I just paid $700 for a tire change

SixPapaCharlie said:
Went to my hangar and my tire was flat.
I Aired it up and in about 20 min, it lost ~20 PSI so I didn't want to fly it to my normal guy.

There's a shop next door. I go over and ask can you get me on your schedule? My tire is flat.

He calls me and says Tire is 299 tube is 99. I don't have a lot of choice so i say go for it.
He calls me that evening and says it's fixed.

I go to the shop to write him a check and he says its $690 Tire, Tube, and 2.5 hours labor.
I am like F**K but whatever.

THEN the dude says do you want your old tire? I say sure. He says "I would hang on to that, it is in really good shape"

I asked "What was the issue causing the leak?

He says we didn't want to waste time digging into why it was leaking so we just replaced the tire and tube.

I found the tire online and he marked it up 100% but that last bit about getting me a tire to replace a perfectly good tire at a 100% mark up has me a little ****ed.

What the hell just happened?
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what happened? You agreed to pay too much for a tire and tube. $116 an hour for the shop rate is a bit much, but they dropped what they were doing and got you done right away.
 
Clip4 said:
what happened? You agreed to pay too much for a tire and tube. $116 an hour for the shop rate is a bit much, but they dropped what they were doing and got you done right away.
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My primary concern was paying for something I don't need. If you tell me I need a new tube and tire, I will assume you assessed it and determined that I need them.
I would not assume that you just start buying parts without looking. I agreed to have the work done but I guess I was niave in assuming he determined there was a need for the parts.
He hadn't even looked at it when he was giving me the quote
 
"customer supplied parts" would have saved u some coin
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My primary concern was paying for something I don't need. If you tell me I need a new tube and tire, I will assume you assessed it and determined that I need them.
I would not assume that you just start buying parts without looking. I agreed to have the work done but I guess I was niave in assuming he determined there was a need for the parts.
He hadn't even looked at it when he was giving me the quote
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He did you a favor. That tire will be more expensive the next time you go to buy one.
Inflation....
 
painless said:
Just another reason I’m glad I built and maintain my own homebuilt airplane.
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Though in fairness, this is less to do with EAB allowances (changing tires is one of the few things I can do during daytime hours and/or without closing my hangar doors) and more to do with people using the retract excuse to jack up (pun very much intended) the labor vs the one-legged lift most FG owners do to replace a main. And yes, I've seen that shtick pushed when it comes to retracts vs welded legs. Another reason I can't wait to go back to FG when I shift airplanes.

Though I think there was an upgauge of labor billed hours here, frankly my objection at-large is to the pricing of the tire and tube, not the labor. I know I'm paying him to incur the kabuki of splitting rims and reassembling them, with the benefit of his shop and ready-access tools. Mechanical task I clearly have the wherewithal to accomplish, but with little in the way of the assorted nicknack of single-use tools I'd have to procure and carry around all the time in my already climb rate limited lawnmower. The price of the tire/tube otoh, that stuff is highway robbery compared to the pair of touring tires I put in my daily driver's transaxle yesterday, which see real heavy use and wear at heavier loadings.

In the end, I just fly with overinflated mains, and that seems to insulate me from most of the flat issues (pinched tubes while underinflated under cornering or fast accel/decel aka touchdown and braking) I've encountered in the past.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
So....is the red dot with the valve stem or opposite? ;)
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Red dot indicates the light spot in the tire and where the valve stem should be placed.
I have been changing tires all my life on semi trucks and reg cars and trucks. So these small AC tires are pretty easy to work on.
Running them low on air will wear out the tube and give you flats. I put one of my used tubes in my plane so if get a flat away from home I at least have the tube.
IMG_1885.JPG

This past summer I put monster retreads on my 172 from Dresser. They are a little taller and heavier. I really like em, they provide a better landing on turf or rough strips. And run super smooth,. I was worried about balance but they are near perfect.
IMG_1879.JPG
 
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MooneyDriver78 said:
On a related topic, what’s the limit of tire tread to be considered airworthy? Top of Lincoln’s head like with cars?
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Apparently when you see cords then it is time to change tires according to the flight school I went to.

I put these air hawks and tubes on April 2018 new. I stripped and painted the wheels then also. They gave me good service, never went flat. I looked in my log book and counted the landing about 9 months before I changed them. At that point they had 1700 some landings on them 95% asphalt. They had well over 2000 landings and take offs during 4 years of service. Lot's of T&Gs , what else do you do in a 172? lol
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IMG_1893.JPG

Brand new air hawks when I first put them on.
At this time I was renting the plane from a friend. I pay for oil and gas and he pays for parts and I do the labor under supervision of his AP/IA. The tires on the plane were 15 years old and dry rotted when I first flew it. I said it needs new tires and he blurts out the tires only had 15 hrs on them! lol Which was true he didn't fly it and that's why he had me flying it. I paid for it and put fresh tires on it. I was happy to do it there were no hard feelings. My butt in the thing and not that expensive.
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Checkout_my_Six said:
So....is the red dot with the valve stem or opposite? ;)
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Since the red dot marks the light side of the tire, it goes with the valve stem which is the heavy side of the tube.

Once you know why the red dot is marked, it's easy to remember how to use it.
 
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Gary Ward said:
Red dot indicates the light spot in the tire and where the valve stem should be placed.
I have been changing tires all my life on semi trucks and reg cars and trucks. So I do my own airplane tires.
Running them low on air with wear out the tube and give you flats. I put one of my used tubes in my plane so if get a flat away from home I at least have the tube.

This past summer I put monster retreads on my 172 from Dresser. They are a little taller and heavier. I really like em, they provide a better landing on turf or rough strips. And run super smooth,. I was worried about balance but they are perfect.
IMG_1879.JPG
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When I was in charge of maintenance for my flying club, I did a whole lot of tire changes in the middle of the night.

We used Dresser recaps to save money and they were like tanks! Super heavy and lasted until the next knucklehead locked up the brakes....

I drove up there and picked up a pile of them in person once. Huge operation and desperately needed back in those days.
 
Gary Ward said:
Apparently when you see cords then it is time to change tires according to the flight school I went to.
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This or when you see cracks is the time to replace. I usually replace 'em before that because they become unbalanced or I'd rather change them at a time of my convenience, rather than in a "need to replace it now" situation.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
But this is ******** right?
Or is this normal? I don't recall ever getting a tire replaced and feeling like I got screwed.
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This is not normal, I had a flat after landing, had to be towed and tire repaired on a taxiway. For simplicity I think they have a tire/tube already ready, it’s easier to swap in a new combo vs trying to figure out what went wrong, it was $400. I was fine with that. At the club, some other pilots had flats at another airport, it wasn’t more than $400, might have even been $300.

I got ripped on an oil change lately, when the economy goes into this situation, just a bunch of ripping off left and right. He quoted you $400, should have paid that and left it at that. The extra for labor, call him out on it (next time). Remember you aren’t asking for a discount, obviously we know you’re willing to pay $$$, you just want to pay what you were quoted. FBO’s do that stuff too, I’ve had to call them out on it several times.
 
IK04 said:
When I was in charge of maintenance for my flying club, I did a whole lot of tire changes in the middle of the night.

We used Dresser recaps to save money and they were like tanks! Super heavy and lasted until the next knucklehead locked up the brakes....

I drove up there and picked up a pile of them in person once. Huge operation and desperately needed back in those days.
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I put Dresser caps w/Michelin Air Stops on the Comanche before Osh. Happy w/them so far, including the price. I will say the Comanche w/dual fork requires holding you mouth right @ one point while putting back together.
 
Gary Ward said:
Apparently when you see cords then it is time to change tires according to the flight school I went to.
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Every company I flew for in Alaska had the same rule...

They had some silly complaint about the cost of tires...:lol::lol:
 
Zeldman said:
They had some silly complaint about the cost of tires...:lol::lol:
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lol I understand where they are coming from.
I learned to fly on a 6000' long runway and we were barely allowed to use the brakes on the school planes. Geez if you ever locked up the tires you probably get kicked out of the school.
 
Also could have been a $0.59 Schrader valve. use this as a learning lesson. One time I got charged $80 for nitrogen in my struts. Immediately went out and bought my own nitrogen tank and regulator. Learn to do allowable maintenance items.
 
Daleandee said:
Well ... if the tube is all that being changed then technically you haven't "changed a tire" although it was R&R'd ... :dunno:
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Who said they were only changing a tube? I didn’t. OP didn’t.

Even if they are only changing a tube, I can’t imagine doing it while leaving the tire on…so you’re “changing the tire” with the same tire, doing the same amount of work. Actually it might be a little more work, as I’d want to take a close look at the inside of that old tire if I burst a tube in it.
 
Country Flier said:
Who said they were only changing a tube? I didn’t. OP didn’t.

Even if they are only changing a tube, I can’t imagine doing it while leaving the tire on…so you’re “changing the tire” with the same tire, doing the same amount of work. Actually it might be a little more work, as I’d want to take a close look at the inside of that old tire if I burst a tube in it.
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I was replying Salty's quote and admittedly being a bit facetious by pointing out that if you put the same tire back on the rim it's not really changing it but rather removing & replacing it.

Sure takes the joy out of being facetious if I gotta explain it ... ;)
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
But this is ******** right?
Or is this normal? I don't recall ever getting a tire replaced and feeling like I got screwed.
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Not normal. The mechanic at my field moved on and the shop was sold twice. Had 2 occasions where the mechanics did horrible work, but the manager waived the charge (as I had to go to another shop). Upon leaving, one indicated I needed a new engine for a "case crack" ... I shot pictures and sent them to FletchAIR and Zephyr (it was my previous Tiger) ... both shops said "RUN" that's a rip off attempt ... picture was a normal casting mark according to both ... my previous Tiger had 3 annuals at FletchAir and am glad it did. Zephyr I sent a picture via email as the owner used to be around here ...
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
More familiar with the Make / Model. The guy I use was recommended by a fellow Comanche 250 owner who has used him for years.
He did my annual and it was a good experience.

He used to be on my field and was like you mentioned. He re set my landing gear after I had to do the emergency procedure. He came over, jacked it up, reconnected it and said "no charge, just remember me next time you need something" He needed a bigger shop so he moved to the airport north of mine.
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Replacing a tire that didn't need replacing was beyond the pale. Did he do a retraction check? I don't bother if the tire is new, but will on a recap. Jacking the plane completely and running a gear check would add 20m, but even so, I would have a hard time seeing more than 2 hours. 1.5-1.7 to change the tire and tube would be more in line with normal for a Comanche.
 
Daleandee said:
I was replying Salty's quote and admittedly being a bit facetious by pointing out that if you put the same tire back on the rim it's not really changing it but rather removing & replacing it.

Sure takes the joy out of being facetious if I gotta explain it ... ;)
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Yeah I know, and I was trying to say @Salty was being pedantic, not you, but I guess I did a bad job of it.
 
My take away from this thread:

1. learn to do the things you’re allowed to do as an owner on your aircraft.

2. Buy the tools necessary to complete said things.

3. order your own parts

Things we do not know.

What tire and tube was installed?
What was the shop rate? Was it the normal or the “drop everything and fix this” rate?
Did they discover that the bearings were dry and cleaned and re-greased the bearings?

In my experience as a mechanic on Comanches which is limited but my opinion is shared by those I work with: Comanches are a mechanic’s nightmare especially if they haven’t been maintained by a reputable shop. It’s like the Piper engineers had a contest on who could design an aircraft for Rube Goldberg

edit: I’m not saying I agree with the 100% mark up on the parts. That’s foul.
 
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I'm guessing he got his monies worth in learning that if this were to happen again he'd pull out the jack and the tools and git-er-dun! At the end of the day it sounds like a tube replacement was all that was needed.

Just last year I replaced both tires & tubes (taildragger). Less than $250.00 in parts plus a bit of sweat equity. I read stories like his on POA and it really makes me just go and hug my experimental ... :)
 
I bought TWO Goodyear flight custom 3 tires and Michelin airstop tubes for less than 900$ and will install them soon when weather cools down.
I have a air/hydraulic wing jack that I put together myself so I can change pads and tire changes.
Pays for itself.
 
To everyone shouting: LERN TO CHANGE YER OWN TARS!!!11!!!!1

Our man @SixPapaCharlie , to the best of my knowledge, is not what you'd call "mechanically inclined". Changing a tire is certainly not rocket surgery, but it's also not trivial and is a crucial safety of flight item. I'd wager I've changed more tires than 99% of the people here on everything from lawnmowers to combines, motorcycles to semis. In fact I just put two new steer tires on one of my semi tractors yesterday. I don't change my own aircraft tires. I've watched the shop do it, and for the $100 or so labor they charge, I'm happy to let them. If I was stuck on a runway in BFE, sure I'd go for it if I could scrounge up a tube and some tools, but not as a regular thing.

In other news, while he's not a mechanic, there's some other things he's apparently real good at to be able to afford to own & operate an aircraft. The time he spent learning to do, and doing, the job could likely be more productively spent IT'ing (whatever the hell that is...that is what you do right? computer nerd?) or even editing a silly youtube video.

Personally were I in Bryan's shoes I'd chalk it up to tuition at the school of hard knocks, and know that if I ever needed anything from that shop again, I'm going to have to be VERY specific, and possibly even stick around to supervise. In the end, he got his problem solved on short notice and minimal effort. So it cost a couple hundred bucks more than it should have. That sucks. But now you know. Still cheaper than flying in a mechanic from somewhere else.

FWIW 6PC, if the tire looks good (isn't low on tread, flatspotted, or weather cracked), it probably just needs a new tube. The labor is the same, but you could've saved the price of the tire.
 
Dave Anderson said:
Make sure you let others know ***holes like this won't last long if people know. Opportunistic!
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I worry that as A&Ps retire and shops continue to get overbooked, alpha hotels like these will be more common, not less.

I've even toyed with the idea of getting insured and taking on AOG/rescue work at nosebleed rates.
 
schmookeeg said:
I worry that as A&Ps retire and shops continue to get overbooked, alpha hotels like these will be more common, not less.

I've even toyed with the idea of getting insured and taking on AOG/rescue work at nosebleed rates.
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When rates go up high enough more folks will enter the business. Right now you can make more money working for a Lexus dealership than you can changing tires on Comanches. And you don’t have to deal with nearly as many pilots.
 
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