I landed out

steingar

steingar

Taxi to Parking
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steingar
I'm based at a local Delta (a rather busy one) and have been having radio troubles for some time. Aircraft is scheduled to go back to the avionics shop next week. I thought I'd take her up last night to shake out some cobwebs, haven't flown since Oshkosh.

I've mostly been relying on my number 2 comm, comm 1 has been useless for some while. I used it to talk to ground, scratchy but doable. Used it to talk to tower. Got going. Once airborne I couldn't hear tower at all. This is new, usually I can hear fine but can't transmit.

I was going to fly to a couple local strips and do a couple landings, my first one was so bad I turned it into a touch and go after the second bounce (Mooney pilots will know what I mean, I think). Decided I was done for the night, time to get back home. Called my home tower 10 miles out, no problem.

I go to report the midfield downwind and I can't hear a thing from tower. Comm2 is fragged, comm1 is now useless. I have my handheld out, start playing with it when a little voice in my head reminds me that low and slow on the downwind is no place to play with radios.

I decide to get predictable and continue my down wind as I suck up the gear and flaps. I fly to a local airport to:

1) land
2) try and sort out the aircraft
3) try and sort myself out

Radio problems are stressful, especially in controlled airspace. They can get the better of you. Time to land, cool down, and figure things out.

So I land, far better than my last one, which isn't saying much. I park the aircraft and walk over to the FBO, where a young man is sitting on a bench. He's a CFI waiting for his student, who's doing his first solo landings, I saw him as I was coming in. I tell him about my plight, and he offers to fly me back to my home base (they're based there as well, in a hangar near mine).

I take him up on it. I hate hate hate leaving my nice aircraft tied down at a strange airport, but with the way my comms are I'll have a tough time getting back to my home drome. Easy enough to get it and fly to where they'll finally be fixed (hopefully, I honestly don't hold out high hopes).

First time I've left an aircraft in a very, very long while.
 
steingar said:
I'm based at a local Delta (a rather busy one) and have been having radio troubles for some time. Aircraft is scheduled to go back to the avionics shop next week. I thought I'd take her up last night to shake out some cobwebs, haven't flown since Oshkosh.

I've mostly been relying on my number 2 comm, comm 1 has been useless for some while. I used it to talk to ground, scratchy but doable. Used it to talk to tower. Got going. Once airborne I couldn't hear tower at all. This is new, usually I can hear fine but can't transmit.

I was going to fly to a couple local strips and do a couple landings, my first one was so bad I turned it into a touch and go after the second bounce (Mooney pilots will know what I mean, I think). Decided I was done for the night, time to get back home. Called my home tower 10 miles out, no problem.

I go to report the midfield downwind and I can't hear a thing from tower. Comm2 is fragged, comm1 is now useless. I have my handheld out, start playing with it when a little voice in my head reminds me that low and slow on the downwind is no place to play with radios.

I decide to get predictable and continue my down wind as I suck up the gear and flaps. I fly to a local airport to:

1) land
2) try and sort out the aircraft
3) try and sort myself out

Radio problems are stressful, especially in controlled airspace. They can get the better of you. Time to land, cool down, and figure things out.

So I land, far better than my last one, which isn't saying much. I park the aircraft and walk over to the FBO, where a young man is sitting on a bench. He's a CFI waiting for his student, who's doing his first solo landings, I saw him as I was coming in. I tell him about my plight, and he offers to fly me back to my home base (they're based there as well, in a hangar near mine).

I take him up on it. I hate hate hate leaving my nice aircraft tied down at a strange airport, but with the way my comms are I'll have a tough time getting back to my home drome. Easy enough to get it and fly to where they'll finally be fixed (hopefully, I honestly don't hold out high hopes).

First time I've left an aircraft in a very, very long while.
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A: Sorry to hear this happened to you.

B: I think you made the correct decision.
 
Glad you made it safely. As an avionics student, I have a couple of ideas, but I'm certainly not qualified to diagnose the problem. However . . . I'd love to hear what the issue turns oit to be after it's checked by a tech.
 
I've told this story before, but:

On my first Solo XC I lost the alternator and things got really quiet. I landed at the nearest non-towered airport to my Class D airport, kept the engine running, and phoned the tower to tell them I was coming in NORDO. They reviewed the light signals with me, and said cross midfield at x-thousand, we'll get you in.

Back on the ground some other guys at the school were like "That was you? Tower told us to keep an eye out for you."

Lesson... keep that tower number programmed in the phone, it comes in handy from time to time.
 
Thanks for the story Michael. Definitely a good call.

I also hate leaving my plane outside for really any amount of time unless I'm flying it... but then I have to remind myself that there are tons of flight school planes that sit outside forever and some of them are even in pretty good shape, so your plane will be okay. We'd all rather it be outside and safe rather than see you or the plane hurt in anyway shape or form.
 
I carry a hand held also. I have a spare headset already plugged in, ready to go. Turn power on, put headset on and talk
 
What Bill said, good job. Using a handheld in a noisy airplane is hard. I had to do it once and it was barely audible. Downwind is no place to be figuring out how to make it work.

Depending on the circumstances, I might have landed and called the tower on the phone to explain the situation. It's happened at my local Delta a few times, and they seem to have been cooperative about clearing planes to land so they can get back home.
 
And here I thought you were going to pull a @tonycondon and land in a corn field. Next time do a proper land out so we can grade you on your ability to pull the wings off and put it in a trailer in under 5 minutes.

Leaving your airplane elsewhere is always tough, but it was a good call. Another suggestion - getting your radios fixed is a great idea, but you might also want to invest in a handheld and some means of using it through your headset.

Keep on practicing the landings. Greasers are possible in Mooneys. I used to do them in N7785M regularly.
 
Don't think Bonanzas have radio problems. :crazy:

Oh I keed! Good decision, your plane will be fine.
 
Old radios are like looking through an old windshield, you can live with it but as soon as you have a new one installed you wonder why you waited so long.
 
Good on you, Michael! Sometimes you have to take the least convenient plan of action to make a safe outcome.
 
Sounds like good decision making all the way around. Glad you & the airplane are OK.

Are you planning to practice some with the handheld to get used to it so you can use it when you need it? Maybe you can get it setup, and then use it to bring your plane home? (Which reminds me, my new handheld from Christmas is still sitting the box. I need to get going on that as well.)

John
 
kc4wsd said:
Glad you made it safely. As an avionics student, I have a couple of ideas, but I'm certainly not qualified to diagnose the problem. However . . . I'd love to hear what the issue turns oit to be after it's checked by a tech.
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The issue is I went to the wrong guy to have a new one installed. Number 2 comm is brand spanking new. Since it was put in I've had troubles with both. My handheld was out and ready to go. I thought I had it programmed to the correct frequency, so when I started having troubles on downwind I took off my headset and listened to it. Silence. I started futzing with it, and that's when breaking the chain occurred to me. I probably had it dialed into the incorrect frequency.
I thought about phoning the tower and doing the light gun thing, but I would just have the same damn trouble getting out again. Better just to leave it. I'm working on getting it into a hangar during its stay, we'll see how that goes. I know lots of flight school airplanes stay tied up outside all the time. Then again, they look it. There are thunderstorms forecast for the weekend, and they can bring hail. My airplane is too nice for hail.

jsstevens said:
Are you planning to practice some with the handheld to get used to it so you can use it when you need it? Maybe you can get it setup, and then use it to bring your plane home? (Which reminds me, my new handheld from Christmas is still sitting the box. I need to get going on that as well.)

John
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I thought I had it out and set, but I suspect in the evening light I had the wrong frequency. What I would say is that in the landing pattern is the wrong place to fool around with your handheld, better to leave, get it sorted at a safe altitude, and come back.
 
Excellent thinking on the wing here. Well Done!

Getting the handheld straightened out is all good but suggest taking a step back and consider the decision(s) to fly with a funky com1.

Two radios is good backup but flying with one is flying in backup mode. It can be challenging to fully shift gears and to treat that handheld has backup 1. First order of biz was perhaps fixing com1. I’ve fallen in that little silk trap before.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
Couple questions...do the radios use separate antennas? Are these antennas located on the top or bottom of the airplane? Often, comm 1 is on top, comm 2 is on the bottom. If that's the case, it's very likely that your airplane was simply blocking the signal, and a little farther along the downwind you'd have been fine again.

Good decision making overall, but sometimes better decisions can be made with better knowledge (or at least better options may be available).
 
Absolutely agree that downwind is the wrong place to futz with it.
 
steingar said:
I'm based at a local Delta (a rather busy one) and have been having radio troubles for some time. Aircraft is scheduled to go back to the avionics shop next week. I thought I'd take her up last night to shake out some cobwebs, haven't flown since Oshkosh.

I've mostly been relying on my number 2 comm, comm 1 has been useless for some while. I used it to talk to ground, scratchy but doable. Used it to talk to tower. Got going. Once airborne I couldn't hear tower at all. This is new, usually I can hear fine but can't transmit.

I was going to fly to a couple local strips and do a couple landings, my first one was so bad I turned it into a touch and go after the second bounce (Mooney pilots will know what I mean, I think). Decided I was done for the night, time to get back home. Called my home tower 10 miles out, no problem.

I go to report the midfield downwind and I can't hear a thing from tower. Comm2 is fragged, comm1 is now useless. I have my handheld out, start playing with it when a little voice in my head reminds me that low and slow on the downwind is no place to play with radios.

I decide to get predictable and continue my down wind as I suck up the gear and flaps. I fly to a local airport to:

1) land
2) try and sort out the aircraft
3) try and sort myself out

Radio problems are stressful, especially in controlled airspace. They can get the better of you. Time to land, cool down, and figure things out.

So I land, far better than my last one, which isn't saying much. I park the aircraft and walk over to the FBO, where a young man is sitting on a bench. He's a CFI waiting for his student, who's doing his first solo landings, I saw him as I was coming in. I tell him about my plight, and he offers to fly me back to my home base (they're based there as well, in a hangar near mine).

I take him up on it. I hate hate hate leaving my nice aircraft tied down at a strange airport, but with the way my comms are I'll have a tough time getting back to my home drome. Easy enough to get it and fly to where they'll finally be fixed (hopefully, I honestly don't hold out high hopes).

First time I've left an aircraft in a very, very long while.
Click to expand...

Good call on not fiddling around with the radios to much then which requires head in cockpit. If you had it to do over again would you consider rocking your wings, flashing lights and looking at the Tower for a green light?
 
Eric Gleason said:
What Bill said, good job. Using a handheld in a noisy airplane is hard. I had to do it once and it was barely audible. Downwind is no place to be figuring out how to make it work.

Depending on the circumstances, I might have landed and called the tower on the phone to explain the situation. It's happened at my local Delta a few times, and they seem to have been cooperative about clearing planes to land so they can get back home.
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They still have light signals, do they not? BTW, if you have a handheld, get the adapter to plug in your headset. Mine is useless without it.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
They still have light signals, do they not? BTW, if you have a handheld, get the adapter to plug in your headset. Mine is useless without it.
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Yes they do, I've been on the receiving end of them. And yes, I could have called the tower, asked for them and landed that way. My problem was I was going to fly out again next week, and what do I do if the comms turn flaky again? My real problem is the comms work sporadically, so its enough to lull you into a trap. I have cancelled a couple fights over this, though.
 
steingar said:
Yes they do, I've been on the receiving end of them. And yes, I could have called the tower, asked for them and landed that way. My problem was I was going to fly out again next week, and what do I do if the comms turn flaky again? My real problem is the comms work sporadically, so its enough to lull you into a trap. I have cancelled a couple fights over this, though.
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I have a similar problem with my crappy old Narco's. Comm 1 xmits continuously so it stays off. I'm down to a Comm 2 that isn't terribly reliable. I'm in line at the avionics shop for new radios but it'll still be atleast a month before I'm in there.

Keep in mind you can always squawk 7600 if you have to. Additionally maybe try to figure out your portable radio on the ground. Some even have plugs you can put your headset straight into the handheld so it's just like the plane radio (just weaker). If you get that all sorted beforehand you *should* be okay.
 
Sure, but if you know there's a problem there's no reason not to land somewhere and ask for their help coming in NORDO. I wouldn't bust airspace and circle around waiting for them to figure out to use the light gun unless I really had to. Call ahead and they'll likely pull out the light gun. They may also just look for you and route other traffic around you.

A couple of months ago when I thought my alternator was failing and needed to RTB, I asked tower to have the light gun handy in case my radios went dead. They just cleared me to land and made room for me.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
I have a similar problem with my crappy old Narco's. Comm 1 xmits continuously so it stays off. I'm down to a Comm 2 that isn't terribly reliable. I'm in line at the avionics shop for new radios but it'll still be atleast a month before I'm in there.

Keep in mind you can always squawk 7600 if you have to. Additionally maybe try to figure out your portable radio on the ground. Some even have plugs you can put your headset straight into the handheld so it's just like the plane radio (just weaker). If you get that all sorted beforehand you *should* be okay.
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I was actually playing with it after I landed, which is why I thought I had it set to the wrong frequency. I probably should have had it out and set from the get go. What really steams me about all this is its a brand spanking new radio that cost me big bucks that I'm having so much trouble with.

Keep in mind that squawking 7600 won't do you that much good on downwind. I honestly don't even know if my tower has enough equipment to see it. I've seen ones that don't. My old tower had no more than a pair of binoculars and a radio.

Eric Gleason said:
Sure, but if you know there's a problem there's no reason not to land somewhere and ask for their help coming in NORDO. I wouldn't bust airspace and circle around waiting for them to figure out to use the light gun unless I really had to. Call ahead and they'll likely pull out the light gun. They may also just look for you and route other traffic around you.

A couple of months ago when I thought my alternator was failing and needed to RTB, I asked tower to have the light gun handy in case my radios went dead. They just cleared me to land and made room for me.
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Yeah, this really did run through my mind (didn't help that I left my phone in my hangar). I could go back tonight and fly it back in that way. But I think I'll leave it. Again, it's next flight is to the avionics shop. Why go back into controlled airspace with balky radios? Oh yeah, it would be nice to get my airplane out of those storms. But I bet I can get it into a hangar this weekend, and even if not plenty of storm forecasts turn out wrong anyway.
 
One time I was flying from KAPC to KSAC, and my comm started going very bad just after I took off. I was kind of a frequent flyer between the two at the time so the controllers recognized me. KAPC tower said they would call ahead to KSAC to expect a NORDO aircraft arriving and to expect light signals. The problem though was a bad headset and I sorted that out before even leaving KAPC's airspace.
 
I am not second guessing what you did Michael. This is really more a question. If I am reading this right, you called the tower so you had clearance. I assume from you being on downwind you had an expected runway. My first thought was squawk 7600 and continue the approach with eyes wide open. Would that be a violation? Maybe so because you hadnt been "cleared to land".
 
EDIT --- I just read through the entire thread. Looks like I was 13 posts too late with my observation. Nevermind....

I'm not going to second-guess your decision, you handled the situation in a manner you were comfortable with. You'll go get your airplane another day, get it fixed, and everything will be fine. But, I will make the following observation:

You carry a handheld, that's good -- but you were not able to use it comfortably in this situation, that's a problem. Whether you need a headset adapter, or just need to have better familiarity with the handheld, or both, you need to address those issues. The next time you need to use that handheld it might be a more serious situation with fewer options at your disposal.

Just food for thought - (from a guy that doesn't fly with a handheld :eek: -- I suppose I should).
 
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steingar said:
Yes they do, I've been on the receiving end of them. And yes, I could have called the tower, asked for them and landed that way. My problem was I was going to fly out again next week, and what do I do if the comms turn flaky again? My real problem is the comms work sporadically, so its enough to lull you into a trap. I have cancelled a couple fights over this, though.
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I really dislike intermittent electronics. However, if both of them appear to be flaky, look for a common denominator, such as your audio [intercom] panel.
 
Squawk 7600, flash your landing light, wag your wings. The tower will get the message and then say oh boy, I get to use the light gun. Then they go dust it off and review the little placard on the back...let's see, is it a steady green or a flashing green or is it an alternating red and green followed by a steady green...?

Make the controller's day. He may think that he saved your life.
 
Mike Smith said:
I am not second guessing what you did Michael. This is really more a question. If I am reading this right, you called the tower so you had clearance. I assume from you being on downwind you had an expected runway. My first thought was squawk 7600 and continue the approach with eyes wide open. Would that be a violation? Maybe so because you hadnt been "cleared to land".
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91.129 (d) (2)
 
One word. Cell phone..

I have the numbers in my contacts list for most towers I go to, as well numbers for center and all the approach/departures I visit. Also all clearance deliveries to get IFR from the rural landing strips if I am unable to depart VFR and get clearance in the air.

If I have to use my phone I just jam it under my headset so then it is now a hands free device so the cops wont give me a ticket......
 
Hope the airport you landed at ,has a good radio shop. Good job
 
I breathed a sigh of relief when I got to the part where you landed at an actual airport, Michael. I thought from the subject that you had put down in a farmer's field. Anyway, good decision to land at an airport where comms are not required, and yes your plane will be fine. I left mine tied down for annual this year, and it wasn't until a week and a half later when it was obvious they weren't going to be getting it into the shop anytime soon, that I asked them to please put it in a hangar (which they did).

But for a few days, unless some really bad weather moves through, you should be fine.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Squawk 7600, flash your landing light, wag your wings. The tower will get the message and then say oh boy, I get to use the light gun. Then they go dust it off and review the little placard on the back...let's see, is it a steady green or a flashing green or is it an alternating red and green followed by a steady green...?

Make the controller's day. He may think that he saved your life.
Click to expand...

Landing at Tucson very early one morning, on final I realized the radio had quit working, and I had not received clearance to land. I looked at the tower and could see a green light so I landed. The only time I have ever seen a light gun signal from the tower.

I called the tower and thanked them. I think the guy with the light gun was wearing a Beavis and Butthead T-shirt.... Was that you..???
 
steingar said:
Keep in mind that squawking 7600 won't do you that much good on downwind. I honestly don't even know if my tower has enough equipment to see it. I've seen ones that don't. My old tower had no more than a pair of binoculars and a radio.
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I think all of the Class D towers around Minneapolis have a repeater screen from Minneapolis Approach control radar...a D-BRITE, IIRC. Maybe @Timbeck2 or someone can expound on its capabilities with regard to the 7600 squawk.

Not 100% sure about KANE, but I know KFCM and KSTP towers have it.

Of course, the best answer is a visit to the tower if they still allow it.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Squawk 7600, flash your landing light, wag your wings. The tower will get the message and then say oh boy, I get to use the light gun. Then they go dust it off and review the little placard on the back...let's see, is it a steady green or a flashing green or is it an alternating red and green followed by a steady green...?

Make the controller's day. He may think that he saved your life.
Click to expand...
All good suggestions, but by the time you get any of that done you'll have blown through your downwind, especially in a Mooney. Trying to turn base, descend, do all that and keep below flaps speed is a lot. Better to just land out, says me. If I wasn't already scheduled to go to the avionics shop I'd probably call the tower and make arrangements. Good suggestions, though.
 
pburger said:
EDIT --- I just read through the entire thread. Looks like I was 13 posts too late with my observation. Nevermind....

I'm not going to second-guess your decision, you handled the situation in a manner you were comfortable with. You'll go get your airplane another day, get it fixed, and everything will be fine. But, I will make the following observation:

You carry a handheld, that's good -- but you were not able to use it comfortably in this situation, that's a problem. Whether you need a headset adapter, or just need to have better familiarity with the handheld, or both, you need to address those issues. The next time you need to use that handheld it might be a more serious situation with fewer options at your disposal.

Just food for thought - (from a guy that doesn't fly with a handheld :eek: -- I suppose I should).
Click to expand...

The proper way to use a handheld is to have it out, on, and set before you hit the landing pattern. I had two of the three. I think I had it set to the wrong frequency, easy to do with old eyes and evening light. Here's the thing. Radio worked fine 10 miles out. Had it not, I'd have had the handheld out and would have been calling already. I didn't realize I had a problem unit I was midfield on my downwind. I'm sorry, but that just isn't the place to screw with your handheld, it either works or you go elsewhere (or get your light gun signals).

Once I was outside their airspace I thought about it, but I then thought about some aeromedical issues. After a long day of work, a stressful balked landing, and then this I knew I wasn't at my best. My initial plane had been to go to a nice long uncontrolled field, land, get out of the airplane and cool down. I figured once I was good with my own situation I could turn around call the tower, use my handheld, whatever I decided to do. But then the opportunity arose to leave the aircraft. Like I said, I have to fly it out in this condition, so I figured leaving it was the best thing to do. Tonight it either gets a hangar or a cover (I have one I've never used).

I should thank you all for the positive suggestions.
 
steingar said:
The proper way to use a handheld is to have it out, on, and set before you hit the landing pattern. I had two of the three. I think I had it set to the wrong frequency, easy to do with old eyes and evening light. Here's the thing. Radio worked fine 10 miles out. Had it not, I'd have had the handheld out and would have been calling already. I didn't realize I had a problem unit I was midfield on my downwind. I'm sorry, but that just isn't the place to screw with your handheld, it either works or you go elsewhere (or get your light gun signals).

Once I was outside their airspace I thought about it, but I then thought about some aeromedical issues. After a long day of work, a stressful balked landing, and then this I knew I wasn't at my best. My initial plane had been to go to a nice long uncontrolled field, land, get out of the airplane and cool down. I figured once I was good with my own situation I could turn around call the tower, use my handheld, whatever I decided to do. But then the opportunity arose to leave the aircraft. Like I said, I have to fly it out in this condition, so I figured leaving it was the best thing to do. Tonight it either gets a hangar or a cover (I have one I've never used).

I should thank you all for the positive suggestions.
Click to expand...
Are you alive?

Is the plane reusable?

If you're 2/2, you made the right call.

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