I Don't Want to Step on Any Toes...

A

Anthony8822

Filing Flight Plan
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Mar 16, 2017
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Greenwood, Indiana
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Anthony
So, I'm a freelance CFI and I'm going to get my CFII next month. I'm not entirely sure if it is possible to freelance without stepping on any toes at the local FBO's. Should I stop caring about that? Is there a way to freelance - to put myself out there - without ticking anyone off?

And would it be a worthwhile investment to start a Facebook page and buy some advertising? Or should I just continue sticking my card at a bunch of FBO's and random businesses where I think my target demographic might see?

ANY advice on finding students at all would be very helpful. I quit my job (I was sick of getting hurt working with horses) and my funds are draining.
 
Whose airplane would you be using? Unless it's the FBO's airplane, I don't see that you have a problem.
 
Addition: I have also considered buying a Cherokee 180 or something and continuing to live with my parents while I undercut everyone in the area.
 
It depends. That does come up. They have their way of interfering. Try it and see... Dont burn your bridges whatever you do.
 
Why would you let worrying about stepping on toes stop you from making a living?

Besides, there are freelance CFIs at most airports even those with full sevice FBOs, Part 141 schools, etc. No need to worry at all.
 
Anthony8822 said:
So, I'm a freelance CFI and I'm going to get my CFII next month. I'm not entirely sure if it is possible to freelance without stepping on any toes at the local FBO's. Should I stop caring about that? Is there a way to freelance - to put myself out there - without ticking anyone off?

And would it be a worthwhile investment to start a Facebook page and buy some advertising? Or should I just continue sticking my card at a bunch of FBO's and random businesses where I think my target demographic might see?

ANY advice on finding students at all would be very helpful. I quit my job (I was sick of getting hurt working with horses) and my funds are draining.
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Maybe the FBO and/or local flight school steps on your toes? It's called a free marketplace. You have the same right to hold out your services as they do. And you even have the right to do a better job than them.
 
Some airports charge a fee\tax\something or other for using the airfield for commercial purposes.
I think DXR charges businesses $7,000.00 a year to conduct business there. (I could be off on the cost, but it's high)
 
citizen5000 said:
Maybe the FBO and/or local flight school steps on your toes? It's called a free marketplace. You have the same right to hold out your services as they do. And you even have the right to do a better job than them.
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Solid point. Very solid point.

Shepherd said:
Some airports charge a fee\tax\something or other for using the airfield for commercial purposes.
I think DXR charges businesses $7,000.00 a year to conduct business there. (I could be off on the cost, but it's high)
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I've looked into that and the airports around me differentiate from a guy giving BFR's and a flight school. If I had a plane based there, the ones around me charge by percentage
 
Any reason why you don't want to work for a flight school? There are plenty of freelance CFIs at my airport that actually work at multiple schools.
 
- if you have your own aircraf, the airport is going to hit you up for money under their uniform commercial standards policy. You also may be required to rent an office from one of the FBOs, need a business license from the city etc.
- undercutting everyone is a sure way to step on people's toes. Look at the local prices and charge the same
- build a website, use Google adwords and facebook to drive traffic. If you have students you'll have planes through the FBOs. No students, no business.
 
Don't worry about it.

When I did this I had a few schools who I rented from for instruction with my own students, the schools didn't mind, they still got rental money and I was bringing new people in their doors, just be friendly, one hand washes the other.
 
weilke said:
- if you have your own aircraf, the airport is going to hit you up for money under their uniform commercial standards policy. You also may be required to rent an office from one of the FBOs, need a business license from the city etc.
- undercutting everyone is a sure way to step on people's toes. Look at the local prices and charge the same
- build a website, use Google adwords and facebook to drive traffic. If you have students you'll have planes through the FBOs. No students, no business.
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Who does all of this???

Only thing I did was get a business license for $20 because the airport manager asked me nice, you don't really even need a site, but of your you get build one I wouldn't blow money paying for add words, lots of free things you can do to get good SEO, picking a good domain/company name is a big one
 
By charging a lower price than other instructors will only make potential students wonder why you have to charge less to get students, unless you have been instructing for years, retired and now instruct just to get out of the house.

And yes, answer the phone and emails in a timely manner.

And be in an area that is constantly hurting for instructors.
 
jordane93 said:
Any reason why you don't want to work for a flight school? There are plenty of freelance CFIs at my airport that actually work at multiple schools.
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Most of them don't want to work around my university schedule. They want someone there from 10AM-5PM every day.

weilke said:
- if you have your own aircraf, the airport is going to hit you up for money under their uniform commercial standards policy. You also may be required to rent an office from one of the FBOs, need a business license from the city etc.
- undercutting everyone is a sure way to step on people's toes. Look at the local prices and charge the same
- build a website, use Google adwords and facebook to drive traffic. If you have students you'll have planes through the FBOs. No students, no business.
Click to expand...

Conveniently, this isn't my first rodeo with business. This will be the third business venture for me if I do it, so I'm very familiar with local business laws :)

James331 said:
Don't worry about it.

When I did this I had a few schools who I rented from for instruction with my own students, the schools didn't mind, they still got rental money and I was bringing new people in their doors, just be friendly, one hand washes the other.
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I'm still making calls, but that's what I'm really hoping to do.

weilke said:
Oh, and answer your phone, return calls and emails. You'll be ahead of 90% of the CfIs out there.
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LOL My current occasional side job is as an office secretary, so I'll definitely be great about that!
 
JCranford said:
And then have some kind of coherent training plan and you'll be ahead of all of them
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I snagged all the syllabi from the university I went to ;)

As if they don't already let me. I prefer Part 61 training due to its flexibility, but I knew going in that I would need something that breaks it down into blocks so I don't overload students. I grew up flying with my dad, so I went in already knowing quite a bit - so I can't think back to my own training for reference for the average student. My FAA examiner on the CFI ride was VERY happy to see me walk in with a syllabus.
 
I'm in Indy too. I don't know if any of this helps, but: the private sky-vu club (http://www.sky-vu.org/faqs/) state in their FAQ that members can bring in their own instructor to train in the club planes. Also, where I fly (Indy Regional) there are definitely some instructors that are "by appointment only". I don't know what their relationship is with the FBO but they could be freelancers. So it sounds like there are options...
 
Hi Anthony.

I'm glad to see you interested in teaching as an independent CFII. I can only speak for myself, but there are likely other pilots around like me. I own my own airplane but usually when I do a BFR (actually now called FR as you probably know), I have to go to a local school and rent one of their airplanes. There really aren't any CFI's at my airport anymore (several CFI's, actually, but they are commercial pilots and the CFI is just a hang over from when they were working their way up the chain). "MY" CFII had a heart attack a few years ago and didn't make it. I really miss my friend and teacher. I like the school and the instructors, but I hate to rent an airplane that isn't any better (or as good) as the one in my hangar. The CFI's aren't comfortable with me flying over there and picking them up, so I rent.

I would recommend putting up cards, a Facebook page (I think web pages are unnecessary, and they are a lot bigger pain to set up and to maintain unless you are a IT type person), and word of mouth. The CFI that taught me to fly started like you with no students. I saw his ad in our local paper and called him. One of my cousins and I were his first two students. He soon had 10 students, and a lot of those had airplanes. Other guys with airplanes had him fly their airplanes on trips with them because they were not comfortable or wanted to be dropped off at the beach for a week and also wanted their airplane in their hangar. He would drop them off then go get them when they were ready to come home. When instructing, he charged me $35/hour. When flying people in their airplanes as described, I think he charged something like $135/hour. He had all the work he wanted. You could also teach a few ground schools. They say the teacher usually learns more than the students.

Good luck Anthony! We need more CFI's.
 
Anthony8822 said:
Most of them don't want to work around my university schedule. They want someone there from 10AM-5PM every day.



Conveniently, this isn't my first rodeo with business. This will be the third business venture for me if I do it, so I'm very familiar with local business laws :)



I'm still making calls, but that's what I'm really hoping to do.



LOL My current occasional side job is as an office secretary, so I'll definitely be great about that!
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Gotcha. That's different. I haven't heard of a school turning down a CFI. Seems like all the schools here need all the help they can get. Good luck man!
 
Go for it but; DONT CUT YOUR PRICE! Take pride in what you do and how you do it. Always give a bit more then the customer expected, be dependable and it won,t be long before you can charge more than the local "school", work fewer hours and make more! Typically a person going for a PPL is going to be looking for quality not price so much. The student wants to learn to fly safely not cheaply and worry every flight if he is gonna get home at the end of the day. Those of us flying for years lose sight of the fact that most everyone else is apprehensive about going up in a plane.
 
somorris said:
The CFI's aren't comfortable with me flying over there and picking them up, so I rent.
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Wow, that's a first for me... :eek:

Wonder if the CFI's are being held captive by the flight school to some type of agreement that they can only work their rental aircraft? I certainly prefer doing air work (FR, IPC, etc...) in my plane. Kinda defeats to purpose by going to another plane even though it's allowed under the regs. Even if you happen to own the same type your renting, it's still not your plane...

Brian
 
flight2000 said:
Wow, that's a first for me... :eek:

Wonder if the CFI's are being held captive by the flight school to some type of agreement that they can only work their rental aircraft? I certainly prefer doing air work (FR, IPC, etc...) in my plane. Kinda defeats to purpose by going to another plane even though it's allowed under the regs. Even if you happen to own the same type your renting, it's still not your plane...

Brian
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I don't see it mentioned, but it could be the type of airplane or its condition driving the choice there too. There are several local airplanes/airplane owners I would not fly in or with no matter how much money I received.

I'm not saying this necessarily the case here, but it is a possibility.
 
mondtster said:
I don't see it mentioned, but it could be the type of airplane or its condition driving the choice there too. There are several local airplanes/airplane owners I would not fly in or with no matter how much money I received.

I'm not saying this necessarily the case here, but it is a possibility.
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It had crossed my mind as a reason, but I was trying to be nice.... :D

Brian
 
flight2000 said:
Wow, that's a first for me... :eek:

Wonder if the CFI's are being held captive by the flight school to some type of agreement that they can only work their rental aircraft? I certainly prefer doing air work (FR, IPC, etc...) in my plane. Kinda defeats to purpose by going to another plane even though it's allowed under the regs. Even if you happen to own the same type your renting, it's still not your plane...

Brian
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The instructors at the last airport where I was based seemed to have only instructor ratings for Archer and Seminole.
 
flight2000 said:
It had crossed my mind as a reason, but I was trying to be nice.... :D

Brian
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That's not unique to just individuals planes, I've seen some fight school planes which were, well interesting.

Think the non 172 planes might intimidate some lower time guys, also some probably don't really know how to go about freelance, especially the younger guys who are in their first flying job.
 
flight2000 said:
It had crossed my mind as a reason, but I was trying to be nice.... :D

Brian
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Thanks Brian, I appreciate it, but that (i.e. the condition of my airplane) is not the case. It would be nice if we had a few more independent CFI's here.
 
MauleSkinner said:
The instructors at the last airport where I was based seemed to have only instructor ratings for Archer and Seminole.
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That was one of the things I was trying to get at with my previous post too, not just the condition of the airplane or the quality of the pilot. Some CFIs seem to take the ultra conservative approach of not instructing in anything they haven't been checked out in. On the other hand, I've run across some CFIs that should be restricted to only Archers and Seminoles as well.
 
James331 said:
That's not unique to just individuals planes, I've seen some fight school planes which were, well interesting.
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That fits the description of the military flying club C172 I was flying back in 2009. That is what ultimately drove me to buying my own plane. That and I was tired of getting those mass emails chastising everyone for everything under the sun that was wrong with the C172.

Brian
 
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