this profession.

I just find your outlook on doing ATC bizarre for someone your age. Good luck though.
 
Go to doctor, get ears- sinus fixed. Enlist in navy-airforce and go to flight training. Son of friend went and got aeronautical eng. degree, enlisted in Air Force, flew U2 s for eight years, retired as lt. Col. Now flys for major. Had No trouble getting an airline position, left seat.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Go to doctor, get ears- sinus fixed. Enlist in navy-airforce and go to flight training. Son of friend went and got aeronautical eng. degree, enlisted in Air Force, flew U2 s for eight years, retired as lt. Col. Now flys for major. Had No trouble getting an airline position, left seat.
Click to expand...

just saying....you don't get "hired" into any left seat at an airline. Left seat is strictly based on seniority.

To the OP> Sounds like you need to do something else with your life. Lazy unmotivated people generally don't fit well in this industry.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Go to doctor, get ears- sinus fixed. Enlist in navy-airforce and go to flight training. Son of friend went and got aeronautical eng. degree, enlisted in Air Force, flew U2 s for eight years, retired as lt. Col. Now flys for major. Had No trouble getting an airline position, left seat.
Click to expand...


Semantics but very important - don't enlist if you want to fly. Must be an officer to fly.
 
Step 1: Find a job in your chosen field. Sweep floors if you have to. Just get your foot in the door.

Step 2: Work harder and have a better attitude than anyone else around you. Be positive. Never, ever complain, even when others do. Be AWESOME at whatever job you have.

Step 3: Take advantage of opportunities that come your way. Since so few people are capable of doing Step 2, you'll stand out and will grow in your career rather quickly.

Step 4: Constantly educate yourself (read books, find mentors, go to school if necessary) and keep repeating Steps 2 and 3 until you've earned your dream job and/or you're making enough money to do anything you want.

I'm not sure whether you can follow those steps or not, but that's the formula I've seen work over and over for people. It works in any industry.

My only other advice is to stay away from debt. Debt limits your options in life.

Good luck!
 
Well said Texas, and it holds true for ATC developmental trainees, if you substitute sweeping floors with studying.
 
MarkZ said:
Unfortunately, not anymore.
Click to expand...

Personally I would not use the word "unfortunately"....

After Vietnam, veterans got preference at the US Post Office... and we now see how that total fiaco worked out...:mad2::mad2::mad:.......:sad:
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top