I messed up - night approach

WannFly

Final Approach
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Priyo
As we are approaching fall, i thought i should get night current. instead of just doing 3 around the pattern which i have done before, albeit not as much as i want to, i wanted to do it a little differently - incorporate a XC.

First one earlier this week, went to a podunk airport 55 miles away, landed there right after sunset, took of right before end of civil twilight and came back to fargo to ensure i am getting used to the transition time of dusk to night etc. went well apart from a gazillion bugs i picked up.

note to self - avoid an airport next to a lake at dusk

yesterday, went to St. Cloud about 142 nm from here, landed right at sunset, met @Sinistar , took off right before end of civil twilight back to fargo via AXN. pretty nice flight, until i approached fargo. approaching fargo, i was tracking Moorhead , MN and Fargo rny 31 to get myself situated, the city lights doesnt help, way too bright and runway lights turned down. there were 6-7 UND planes in the pattern or approaching fargo for night currency (around 2100), couple of Fedex heavy departing from opposite runway, the usual at fargo at that time.

i was cleared to join left downwind for 18 and i tracked rny 31 to ensure i am on the right path. then i turned downwind and things went out of my hands, as i turned downwind, its pitch dark out north, i lost the runway, i was #2 to land and by the time i figured out where the approach lights were, i was on top of them. i figured this is not going to work, before i could key in, tower came on and asked me to fly on a heading of 090 and turn left heading 270 to join the base. i complied, turning right from my flight path and then making another left turn got me pretty disoriented and i realized i am not at the top of my game, so abandoned my plan of doing another couple pattern work and called it good. i flared high, floated quite a bit .... i was pretty much back in my student days apart from the full stall touchdown that i somehow managed.

looking back, there were no loss of separation, i didnt violate any FAR's , and making it a full stop was the right call to make. I did call tower later from the ground and apologized for the mess i created, they were super cool about it (i think they are used to me making mess :p)

still trying to figure out why it happened, here are possible causes and remediation plan:

  • testing out a new O2 set up (no, not a handheld can), i was at 9500 going to STC and on O2 with pulse oximeter reading 95-96% the entire time. coming back at 8500, same set up. about 30 mins before my landing i started getting a slight headache - too much O2? not sure. I have spent some time on the ground with the O2, so this is not the first time i tried it.
  • May be my interior lights were turned up too much and when i looked outside in the black hole, my eyes were still not used to the darkness leading to little disorientation ?
  • I should have focused more on the instruments when i turned downwind or after Tower asked me to turn.
  • should have asked for a practice approach on ILS 18 from FAF and avoid all these drama
  • Clearly i need more night time, time to get hold of a CFI and do some more night work.
what does POA think?
 
  • Clearly i need more night time, time to get hold of a CFI and do some more night work.

Don't have any answers for you, but wanted to thank you for posting. I'm not night current, and haven't flown at night in many years. Was thinking about just doing some pattern work on my own as it got increasingly dark one evening/night at my home airport, but your post helped put that idea to bed. I'm going with my CFI. Thanks.
 
If you have a GPS, always load an approach for increased situational awareness.
excellent point ... just didnt think about it :( .. another should have. in fact, my last approach was on ILS 18... even the radios were tuned :(
 
excellent point ... just didnt think about it :( .. another should have. in fact, my last approach was on ILS 18... even the radios were tuned :(
Another tip is do a short round robbin flight to get night current. Anyone can stay in the pattern at their home airport and be current but not proficient. Pick 2 other airports to fly to, enter the pattern and do a full stop. It’s more challenging than just staying in the pattern and doing your 3 bounces.
 
If you have a GPS, always load an approach for increased situational awareness.
I forget where I learned this from but I've been doing that for the last few months and it works great. Even just having the localizer dialed in helps
 
Another tip is do a short round robbin flight to get night current. Anyone can stay in the pattern at their home airport and be current but not proficient. Pick 2 other airports to fly to, enter the pattern and do a full stop. It’s more challenging than just staying in the pattern and doing your 3 bounces.

no doubt its much more challenging and thats what i am trying to incorporate, not only get night current, but proficient by incorporating night cross country. i have done the 3 bounces in the home drone before, that didnt give me enough confidence to haul around passengers at night. i will give it another shot on Monday and fly a few practices approaches from IAF, that will take me out in enough darkness, or may be hit Jamestown and back
 
Last night flight I did was my first at my current home airport. The only time I landed worse I did 25 AMUs worth of damage.
 
Just a reminder: for night currency, full stop landings are required. T-N-Gs are not sufficient. Why? :dunno:

-Skip
 
i wanted to do it a little differently - incorporate a XC
Yeah... I quickly learned that the whole "3 full stops in the pattern" really doesn't prepare you for real night aviating.. which, honestly, might as well be IMC

its pitch dark out north, i lost the runway, i was #2 to land and by the time i figured out where the approach lights were, i was on top of them. i figured this is not going to work
BTW, good for recognizing that and despite the pitch black night staying coordinated in your turns, etc... many people would dive for the lights or lose their coordination.. the last thing we need is to have another hole in the ground!
 
I think you hit the nail on the head - look at your heading indicator to make sure your downwind is parallel to the runway. I usually don't fly at night, but I have found that runway lights at regular intensity are easy to see if I know where to look. Perhaps in a similar situation ask the tower to turn up the lights...

And, of course, there's that whole low-wing issue... ;-)
 
... I will give it another shot on Monday and fly a few practices approaches from IAF, that will take me out in enough darkness, or may be hit Jameson and back

That's how I read it the first time... lol... glad I was wrong!
 
As we are approaching fall, i thought i should get night current. instead of just doing 3 around the pattern which i have done before, albeit not as much as i want to, i wanted to do it a little differently - incorporate a XC.

First one earlier this week, went to a podunk airport 55 miles away, landed there right after sunset, took of right before end of civil twilight and came back to fargo to ensure i am getting used to the transition time of dusk to night etc. went well apart from a gazillion bugs i picked up.

note to self - avoid an airport next to a lake at dusk

yesterday, went to St. Cloud about 142 nm from here, landed right at sunset, met @Sinistar , took off right before end of civil twilight back to fargo via AXN. pretty nice flight, until i approached fargo. approaching fargo, i was tracking Moorhead , MN and Fargo rny 31 to get myself situated, the city lights doesnt help, way too bright and runway lights turned down. there were 6-7 UND planes in the pattern or approaching fargo for night currency (around 2100), couple of Fedex heavy departing from opposite runway, the usual at fargo at that time.

i was cleared to join left downwind for 18 and i tracked rny 31 to ensure i am on the right path. then i turned downwind and things went out of my hands, as i turned downwind, its pitch dark out north, i lost the runway, i was #2 to land and by the time i figured out where the approach lights were, i was on top of them. i figured this is not going to work, before i could key in, tower came on and asked me to fly on a heading of 090 and turn left heading 270 to join the base. i complied, turning right from my flight path and then making another left turn got me pretty disoriented and i realized i am not at the top of my game, so abandoned my plan of doing another couple pattern work and called it good. i flared high, floated quite a bit .... i was pretty much back in my student days apart from the full stall touchdown that i somehow managed.

looking back, there were no loss of separation, i didnt violate any FAR's , and making it a full stop was the right call to make. I did call tower later from the ground and apologized for the mess i created, they were super cool about it (i think they are used to me making mess :p)

still trying to figure out why it happened, here are possible causes and remediation plan:

  • testing out a new O2 set up (no, not a handheld can), i was at 9500 going to STC and on O2 with pulse oximeter reading 95-96% the entire time. coming back at 8500, same set up. about 30 mins before my landing i started getting a slight headache - too much O2? not sure. I have spent some time on the ground with the O2, so this is not the first time i tried it.
  • May be my interior lights were turned up too much and when i looked outside in the black hole, my eyes were still not used to the darkness leading to little disorientation ?
  • I should have focused more on the instruments when i turned downwind or after Tower asked me to turn.
  • should have asked for a practice approach on ILS 18 from FAF and avoid all these drama
  • Clearly i need more night time, time to get hold of a CFI and do some more night work.
what does POA think?


Like others said, always back a visual up with a approach if you can, airline guys have landed on taxiways during the daytime too.

I don’t think your spo2 was the issue, I think it was just a lack of night experience, you lived, you learned, go forth and keep at it.

I’d also keep practicing night ops without using instruments as too much of a crutch, VFR and IFR are two different talents, one is NOT better than the other and BOTH require practice.
 
A more confident pilot would be pretty sure the tower turned the lights off on them, BTDT. :rolleyes:
 
Perhaps in a similar situation ask the tower to turn up the lights...
i would do it if i was the only one around.. but with about 7 in the pattern i am not sure if thats a good idea or not, but never hurts to ask, i could have also asked for vectors to base... in fact the moment i lost the runway, i should have called tower as asked for vectors.... good lesson learned.

look at your heading indicator to make sure your downwind is parallel to the runway.

another great point, i do that even during day ops, not sure why i didnt do it last night :(
 
If you want all of your take-off/landings to count for currency, even the take-off must be before civil twilight. So if you leave your destination xc airport before civil twilight you need to do 3 take-offs as well as full-stop landings after that.
 
If you want all of your take-off/landings to count for currency, even the take-off must be before civil twilight. So if you leave your destination xc airport before civil twilight you need to do 3 take-offs as well as full-stop landings after that.

Yah, that was the plan after landing at fargo, next time.
 
Yeah... I quickly learned that the whole "3 full stops in the pattern" really doesn't prepare you for real night aviating.. which, honestly, might as well be IMC
I never found that to be the case. I didn't previously mind night flying, but the Mooney is terribly dark. I really need to do something about that. Add it to the list.
 
And if you don’t have that but do use an ipad, turn on runway extended centerlines on the chart. Very helpful for situational awareness.

I'm embarassed by how much turning on extended centerlines helps me plan to enter a pattern in day VFR at a new airport... and I thought I was actually pretty GOOD at visualizing stuff in my head.
 
I'm embarassed by how much turning on extended centerlines helps me plan to enter a pattern in day VFR at a new airport... and I thought I was actually pretty GOOD at visualizing stuff in my head.

The trick is finding a landmark big enough to see and straight out enough to lay a mental line on. At some airports there’s just nothing useful. :)
 
I'm embarassed by how much turning on extended centerlines helps me plan to enter a pattern in day VFR at a new airport... and I thought I was actually pretty GOOD at visualizing stuff in my head.
There is a reason every air carrier I have worked for requires every landing to have something loaded/tuned to backup landings. If it’s required for people that do it for a living it’s not all that surprising you would find it at least a little useful
 
As we are approaching fall, i thought i should get night current. instead of just doing 3 around the pattern which i have done before, albeit not as much as i want to, i wanted to do it a little differently - incorporate a XC.

First one earlier this week, went to a podunk airport 55 miles away, landed there right after sunset, took of right before end of civil twilight and came back to fargo to ensure i am getting used to the transition time of dusk to night etc. went well apart from a gazillion bugs i picked up.

note to self - avoid an airport next to a lake at dusk

yesterday, went to St. Cloud about 142 nm from here, landed right at sunset, met @Sinistar , took off right before end of civil twilight back to fargo via AXN. pretty nice flight, until i approached fargo. approaching fargo, i was tracking Moorhead , MN and Fargo rny 31 to get myself situated, the city lights doesnt help, way too bright and runway lights turned down. there were 6-7 UND planes in the pattern or approaching fargo for night currency (around 2100), couple of Fedex heavy departing from opposite runway, the usual at fargo at that time.

i was cleared to join left downwind for 18 and i tracked rny 31 to ensure i am on the right path. then i turned downwind and things went out of my hands, as i turned downwind, its pitch dark out north, i lost the runway, i was #2 to land and by the time i figured out where the approach lights were, i was on top of them. i figured this is not going to work, before i could key in, tower came on and asked me to fly on a heading of 090 and turn left heading 270 to join the base. i complied, turning right from my flight path and then making another left turn got me pretty disoriented and i realized i am not at the top of my game, so abandoned my plan of doing another couple pattern work and called it good. i flared high, floated quite a bit .... i was pretty much back in my student days apart from the full stall touchdown that i somehow managed.

looking back, there were no loss of separation, i didnt violate any FAR's , and making it a full stop was the right call to make. I did call tower later from the ground and apologized for the mess i created, they were super cool about it (i think they are used to me making mess :p)

still trying to figure out why it happened, here are possible causes and remediation plan:

  • testing out a new O2 set up (no, not a handheld can), i was at 9500 going to STC and on O2 with pulse oximeter reading 95-96% the entire time. coming back at 8500, same set up. about 30 mins before my landing i started getting a slight headache - too much O2? not sure. I have spent some time on the ground with the O2, so this is not the first time i tried it.
  • May be my interior lights were turned up too much and when i looked outside in the black hole, my eyes were still not used to the darkness leading to little disorientation ?
  • I should have focused more on the instruments when i turned downwind or after Tower asked me to turn.
  • should have asked for a practice approach on ILS 18 from FAF and avoid all these drama
  • Clearly i need more night time, time to get hold of a CFI and do some more night work.
what does POA think?
You were tired. Expected to be seeing the runway earlier than you did and when you didn't you immediately transitioned from being ahead of the plane to behind it.

It doesn't sound like you overdid the o2.

As I get closer and closer to the airport, especially at night I continue to zoom in the gadget so it adds another reference to getting the downwind right. I don't like to enter the downwind if I can't see the runway. Extended runway centerline are nice and I think I have mine come on a bit farther out.

FWIW...no fog when I landed, but drove through some an hour later driving home. And man was it dark out. That runway was a black hole last night. Thankfully just bugs and no coyotes or deer. My night landing was high and turned into a short field variant of some kind. I knew I was tired and shut it down and shot the bull with my cfi instead :) Good meetup, landed within 60 seconds of each other!
 
As a practical matter when traveling at night...especially to an unfamiliar airport, there is no harm in flying a published approach if possible. It is guaranteed to keep you out of the weeds and pointed down the runway. Even when I fly to my home drome in the central NY hills at night, SYR assumes I'm going to fly the approach, not a visual. I like that thinking. The VFR approach to the airport at night can be challenging, and circling can be potentially risky with surrounding ridges. Flying the approach takes all the stress and mystery out of arrival.
 
If you want all of your take-off/landings to count for currency, even the take-off must be before civil twilight. So if you leave your destination xc airport before civil twilight you need to do 3 take-offs as well as full-stop landings after that.
I think you meant "even the take-off must be after civil twilight", but this is still not quite correct. Civil twilight can end before the applicable time where you can log a T/O or landing for night currency, which is 1 hour after sunset. So if you leave the airport before the sun has been down for a full hour, you still need to do 3 more take-offs as well as full-stop landings after that.

(Unless, of course, you're doing your night currency run before sunrise, in which case you have to do your last landing before 1 hour before sunrise.)
 
I think you meant "even the take-off must be after civil twilight", but this is still not quite correct. Civil twilight can end before the applicable time where you can log a T/O or landing for night currency, which is 1 hour after sunset. So if you leave the airport before the sun has been down for a full hour, you still need to do 3 more take-offs as well as full-stop landings after that.

(Unless, of course, you're doing your night currency run before sunrise, in which case you have to do your last landing before 1 hour before sunrise.)
Yep. The FAA definition of night is civil twilight. "Night" currency uses different parameters.
 
In a lot of outlying airports it gets dark in a hurry. I flew from RIC to CJR one night and there's a lot of nothing out there. I asked for the instrument approach.

If you ever suddenly lose the lights on the field: CLIMB.

Ahh so you too have forgotten to key up the mic again while doing multiple approaches. LOL.

Great advice though. Altitude is life at night. Don’t dawdle looking for things. Go up. Now.
 
Ahh so you too have forgotten to key up the mic again while doing multiple approaches. LOL.
No, if you suddenly lose the sight of the runway lights, you may find that the reasons is that some obstruction is between you and them. The runway light timer gives a 30 seconds of blinking or the like before they shutdown.
 
No, if you suddenly lose the sight of the runway lights, you may find that the reasons is that some obstruction is between you and them. The runway light timer gives a 30 seconds of blinking or the like before they shutdown.

None of them around here do. They just turn off.
 
At night, once on downwind it’s a good idea to locate the airport beacon. That can help you maintain a visualization on where you are on downwind, along with other cues. Also, you are only on downwind for a few minutes. Once established just keeping the wings level ought to kick you out in approximately the right area, barring stiff cross winds.

Others have mentioned using the iPad for additional help with situational awareness. Once in the pattern at night I usually turn mine off. It’s too distracting, and looking down to a screen and then back out the window can be disorienting.
 
I think as someone who has never made a mistake:

You suck! Never fly at night again!

But as your friend in Cherokeeness, you learned from it and you and you're airplane are still in one piece. Try it again with your new found awareness. ;)
 
No, if you suddenly lose the sight of the runway lights, you may find that the reasons is that some obstruction is between you and them. The runway light timer gives a 30 seconds of blinking or the like before they shutdown.
They just went of on me last week on downwind at KTCL. No flashing, just OFF. I had been cautioned about it so I was ready and turned them right back on.
 
every air carrier I have worked for requires every landing to have something loaded/tuned to backup landings
Aren't there airports in the Bahamas / Caribbean and elsewhere in the world that simply don't have any kind of approach procedure? Strictly visual only?
 
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