I did the unthinkable...

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

May the force be with you
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
16,415
Display Name
Display name:
Sixer
I told my wife what it cost to fly. :eek:

So I have had my plane for 1 year and put 70 hours on it.
Flying a Grumman Traveler, here are the numbers:
AA5 Cost.jpg
So $165/ hr all inclusive to fly ~118 kts plane w/ 860 lbs useful load

Next year, oil changes will be done by me, there will be no ferrying charge, and hopefully no major repairs which would bring the numbers down to these:
AA5 Cost2019.jpg

At any rate This little blue plane took me to Gastons, Kentucky, Oklahoma, San Antonio, Missouri, and a bunch of $100 burger runs and it is about to take me to Osh!

I feel like I am flying a plane that is a step above a basic trainer and the price per hour is not bad.

Caveats:
These are just the "ownership costs" and don't factor in the price of the plane.
My plane has a payment associated with it but everyone's would be different based on cash vs. loan, etc.

If my engine goes tits up, I will pay for it out of my pocket. I don't add money into any sort of maintenance account per hour.

Also:
In hindsight, I think I would be having a better month if I hadn't told her how much it costs.
I am not going to tell her how many hours I flew the Cirrus. o_O
 
Last edited:
Fact in life: You'll have at least 1-2 "major" maintenance events per year if you use your plane for 50-70 hours. Count 2-5k for those.
It's still cheap to own an airplane.
 
I’m just impressed that your monthly operating costs are similar to what I’ve seen quoted as monthly fees for hangars in my area.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I told my wife what it cost to fly. :eek:

So I have had my plane for 1 year and put 70 hours on it.
Flying a Grumman Traveler, here are the numbers:
View attachment 64971
So $114/ hr all inclusive to fly ~118 kts plane w/ 860 lbs useful load

Next year, oil changes will be done by me, there will be no ferrying charge, and hopefully no major repairs which would bring the numbers down to these:
View attachment 64973

At any rate This little blue plane took me to Gastons, Kentucky, Oklahoma, San Antonio, Missouri, and a bunch of $100 burger runs and it is about to take me to Osh!

I feel like I am flying a plane that is a step above a basic trainer and the price per hour is not bad.

Caveats:
These are just the "ownership costs" and don't factor in the price of the plane.
MY plane has a payment associated with it but everyone's would be different based on cash vs. loan, etc.

If my engine goes tits up, I will pay for it out of my pocket. I don't add money into any sort of maintenance account per hour.

Also:
In hindsight, I think I would be having a better month if I hadn't told her how much it costs.
I am not going to tell her how many hours I flew the Cirrus. o_O
Click to expand...

I think you are foolin yer self a bit......add in your financed cost. It is total cost of ownership. On my ride, the monthly note is half of my expenses.
 
When I saw the title of the thread said, "I did the unthinkable..." I thought maybe you had slipped with flaps or something. I didn't think it was going to be this bad!
 
$4/hr in fuel? Yeah you Grumman guys always have to BS about something.
 
How did you find hanger for $150 per month or are you sharing it with 8 other guys?
 
I don't see "annual" in there. But my coffee hasn't kicked in yet so I may have missed it.
 
EdFred said:
$4/hr in fuel? Yeah you Grumman guys always have to BS about something.
Click to expand...

$4 per gallon is what that means, look far right and it says $32 per hour. Yeah, I know you knew that and you were just busting his chops, but this just isn’t POA if someone doesn’t misunderstand and get all ****y. :stirpot:
 
Unit74 said:
I think you are foolin yer self a bit......add in your financed cost. It is total cost of ownership. On my ride, the monthly note is half of my expenses.
Click to expand...

Added but it is variable for me. My financed costs were done via a HELOC so the minimum payment is like a hundred bucks a month.
What I actually pay changes since I don't want to pay it off a little quicker.
 
aeroknot said:
How did you find hanger for $150 per month or are you sharing it with 8 other guys?
Click to expand...
I pay 185 a month for a 40-foot t-hangar with electric and completely enclosed with an electric bi-fold door.
 
I'm afraid to do said calculation. And I have no wife to hide it from :)

My insurance is 1.5x, my hangar is 10x, and my annuals run .5x. But I'm stuck in the "Need more hours to make it look good" camp.
 
My hangar is a killer at 2x what Bryan pays. All-in, my fixed costs are about $5k/yr on insurance, hangar, and taxes.

After that, it's about $50/hr for fuel, oil, plugs, and tires.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I told my wife what it cost to fly. :eek:

So I have had my plane for 1 year and put 70 hours on it.
Flying a Grumman Traveler, here are the numbers:
View attachment 64977
So $165/ hr all inclusive to fly ~118 kts plane w/ 860 lbs useful load

Next year, oil changes will be done by me, there will be no ferrying charge, and hopefully no major repairs which would bring the numbers down to these:
View attachment 64978

At any rate This little blue plane took me to Gastons, Kentucky, Oklahoma, San Antonio, Missouri, and a bunch of $100 burger runs and it is about to take me to Osh!

I feel like I am flying a plane that is a step above a basic trainer and the price per hour is not bad.

Caveats:
These are just the "ownership costs" and don't factor in the price of the plane.
My plane has a payment associated with it but everyone's would be different based on cash vs. loan, etc.

If my engine goes tits up, I will pay for it out of my pocket. I don't add money into any sort of maintenance account per hour.

Also:
In hindsight, I think I would be having a better month if I hadn't told her how much it costs.
I am not going to tell her how many hours I flew the Cirrus. o_O
Click to expand...
Doesn’t she post here? I think you’re just posturing and Mrs. 6PC has to approve your expenditures.
 
Here is my comparison to 6PC
Monthly annual
Insurance $146 $1,750
Hangar 425 5,100
Oil changes 83 1,000
Starter/battery/misc 117 1,400
ADSB 417 5,000
fuel (130 hrs @ $4.5/g) 49 585
Annual 200 2,400
loan pmt - -

Total $1,436 $17,235

And this doesn't include things like hotels that we would have needed if we weren't flying "somewhere", or any other myriad of things I forgot.

I tried twice to fix the format after copying from excel, then gave up.
 
Last edited:
I think it's important to understand what the numbers look like... whether you share them with anyone or not.

And I'm really, really happy to be flying what I am now.
 
JOhnH said:
Here is my comparison to 6PC
Monthly annual
Insurance $146 $1,750
Hangar 425 5,100
Oil changes 83 1,000
Starter/battery/misc 117 1,400
ADSB 417 5,000
fuel (130 hrs @ $4.5/g) 49 585
Annual 200 2,400
loan pmt - -

Total $1,436 $17,235

And this doesn't include things like hotels that we would have needed if we weren't flying "somewhere", or any other myriad of things I forgot.
Click to expand...

$1000 for oil changes???????
 
EdFred said:
$1000 for oil changes???????
Click to expand...
I don't do them myself any more, so I pay my A&P to do them every three months, including oil analysis. About $250 a shot.
12 qts oil = $84
oil anal ~ 30
1 hr labor 80
______
$194 plus he charges for a small fee for supplies and things and there are always a few little squawks to be looked at, so $1,000/year is pretty close.
 
My numbers are similar for my Cardinal...a little more for hangar, a little less for annual since I do owner assisted. I did have a major avionics upgrade this year but that's a once in a lifetime event.

My wife doesn't know the exact numbers but every time I question a shoe or jewelry purchase she looks me square in the eye and says "You have an airplane."
 
I saw "did the unthinkable," thought someone bought an airplane. Then saw Sixie's name and had no idea what was going on.

Now I understand the unthinkableness of his action: he is creating an artificial "hourly" cost for his fixed expenses, so that the cost goes down if he flies more.

His chart should look like this:

20180714_093809.jpg
Which shows that his plane is costing $501.42 per month whether he flies or not, plus $37 for each flight hour. Because really, his hangar rent is not based on his flight hours and will cost the same $150 each month, whether his plane ever leaves it or not.

Oops, there is also the Ownership Costs, which I forgot to tally up [just one disadvantage of using Excel on a tablet], another $5200 in annual, ferry and repairs.
 
DaleB said:
I think it's important to understand what the numbers look like...
Click to expand...

Only if you fly a hang glider. In all other cases this is a really, really bad idea.
We all know in the back of our minds flying is a "risky" activity.
No point in using spreadsheets and confessions to the spouse to bring all that to the conscious foreground. ;)
 
Hank S said:
I saw "did the unthinkable," thought someone bought an airplane. Then saw Sixie's name and had no idea what was going on.

Now I understand the unthinkableness of his action: he is creating an artificial "hourly" cost for his fixed expenses, so that the cost goes down if he flies more.

His chart should look like this:

View attachment 64980
Which shows that his plane is costing $501.42 per month whether he flies or not, plus $37 for each flight hour. Because really, his hangar rent is not based on his flight hours and will cost the same $150 each month, whether his plane ever leaves it or not.

Oops, there is also the Ownership Costs, which I forgot to tally up [just one disadvantage of using Excel on a tablet], another $5200 in annual, ferry and repairs.
Click to expand...

Having trouble with a couple of things on your chart.

Looks like you are double dipping the fuel, as it is shown in both the "monthly" and "hourly" columns.
The cost of the annual should be in the "monthly" column.

I agree with your handling of the ferry cost as a one time expense; I would consider part of the cost of acquisition, not an operating expense.

I put the expenses in three categories for mine: Fixed - independent of the Hobbs (insurance, hangar rent, annual inspection, etc), variable-correlated to the Hobbs (fuel, oil, landing/parking fees, all maintenance including anything resulting from the annual inspection) and opportunity cost (the cost of having capital tied up in the plane, either in the form of cash not available for something else, or the debt servicing cost if there is a loan against the plane).

When one tallies up the all-in, complete cost of ownership one realizes why the best policy is to fergetaboutit and go flying. :blueplane::thumbsup:
 
Last edited:
GRG55 said:
Fixed - independent of the Hobbs, variable-correlated to the Hobbs
Click to expand...

He said Hobbs... Why you dissin' Calvin?

I guess I'm lucky my planes don't have Hobbs meters... I must be flying for free?!?
 
Numbers pretty much in line with my 4 banger single retract for the hours flown. So much for that retract cost penalty. I figured that out in hindsight after I traded from the Warrior. The added operating expenditures of additional systems were not inflection points in the least they way I had forecasted them to be. Capital entry has always been the real barrier for me when it comes to these comparisons, not opex and mx.
 
Lachlan said:
Is this all based off Hobbs (clock) hours or tach hours?
Click to expand...

Tach hours is all I have in my plane, besides an installed clock and my watch.

Maintenance = tach hours.

Flight Time = clock time.

Fuel changes, endurance, etc., are all based on the clock, since it doesn't vary depending on RPMs.
 
JOhnH said:
I don't do them myself any more, so I pay my A&P to do them every three months, including oil analysis. About $250 a shot.
12 qts oil = $84
oil anal ~ 30
1 hr labor 80
______
$194 plus he charges for a small fee for supplies and things and there are always a few little squawks to be looked at, so $1,000/year is pretty close.
Click to expand...

Yipes. I do mine for like 75.00. I only put in 7qts since anything above 7 gets blown out in the first hour of flight anyway and I'm getting my oil weight cheaper than what you're paying.
 
Hagar is just over 200mo, but I also use it for other stuff too

Annuals are about $1200 yr (owner assist)

Plane burns 15GPH of 100LL (no auto fuel STC for the engine)


That’s really all I track, I change the oil at 50hrs, some X/C with a little camguard, not much airworthy needed mx, mostly me upgrading things or being OCD about the plane.

Think if you try to break down every little thing into a hourly number you could make owning a used Honda seem like something only the rich and famous could afford.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top