I just got back from my first ever medical, is this normal?...

S

SoCalSky

Guest
Does the AME typically go over the results of the medical before submitting it? I didn't get any feedback throughout; at the end they just said to check MedXpress for status updates (which says deferred), so I guess I'll eventually learn from the FAA what I came up short on...

also,
- On the Ishihara vision color test, are there a few images without numbers? (I'm a photographer by trade and have never had issues with colors, so I found that confusing...)
- On the Snellen visual acuity test, they pointed at the line below 20/20 (20/16?) and asked me to read it, I didn't do so well but they didn't ask me to read anything else, so not sure what result they put in for that...
 
SoCalSky said:
…
- On the Ishihara vision color test, are there a few images without numbers?
Click to expand...

Not in my experience.

SoCalSky said:
…
- On the Snellen visual acuity test, they pointed at the line below 20/20 (20/16?) and asked me to read it, I didn't do so well but they didn't ask me to read anything else, so not sure what result they put in for that...
Click to expand...
Are you certain which line was being pointed at?
Either way, unless you have the result, you don’t know what you don’t know.

SoCalSky said:
Does the AME typically go over the results of the medical before submitting it?...
Click to expand...
I’ve always been issued in office, but that’s because I knew what paperwork to bring with me for the doc to issue in office.

The FAA will eventually send you a letter asking for additional information and give you a short timeline to execute. Don’t dawdle or you’ll get denied.
 
SoCalSky said:
- On the Ishihara vision color test, are there a few images without numbers?
Click to expand...


Sort of. There are some plates with numbers that can only be seen by people with defective color vision. We have no way to know whether you were shown those plates, though. I doubt you were shown the entire set.
 
When I first spoke to my AME on the phone and explained my situation, he advised I would need to be deferred. During my exam, he went through the results and indicated the exact conditions for my deferral. He also referred me to the specific page on the guide for examiners (https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/dec_cons) that explained the requirements for deferral for my condition. It was 100% transparent. It's unfortunate you weren't given any more information.

SoCalSky said:
- On the Ishihara vision color test, are there a few images without numbers? (I'm a photographer by trade and have never had issues with colors, so I found that confusing...)
Click to expand...

Not in my test. I was asked to read two of them, but there were numbers on all of the images.
 
Describe the lighting in your exam room.

The Ishichara (sp?) tests are accurate only when given at a certain degree Kelvin of light. If your vision is marginal, the color temperature of ordinary fluorescent light will significantly
degrade your color perception, and may create a false fail. If possible, take the test outside, or at least a sunny room. Sunlight is the right color temperature.

-Skip
 
Half Fast said:
Sort of. There are some plates with numbers that can only be seen by people with defective color vision. We have no way to know whether you were shown those plates, though. I doubt you were shown the entire set.
Click to expand...

Hm, well at least there's a chance those are the plates I saw; it's either that, I've gone my whole life and 15 year career without noticing a color issue, or the fluorescent lights don't render the plates well.

TCABM said:
Are you certain which line was being pointed at?
Click to expand...

They pointed to the line right below a red bar, so I started reading it off. I had to approach the chart after on the way back to the exam room and I read the small labels next to the tests on the way, 20/20 was right above the red bar, the lines below weren't labeled. I was surprised they didn't have me keep reading up since I was having noticeable issue with that line.

I kinda want to go see an ophthalmologist and have them send a proper eye test in, just in case...

TCABM said:
I’ve always been issued in office, but that’s because I knew what paperwork to bring with me for the doc to issue in office.
Click to expand...

I wasn't asked to bring and wasn't aware I needed to bring anything. I only brought the MedXpress generated 8500-8 (didn't even have to show ID, I could have sent a friend/stranger in if I wanted).

FoCoJayco said:
During my exam, he went through the results and indicated the exact conditions for my deferral. He also referred me to the specific page on the guide for examiners (https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/dec_cons) that explained the requirements for deferral for my condition. It was 100% transparent. It's unfortunate you weren't given any more information.
Click to expand...

I wish I'd ended up with a AME like that, hopefully the next time I choose an AME...

My answers to MedXpress & the AME's questions were all no, so I either have a problem I didn't know about (and still don't), they defer while waiting for urinalysis, or I got screwed

Thanks for the link, I'm sure it will come in handy when I find out what's up

Skip Miller said:
Describe the lighting in your exam room.
Click to expand...

(Exam/Ishihara room) A single drop ceiling 24"x48" multi-tube fluorescent fixture, I'm guessing near 3500K-4100K tubes based on the bits of outside light leaking around the closed blinds. The Snellen chart was in an alcove in the hall, it did not have any direct light falling on it.
 
SoCalSky said:
....or the fluorescent lights don't render the plates well.
Click to expand...


They don’t.

When I did my 3rd class, Dr. Bruce placed me next to a window so the plates were in bright sunshine.

You might have had a less-than-stellar AME, unfortunately.
 
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SoCalSky said:
- On the Ishihara vision color test, are there a few images without numbers? (I'm a photographer by trade and have never had issues with colors, so I found that confusing...)
Click to expand...

Yes, the standard Ishihara book that I've taken with multiple AMEs over 30 years has a few (typically at the end) pages that with normal vision are just some squiggly lines but with certain types of color blindness are actually numbers. My understanding is that some of the other slides, the number you see is different if you are normal, or color-blind, depending on the type of color blindness. Pretty clever test actually, in spite of it's shortcomings.
 
Half Fast said:
Sort of. There are some plates with numbers that can only be seen by people with defective color vision.
Click to expand...

I think I’ve related this before…

In high school, I had no clue my color vision wasn’t normal. A biology textbook was handed out and I flipped it open to a color vision test - a bunch of colored dots with the word “onion” quite obvious in the pattern. Problem was, the legend said “People with normal color vision will see the word “color”, those with a red/green color deficiency will see the word “onion”, and those completely color blind will see no word at all.” I assumed the chart was misprinted, but most of my friend clearly saw the word “color”.

I missed enough plates on my FAA medical that I didn’t pass. However, by flying with an FAA person and properly identifying light gun signals I was issued a “Statement of Demonstrated Ability”, which after almost 50 years I still have in my wallet. Red looks very red to me, and green looks very green, but I have to accept I don’t see them as well as normal folks do, and may get them confused under certain situations.
 
Half Fast said:
You might have had a loss-than-stellar AME, unfortunately.
Click to expand...

I'm leaning that way... I seem to have choose... poorly.

RussR said:
Yes, the standard Ishihara book that I've taken with multiple AMEs over 30 years has a few (typically at the end) pages that with normal vision are just some squiggly lines but with certain types of color blindness are actually numbers. My understanding is that some of the other slides, the number you see is different if you are normal, or color-blind, depending on the type of color blindness. Pretty clever test actually, in spite of it's shortcomings.
Click to expand...

I've been learning quite a bit about the test, post-test. They really are quite clever, but as with any measurement/evaluation device, it must be used property. Scary thing is you can fail it without even knowing... (even potentially due to false positive due to no fault of your own).
The instructions state it should be held at a right angle to the subject (not 45° back with glare from the ceiling lights like I had), and daylight lit or equivalent. The couple plates I didn't see numbers on were near the end as well.

FastEddieB said:
I missed enough plates on my FAA medical that I didn’t pass. However, by flying with an FAA person and properly identifying light gun signals I was issued a “Statement of Demonstrated Ability”, which after almost 50 years I still have in my wallet. Red looks very red to me, and green looks very green, but I have to accept I don’t see them as well as normal folks do, and may get them confused under certain situations.
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing out this is something we may not always be aware of ourselves and that there are alternatives if needed. It's nice to hear it hasn't stopped you :)




I think tomorrow I'll look into an ophthalmologist and if I can have their test supersede the AME's with a note over concern for improper testing procedures, just to be on the safe side.

I may also call the FAA and see if a records request would let me see the submitted form, so I can try to figure out what the deferral was for...
 
There are no plates, on the ishiara 14 that contain blanks (correected (see Ron, below)).
 
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The one I have taken has a couple of plates with the squiggly line and I have been asked to trace the line with my finger.

AFAIK, the Snellen chart is supposed to be well lit. But if they did not ask you to read a higher line, you may have actually gotten enough right to pass at the line you did read.
 
Man, why didn’t you ask if you passed? Can’t be shy if you want to be a pilot, speak up. Call the doc this morning and ask.
 
FastEddieB said:
I have to accept I don’t see them as well as normal folks do, and may get them confused under certain situations.
Click to expand...
Have you tried the color blindness correction glasses? My nephew found them quite revealing, and he works with colors also.

Paul
 
You wouldn’t have been deferred if you failed the color vision test. You would have been issued a medical that says:

“NOT VALID FOR NIGHT FLIGHT OR BY COLOR SIGNAL CONTROL.”

So it has to be something else, no?
 
SoCalSky said:
\
- On the Ishihara vision color test, are there a few images without numbers? (I'm a photographer by trade and have never had issues with colors, so I found that confusing...)
Click to expand...
There are some that just have a random pattern on it to normal color view. If you see the numbers, you have issues.
- On the Snellen visual acuity test, they pointed at the line below 20/20 (20/16?) and asked me to read it, I didn't do so well but they didn't ask me to read anything else, so not sure what result they put in for that...
Click to expand...

Generally, it's the read the smallest you can. As long as it is equal or better to the 20/20 (for first or second) or 20/40 (for third), you're fine.
 
I talked to the AME again briefly and they said I'd have to request the exam results from the FAA. I called the FAA and they said I didn't fail anything, I also asked what my vision was marked as, they said 20/40 (the minimum for the 3rd class I was going for). I went to a local optometrist for an eye exam (no issues, 20/20) and had them fax that with a note that the patient was concerned the previous eye exam was not conducted properly and that I had 20/20 with no vision issues to the FAA. So hopefully that will superseded the AME's test to prevent any potential future issues.

Below is some info about the Ishihara that members above have already mentioned some of...
Thanks for all the information and input everyone :)



For future reference to others, here's the Ishihara tests. There are 4 versions (the 10 plate version doesn't have numbers).

For the numbered versions, they all contain plates of the following types:
  • Numbers that can only be seen by people with normal vision (appear as having no number to people with color-deficiencies)
  • Numbers that can only be seen by people with color-deficiencies (appear as having no number to people with normal vision)
  • Plates that appear to have different numbers depending on if viewer has normal or color-deficient vision
  • Plates with lines the viewer is to trace with a pointer rather than numbers (not always used)

To prevent false positive of a color deficiency, the plates should be the official book that has been properly taken care of to prevent degradation in it's color, be properly lit with a light source that approximates daylight spectrum and color temperature and of a sufficient brightness (but not direct sunlight), and held roughly at the correct distance, perpendicular to the line of sight with no glare on the plate from the lighting.

The following scans are for reference only, being scans and the large variance in computer displays, they may not accurately display and may be easier/harder to view than the official, properly lit books.

Only Official Reseller
https://shop.grahamfield.com/Medica...lor_Deficiency.aspx?b=0&s=0&c=0&g=0&p=154&v=1

38 Plate Instructions & Plates
https://www.scribd.com/embeds/246420820/content
https://www.scribd.com/embeds/268595340/content

24 Plate Instructions & Plates
https://www.scribd.com/embeds/391321237/content

14 Plate Instructions & (Crappy Copy of) Plates
https://www.scribd.com/embeds/355567744/content
https://www.scribd.com/embeds/613244419/content

AME Guide for Color Vision
https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/item52/amd

Test Conditions (see "Pseudoisochromatic Plates")
https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/item52/et

Pass/Fail Criteria
https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/Acceptable_ATCS_Tests.pdf
 
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