I feel weird (plane market)

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Mtns2Skies

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Mtns2Skies
I bought a ratty old Cessna out of a barn for mid 5 figures. Now some examples of my model are exceeding a quarter million to a half million dollars. I'm not a person to have fancy expensive vehicles or anything worth that much money, but now I feel quite self conscious with how much the plane has become valued at. In a lot of ways even though it behooves my net worth, I wish they weren't so expensive since now I'm so afraid of anything happening to it. I know I could never replace it since even with seemingly unlimited money Skywagons just aren't available anymore.

I used to taxi up to a ramp at breakfast and I just had another one of the planes, not so terribly different in value than other pipers or anything else on the flight line. Now people look at my plane with a different look and go "Wow that'd be the ticket". I miss my plane being cool for being a cool plane, not because bush flying is a new fad or because it's worth so damn much. I miss being able to blend in with my ratty old taildragger.

Just a weird thought.
 
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First world problems. :biggrin: BTW: Love your plane.
In the Cub, I would taxi up and people would ask me to move my plane, in case a part would fall off and damage another plane.
Someone once asked me if I covered it with a paper bag when it was parked. Another asked if I wore a paper bag when I flew it. OK, it was the rat rod of Cubs.
The plane I have now is misidentified by everyone, including ATC. No matter how many times I say "Vagabond", the local tower says "Vanguard".
It's a Vagabond. Not at Pacer, not a Clipper, not a Tri Pacer, not a Super Cub (the latest re-branding by the KPOU tower).
But the pretty young thing at the diner thinks its "So Cuuute!" I'll take it. :happydance:
 
Well... I see your point.

I’d counter with the thought that it’s your demeanor that sets the tone for how you two are viewed more than how trade-a-plane says you should be viewed.

At least that’s likely true for the crowd I’d suspect with whom you relate.
 
You could always sell it and buy 4 ratty old Mooney's :D That should take care of your net worth problem too.

I understand though. I'm a bit embarrassed to post pictures on FB because it feels like showing off. I also live in fear of something happening to my plane as I couldn't replace it for its insured value. I was thinking prices would come back down, but with inflation flaring up, that's not going to happen. Going to have to raise the value and eat the increase. These planes don't look so crazy if you go price a new Suburban.
 
I love the Skywagons, always been the plane I've dreamt of and would love to own. Sadly, now that I'm getting close to ownership, they've probably been priced out of my grasp yet again. Unless the market tanks and they come way down I guess I'll have to settle for something else like a 182, but even those have gone insane. Really hope things even out and come back down to a normal level soon.
 
Well, we find ourselves in a whole new world. In 2019 I bought a ratty 1965 straight tail Cessna 150E, that had sat for 6 years untouched and uninspected. Sitting 6 years is a long time so I took on all the risk. Bought it and then spent the purchase price again bringing it back to life, including getting ADSB compliant. Cessna 150's are selling for 3 times what I have in it making it the most expensive hobby in my life, if I had to replace it. I doubled the hull insurance to cover a loss. Even with a 150, I have other pilots telling me they wish they could find something like it. Weird times for sure.
 
@Mtns2Skies in reading your posts over the years, I suspect we have some similarities in that we are/were among a pretty lucky few to have the passion and ability to own a plane very early on. I bought my first plane in my mid 20s, and can related to some of your concerns in this post. Unfortunately I’m older now so it’s getting less jarring to other people, but I learned early to hide the fact of my airplane ownership from other people. It would often elicit “well-aren’t-we-fancy” looks or snide comments, regardless of the fact that I lived in an apartment with two roommates, drove a 15 year old car, and had no kids or mortgage. But I had a plane, and was worthy of their judgement. You might consider a similar strategy of keeping it to yourself.

And, like you, now the value of my plane has gone up so much that it *is* kind of a ridiculous luxury item. I bought it for about the price of a used pickup, now we have examples on the market for a quarter million bucks or more (mine wouldn’t go for that, but still).

Home prices are similar. The rise in home prices are good for you if you’re selling (or doing cash-out refi’ing, I suppose, if you believe in that kind of thing), but bad for you if you’re paying the tax bill or need to upgrade.
 
I think my ol’ taildraggin’ Maule hasn’t appreciated quite like the Skywagons and such. Sold it 9 years ago for a pittance.

I do miss being the mis-identified plane on the ramp. Even the docents at Oshkosh sent my 1995 model to the antique camping area two years running!

As they got rarer, taildraggers got more enjoyable at bigger FBOs where they’d really prefer you park it yourself but where there’s often no process for recording your parking or movements when no line person is involved. Park it out of sight of the front desk or better yet a patch of grass, have it topped off, return 2 days later, pay the fuel bill and then, “would you like it pulled out”?

“Well no, you it’s a taildragger and you don’t have a tow bar”.

“Oh, okay, need anything else”?

“No, see ya’ and thanks”! Just be sure to bring your own tie downs.

I did feel a bit small after being repeatedly directed to park right out front of Wilson Air at KCLT, a support rep took me off in the corner and kindly asked that I stop parking my Maule right in front (as directed) because I was clogging up the works. Wilson is the best, seriously, but still….

Now I fly an RV10, I hide out next to the SR22s but do get to enjoy the Cirrus drivers trying figure out what that thing is.

It’s mine GD, all mine!

dea1b61133cb72962234ecd02e6dc0cd.jpg
 
Mtns2Skies said:
I bought a ratty old Cessna out of a barn for mid 5 figures. Now some examples of my model are exceeding a quarter million to a half million dollars. I'm not a person to have fancy expensive vehicles or anything worth that much money, but now I feel quite self conscious with how much the plane has become valued at. In a lot of ways even though it behooves my net worth, I wish they weren't so expensive since now I'm so afraid of anything happening to it. I know I could never replace it since even with seemingly unlimited money Skywagons just aren't available anymore.

I used to taxi up to a ramp at breakfast and I just had another one of the planes, not so terribly different in value than other pipers or anything else on the flight line. Now people look at my plane with a different look and go "Wow that'd be the ticket". I miss my plane being cool for being a cool plane, not because bush flying is a new fad or because it's worth so damn much. I miss being able to blend in with my ratty old taildragger.

Just a weird thought.
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This isn't good for you. It's going to smolder in your psyche and cause you to go insane. You must sell the plane before it pushes you over the edge. You must not sell for the current market prices that are causing your angst. That would just make it worse. You must sell for no more than what you paid for it. It is your only salvation.
 
I felt like I had lucked out with little Grumman with what I paid for it. Whenever I get it back from our first annual together, and its hefty price tag, I'll still be quite a bit under its market value. Still not sure I managed that.
 
steingar said:
I'm the weird one. I don't care what anyone thinks about my aircraft. i know it's the bestest one because it's mine. That's always been enough for me.
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I could t agree more! My friends tell me I need a faster more capable bird. She does 100mph, she’s gotten me in and out of Johnson Creek, she’s hauled my butt up off 8500’ DA and she drinks 5gph… until I have a kid move to a coast then she’s everything I need and want for my missions. Sure more ponies are cool, but if ya can learn how to fly in ground effect after lift off instead of “rotating” she’s fine on a shorter strip- I don’t need in and out of 500’ I just don’t. Maintenance isn’t a killer, gas bill is great, so another 50k and more per hour to fly gets me there quicker on a long long cross country once a year. So we have very different birds but both have the same feeling towards em. I think probably many of us feel the same, and probably for a host of different reasons
 
Mtns2Skies said:
I bought a ratty old Cessna out of a barn for mid 5 figures. Now some examples of my model are exceeding a quarter million to a half million dollars. I'm not a person to have fancy expensive vehicles or anything worth that much money, but now I feel quite self conscious with how much the plane has become valued at. In a lot of ways even though it behooves my net worth, I wish they weren't so expensive since now I'm so afraid of anything happening to it. I know I could never replace it since even with seemingly unlimited money Skywagons just aren't available anymore.

I used to taxi up to a ramp at breakfast and I just had another one of the planes, not so terribly different in value than other pipers or anything else on the flight line. Now people look at my plane with a different look and go "Wow that'd be the ticket". I miss my plane being cool for being a cool plane, not because bush flying is a new fad or because it's worth so damn much. I miss being able to blend in with my ratty old taildragger.

Just a weird thought.
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move doubled my hull coverage on the “mini-wagon” in last three years…
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I saw the prices going through the roof on Grumman so I did what any idiot would do and I sold it.
Now I can buy an overpriced plane that will not be worth as much in a year or two.
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Fly the Cirrus and wait it out.
 
Just consider yourself ahead of the curve.
I would have a couple questions that might quell your weird feeling. Is it what you really really really wanted when you bought it however long ago? Would you rather have something else if you could trade even $$ for it? How about if you got something you liked even better but a sack of money on the side? If thats possible I'd say do it while you can.
Its looking like the old car scene starting about 20 years ago. FOMO of what the Jones' down the street has.

I wouldn't expect a great reset to prices of a even 3 years ago, ever. They will cool but not go cold. Some will be forever appreciating. Part of the problem nowadays is people call their hobbies investments and will keep them to the bitter end rather than think about a loss, expecting to get back what they put into it. The best deals to be had are from widows that never see the receipts.:devil:
 
Robert Gee said:
Just consider yourself ahead of the curve.
I would have a couple questions that might quell your weird feeling. Is it what you really really really wanted when you bought it however long ago? Would you rather have something else if you could trade even $$ for it? How about if you got something you liked even better but a sack of money on the side? If thats possible I'd say do it while you can.
Its looking like the old car scene starting about 20 years ago. FOMO of what the Jones' down the street has.

I wouldn't expect a great reset to prices of a even 3 years ago, ever. They will cool but not go cold. Some will be forever appreciating. Part of the problem nowadays is people call their hobbies investments and will keep them to the bitter end rather than think about a loss, expecting to get back what they put into it. The best deals to be had are from widows that never see the receipts.:devil:
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receipts? What are these weird things you speak of?
 
Used to be I could say "Yeah, I bet you've got more in your boat than I've got in my plane." I don't know jack about boats and the boat market, but being only a 25% airplane owner, felt confident saying that. Don't know these days.
 
Be proud of what you have, enjoy the knowledge of what you paid for it, and what it’s worth. It’s no one’s business what you paid. If they want to have a garbage attitude, that’s their problem.
 
Wrongfully or rightfully, I always feel the opposite when it comes to Ol' Blue. I am like a proud dad that doesn't know his baby is ugly when I roll up in my $42k 1966 Cessna 172. I never understand why they don't roll out the red carpet for me at the FBOs like they do for the jets! I mean, don't they know I am there to buy 39 gallons of their finest 100LL?

I guess because I rented for so long that when I bought mine last year I was like Leo on the front of the Titanic. I think true happiness comes from seeing the world through kids eyes and enjoying and making the most of what you have and forget about what others are thinking. But then again, I grew up kind of poor with friends whose parents had everything and had to look at life that way. Enjoy the plane and forget the world and as long as you dont act like a pompous jerk, you'll do fine. Congrats on the plane!
 
scarcherpilot said:
Wrongfully or rightfully, I always feel the opposite when it comes to Ol' Blue. I am like a proud dad that doesn't know his baby is ugly when I roll up in my $42k 1966 Cessna 172. I never understand why they don't roll out the red carpet for me at the FBOs like they do for the jets! I mean, don't they know I am there to buy 39 gallons of their finest 100LL?

I guess because I rented for so long that when I bought mine last year I was like Leo on the front of the Titanic. I think true happiness comes from seeing the world through kids eyes and enjoying and making the most of what you have and forget about what others are thinking. But then again, I grew up kind of poor with friends whose parents had everything and had to look at life that way. Enjoy the plane and forget the world and as long as you dont act like a pompous jerk, you'll do fine. Congrats on the plane!
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very well put! :)
 
I owned a plane that was 'just okay' for 17 years. Then, all this COVID drama made me rethink living with 'just okay'. So, I looked, and looked and looked for my dream plane and eventually bought a down-on-its-luck Cardinal. It's certainly not a 'looker' but I am slowly fixing things up and I don't really care what people think of it. It's mine and when I open the hangar door it makes me smile. How can you put a price on THAT?
 
I kinda have the opposite problem. Everywhere I go, people want to check out my Decathlon. Always one of the coolest planes on the ramp. (Well, except for IAC contests, then I'm a naif among the Extras and Pitts.) I don't tell them I paid less than 50K for it.

Similar with my Tesla 3. Everyone reacts with "ooo, Mr Fancy Pants" when I say I have a Tesla, like I'm an NFL player or something. But I paid 35K for it brand new. You could easily blow more then that on a Honda or Toyota. I always tell people how affordable it is, and how much I save on gas and maintenance.

The good thing about being a geezer is Mr Stock Market has had time to work it's compound magic.
 
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My wife has photos of us flying in her office. She has people give her the "Oh money bags" comments and she says "Its' not like that at all. Its about like a boat. They're just not as popular as boats"
 
I'm not sure prices are going to return to the old normal. We've been living on the legacy fleet for a long time now, and attrition is taking its toll on that. Up until recently, the pilot population was decreasing as well, so the shrinkage of the fleet wasn't an issue. The last few years, the pilot population has stabilized, while the production of new single engine airplanes has averaged around 1000 total worldwide, and that's including some LSAs. Typically, two thirds of the year's production stays in North America. The last big years for aircraft production was in the 1980s.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
I bought a ratty old Cessna out of a barn for mid 5 figures. Now some examples of my model are exceeding a quarter million to a half million dollars. I'm not a person to have fancy expensive vehicles or anything worth that much money, but now I feel quite self conscious with how much the plane has become valued at. In a lot of ways even though it behooves my net worth, I wish they weren't so expensive since now I'm so afraid of anything happening to it. I know I could never replace it since even with seemingly unlimited money Skywagons just aren't available anymore.

I used to taxi up to a ramp at breakfast and I just had another one of the planes, not so terribly different in value than other pipers or anything else on the flight line. Now people look at my plane with a different look and go "Wow that'd be the ticket". I miss my plane being cool for being a cool plane, not because bush flying is a new fad or because it's worth so damn much. I miss being able to blend in with my ratty old taildragger.

Just a weird thought.
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I bought a lowly 172 from a friend after flying it for him since he lost his medical. He was in his 80s and owned 4-5 planes. He was always very concerned about someone buying something from him and "flipping" it for more money.

He asked several times when I asked to buy it if I was going to resell it? I am a new pilot and was thrilled to fly his plane but wanted something more than a 172 for my first plane. But after flying it for a while and helping do a annual/prebuy inspection I figured it is a good plane to start with. It was in very nice condition. I was lucky to find a 1980 N with 1412 hrs on it. I bought from him in 2017 and he passed away in 2019. I am glad he has not seen the dramatic increase in value for the 172s. He would never let me off the hook for that...lol
 
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@FormerHangie I wonder what will happen with the boomers age out of flying, as is probably about starting to happen. Should be a pretty big change in the supply/demand curve for aircraft.
 
AA5Bman said:
@FormerHangie I wonder what will happen with the boomers age out of flying, as is probably about starting to happen. Should be a pretty big change in the supply/demand curve for aircraft.
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I was wondering the same thing, so I grabbed some data from the FAA airmen statistics, and pasted them together. This is the count by age of private certificate holders.
Private Pilots by age.jpg

It looks to me like this is well underway. In 2015, the youngest boomers were 51 and the oldest 69, so look at the 50-54, 55-59, 60-64, and 65-69 groups in 2015, and compare them, to the five year older group in 2020. Some of those cohorts have shrunk by a third. The groups that have seen growth were 20-24 (airline training?) and geezers (70+).

It looks to me that the 50 - 70 groups will shrink over the next 20 years, but not dramatically, a few thousand pilots per year, and I don't think that will be enough to tank airplane prices, considering the low level of new airplane production.
 
The Sport Plane reg revision has the potential to change the market dynamic, if the FAA can get past their bureaucratic risk aversion. There really is no reason a 172-class aircraft could not be certified and operated with a reduced regulatory burden. Fixed gear, 2 seats, under 200hp, 2000# gross, and 60mph stall. No limit on cruise speed, and IFR legal ok. Legal for flight instruction and rental with increased maintenance regime, but not for other commercial purposes. Package with liability reform for that class of aircraft. What LSA should have been. What Vans RV is, except you can buy 'em already built.
 
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@Mtns2Skies it's nice you have the plane that fits you mission. You have worked hard at improving and upgrading your flying machine, that alone is worth it's weight in gold. If and when you decide to sell, you can feel good about selling a quality, well maintained plane..

I'm on the other end of the spectrum as far as pricing or resale value goes. I bought my 1974 Beech Sport in 1996 for 23K. I would be lucky to get 30K for it today. The only reason I would get 30K is I have a lot of spare parts. The baby Beech's have never been popular. I have maintained the Sport to a very good condition and continue to do so. I can think of many planes that would fit my mission better, but the Sport is mine and I do enjoy how it fly's. Well, except for the climb rate....:rolleyes:
 
I feel weird for not shopping for other airplanes, or having any idea if my 150 is worth what I paid for it, or appreciated/depreciated. I just love my airplane and I’m happy with it, whatever arbitrary number is attached to it.
 
Jim Caufield said:
I owned a plane that was 'just okay' for 17 years. Then, all this COVID drama made me rethink living with 'just okay'. So, I looked, and looked and looked for my dream plane and eventually bought a down-on-its-luck Cardinal. It's certainly not a 'looker' but I am slowly fixing things up and I don't really care what people think of it. It's mine and when I open the hangar door it makes me smile. How can you put a price on THAT?
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you will Iove her all the more too when it’s your time n elbow grease. My interior was ratty-ish or at least dated when I got mine, outside paint was ok… I redid her entire interior repainted it all- taught myself to paint with a gun, repainted a few panels on the outside, the gear legs and put a lot of elbow grease into what paint was ok just polishing it up. She now gets a lot of compliments and I beam with pride knowing not only is she mine but I did that…
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My wife has photos of us flying in her office. She has people give her the "Oh money bags" comments and she says "Its' not like that at all. Its about like a boat. They're just not as popular as boats"
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If you actually use the boat, it’s cheaper than a boat. Of course most people like to own a boat more than they like to use the boat. For most, it’s the biggest waste of money imaginable. Owning a plane you never fly is just as bad IMO.
 
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