I broke rules....

CharlieD3

CharlieD3

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Display name:
CharlieD3
... Safely and competently.

Just one hour flight time after my FR sign off, and with only 110 total logged hours over 30 years, I broke the following rules.

1. I flew a friend up for a sightseeing trip.
2. I flew over mountainous terrain. (The highest peaks in the Smoky Mountains).
3. I landed at an unfamiliar airport, out of state.
4. I started to go thru a class C airspace, with approval, radio and radar contact. But, I changed my mind and circumnavigated the airspace after terminating radar service.
5. We did not wear masks.

Nobody died, I even let my non-pilot friend fly the plane some.

I was prepared to turn around at any time should any flight anomalies develop. In fact, I diverted to a different airport for my out of state landing due to the fact that the originally chosen mountain valley airport was socked in by low clouds and low visibility.

I am not a flying god. I am a "signed-off-as a 'safe and competent' pilot."

Furthermore: I went to my doc and got her part of Basic Med completed. So, after I take the on-line test, I will be able to do this reckless behavior again and again, until my next FR, for up to 48 months.

I hope any rusty pilots aboard POA will follow suit as long as they feel comfortable and have the appropriate documentation to do so, legally. In fact, I strongly recommend it!

If you're a newly minted pilot, you should be far more proficient than I. Do not hesitate to share the experience of flight with anyone who wants to go with you. You don't need hundreds of hours of broad experience. You just have to be able to set limitations on yourself, and be prepared to return to base before things become unsafe.

Enjoy this avocation... While we're still able.

fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
 
Those rules your wife made for you?
 
That's the point. I DIDN'T break any rules. But, numerous times on POA, I've witnessed some newly/recently minted pilot ask if he should take friends up.

And the responses tend to be in the "Get lots more experience before you do such a thing" vein.

But, I suppose, if you're unconfident enough to ask... Maybe you might want to wait a bit....

I just want GA to grow... And now's a perfect time since there's a whole lot less heavy iron in the air.

fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
 
I don't have that opinion. right after the checkride, you're very sharp. Good time to take friends/family up for some sightseeing flights.
 
CharlieD3 said:
That's the point. I DIDN'T break any rules. But, numerous times on POA, I've witnessed some newly/recently minted pilot ask if he should take friends up.

And the responses tend to be in the "Get lots more experience before you do such a thing" vein.

But, I suppose, if you're unconfident enough to ask... Maybe you might want to wait a bit....

I just want GA to grow... And now's a perfect time since there's a whole lot less heavy iron in the air.

fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
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I can't really recall seeing a post that said a new pilot should wait...in fact I've seen the exact opposite with the comments "you're probably as safe as you'll ever be" so go for it.
 
I think you are fine.....unless you are a YouTuber....
 
Bill Jennings said:
I don't have that opinion. right after the checkride, you're very sharp. Good time to take friends/family up for some sightseeing flights.
Click to expand...

That seems to be the types of posts I've seen on here...other than someone saying a new pilot took their daughter up.
 
I suspect you also did things to mitigate risk, like good weather, your “out” plan, a willingness to immediately abort if anything felt off about it all, etc.

Some of our “rules of thumb” here just can’t measure total attitude and circumstance like weather and such so they’re lowest common denominator answers.

And definitely can’t make your friend’s risk decisions for him remotely, so passenger rules of thumb can vary wildly. :)
 
denverpilot said:
I suspect you also did things to mitigate risk...
Click to expand...

Of course. I think all of that goes without saying... But then, I'm sure it doesn't.

But, we're pilots. That's no small thing. Flying is not a right. It's a privilege we've (by God) EARNED.

With rights, come responsibilities... With privileges, moreso.

I am Pilot In Command. The responsibility lays squarely on my shoulders for every flight I commence. Even, if I don't get airborne. From "CLEAR!" to shutdown, the souls aboard are my responsibility. Even in my lowly-high-time-club-owned-rented 172N.

A high time CFII with majors time, bush experience, and a gazillion hours signed me off. Even so, I know I'm ragged, but safe and competent.

I will forever work on proficiency. Part of that includes dealing with the desires and pressures of those who ride along... Distracting, conversant, passenger(s) who would love to do "barrel rows" and mow Mountain treetops with the propeller... But enjoyed the flight without any of that....

fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
 
CharlieD3 said:
... Safely and competently.

Just one hour flight time after my FR sign off, and with only 110 total logged hours over 30 years, I broke the following rules.

1. I flew a friend up for a sightseeing trip.
2. I flew over mountainous terrain. (The highest peaks in the Smoky Mountains).
3. I landed at an unfamiliar airport, out of state.
4. I started to go thru a class C airspace, with approval, radio and radar contact. But, I changed my mind and circumnavigated the airspace after terminating radar service.
5. We did not wear masks.

Nobody died, I even let my non-pilot friend fly the plane some.

I was prepared to turn around at any time should any flight anomalies develop. In fact, I diverted to a different airport for my out of state landing due to the fact that the originally chosen mountain valley airport was socked in by low clouds and low visibility.

I am not a flying god. I am a "signed-off-as a 'safe and competent' pilot."

Furthermore: I went to my doc and got her part of Basic Med completed. So, after I take the on-line test, I will be able to do this reckless behavior again and again, until my next FR, for up to 48 months.

I hope any rusty pilots aboard POA will follow suit as long as they feel comfortable and have the appropriate documentation to do so, legally. In fact, I strongly recommend it!

If you're a newly minted pilot, you should be far more proficient than I. Do not hesitate to share the experience of flight with anyone who wants to go with you. You don't need hundreds of hours of broad experience. You just have to be able to set limitations on yourself, and be prepared to return to base before things become unsafe.

Enjoy this avocation... While we're still able.

fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
Click to expand...
The plane you were flying; high wing, low wing, composite :eek:, or Bonanza? Either way you broke a rule. Just curious.
 
Tantalum said:
The plane you were flying; high wing, low wing, composite :eek:, or Bonanza? Either way you broke a rule. Just curious.
Click to expand...
Yes.

fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
 
CharlieD3 said:
fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
Click to expand...
Do you type this on each of your posts? I don't see signatures on mobile, but I noticed this on your last post because it seemed like a non sequitur and then I saw it's on all your posts.
 
Lindberg said:
Do you type this on each of your posts? I don't see signatures on mobile, but I noticed this on your last post because it seemed like a non sequitur and then I saw it's on all your posts.
Click to expand...
It's my sig... Instead of phone brand and model

fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
 
Entering the realm where legal may not be safe.

I can be perfectly safe for you to do all the things you did. But it can also not be. It is all about risk management and you no longer have a CFI (unless you ask) looking over your should to help you evaluate those risks.

For example, have you ever flown your plane with more than 1 person onboard, assuming legal to do. Have you ever flown it fully loaded? How about fully loaded on a hot day into an unfamiliar airport, with an air sick passenger.

Maybe not the best things to do on your 1st hour as a private pilot, with unsuspecting passengers that don’t know you have never done those things before. On the other hand if you did all those things in training Or give yourself large safety margins, it might be perfectly safe. But it could be a better idea to have your CFI at least review your plans with you. They will know best if you should maybe fly with them with a fully loaded plane Or some other scenario you might not have experienced or considered before you try it on your own or not.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
PlasticCigar said:
Most drunk drivers make it home safely most of the time. Doesn’t mean it isn’t a dumb thing to do.

Doing something and “getting away with it” doesn’t mean that was a good choice.

I’m not saying you did anything dumb, but that kind of reasoning has lead to a lot of people doing a lot of idiotic things.

I’m glad you had fun.
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I didn't "get away" with anything. What I did was not "a dumb thing to do."

It was thought out, planned, and executed to plan, including 2 alternate airports, a go/no go decision at every phase of flight, with the expected and hoped for end result.

Just as EVERY flight should be.

Was there risk? Yes, and on the way to the doc after the flight, there was a 3 car accident at an intersection just 1/4 mile from the doc's office. Personal injury, one SUV on its top. Somebody got T-boned by someone else...

But my flight went well, and we had fun.

fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
 
brcase said:
Entering the realm where legal may not be safe.

I can be perfectly safe for you to do all the things you did. But it can also not be. It is all about risk management and you no longer have a CFI (unless you ask) looking over your should to help you evaluate those risks.

For example, have you ever flown your plane with more than 1 person onboard, assuming legal to do. Have you ever flown it fully loaded? How about fully loaded on a hot day into an unfamiliar airport, with an air sick passenger.

Maybe not the best things to do on your 1st hour as a private pilot, with unsuspecting passengers that don’t know you have never done those things before. On the other hand if you did all those things in training Or give yourself large safety margins, it might be perfectly safe. But it could be a better idea to have your CFI at least review your plans with you. They will know best if you should maybe fly with them with a fully loaded plane Or some other scenario you might not have experienced or considered before you try it on your own or not.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
Click to expand...

Not unsafe. No "barrel rows*" done, no mountain top trees mowed.

No, I didn't have my CFII looking over my shoulder.

Yes, I've flown the 172 loaded, not quite fully, on a warm day. But not at an unsafe w&b on a too high DA day (=unsafe and/or unwise), to an unfamiliar airport, with declining visibility at said airport... But still well above vfr minimums. I try my darndest not to expose an unfamiliar passenger to turbulent, uncomfortable air for their first flight...

Not my first hour as a PPL. And, I have done most of these things before. My CFII for my current FR, is not my nursemaid. He has seen me question weather on currency flights with him in the role of instructor. And has indicated (as a result of said flights and my questions) that he trusts my judgement.

*"Barrel row" was the term my "guinea pig" texted me telling me what he wanted to do.
(Education nowadays, sheesh) But as a young man over 21 who has never flown anywhere in anything I didn't expect him to know what they are, or the legality of same.

And there is the Kobiash Mairu (sp?) of POA.

fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
 
CharlieD3 said:
Of course. I think all of that goes without saying... But then, I'm sure it doesn't.

But, we're pilots. That's no small thing. Flying is not a right. It's a privilege we've (by God) EARNED.

With rights, come responsibilities... With privileges, moreso.

I am Pilot In Command. The responsibility lays squarely on my shoulders for every flight I commence. Even, if I don't get airborne. From "CLEAR!" to shutdown, the souls aboard are my responsibility. Even in my lowly-high-time-club-owned-rented 172N.

A high time CFII with majors time, bush experience, and a gazillion hours signed me off. Even so, I know I'm ragged, but safe and competent.

I will forever work on proficiency. Part of that includes dealing with the desires and pressures of those who ride along... Distracting, conversant, passenger(s) who would love to do "barrel rows" and mow Mountain treetops with the propeller... But enjoyed the flight without any of that....

fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
Click to expand...
The hours in your instructors logbook don’t matter when you are flying. Anecdotally the inexperienced instructors are a little tighter with endorsements for hard to quantify situations like yours because they have no real experience of their own.
 
PlasticCigar said:
Don’t worry. When I had 100 hours I thought I was a bada$$ and God’s gift to aviation as well. But then I was a teenager so that’s pretty normal behavior at that age.

Now, a few decades and several ratings later, I realize how much I didn’t know then and how much I don’t know now and how some of the things I did to myself and my unsuspecting passengers back then I would never do today. Not because I lack the ability, but because I’ve gained the judgement.

I sincerely hope you last long enough to let your judgement catch up to your perceived abilities.
Click to expand...
Wow... You really don't read for comprehension, do you?

Here's the cliff notes for you.

"A man's gotta know his limitations."

I know mine. And they're prolly a lot more safety oriented than you believe or understand.





fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
 
PlasticCigar said:
I’m sorry I misunderstood. I now understand that you think you have excellent knowledge and judgement. This wasn’t obvious in my initial reading of your post where you point out how you are leas proficient than a new pilot and practice evidence-based risk mitigation strategies such as not wearing masks.

My apologies for failing to appreciate your genius.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you recognize my mental acuity, but it's not something I advertise, or brag about.

Not wearing a mask in proximity to a person with whom I work 8 hours a day (also mostly without a mask) is not a risky behavior.

I might not go so far as to say or think that I have excellent knowledge and judgement, just the normal good kind.

I may in fact, be less (leas sic) proficient than a newly minted pilot. I try to make up for it with the aforementioned good judgement. Mitigating risk while completing tasks I wish to undertake, planning for contingencies, leaving good safe options open to excercise if needed.

But, carry on as vapidly as your moniker alludes.

fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
 
CharlieD3 said:
It's my sig... Instead of phone brand and model

fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
Click to expand...

If you’re using Tapatalk here, generally their version of signature plays poorly with the forum software. Most of us using it turn it off.

Reason: The forum itself has true signature fields in the profile. Whatever API integration Tapatalk uses has no idea either how to display them (nice!) or change them or use them properly (bad programmer, no donut!).

So it just puts it in the body field of the post. (Not where it belongs.)

No big deal but it’s different than almost everyone else. Example: I see it in Tapatalk but see no other signatures because TT is focused on displaying the discussion and not all the webpage fluff.

Well, other than the fluff we all post, that is! LOL
 
And I think some of you completely missed his sense of dry humor about this in the very first post, and now we’re already headed back into what he was joking about... that PoA always says we’re all gonna die. LOL

Subtlety just gets lost here sometimes! Haha.
 
denverpilot said:
And I think some of you completely missed his sense of dry humor about this in the very first post, and now we’re already headed back into what he was joking about... that PoA always says we’re all gonna die. LOL

Subtlety just gets lost here sometimes! Haha.
Click to expand...
Exactly!
Thanks. For. That.

I'll not further engage in the p****ing match.

fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
 
denverpilot said:
If you’re using Tapatalk here, generally their version of signature plays poorly with the forum software. Most of us using it turn it off.

Reason: The forum itself has true signature fields in the profile. Whatever API integration Tapatalk uses has no idea either how to display them (nice!) or change them or use them properly (bad programmer, no donut!).

So it just puts it in the body field of the post. (Not where it belongs.)

No big deal but it’s different than almost everyone else. Example: I see it in Tapatalk but see no other signatures because TT is focused on displaying the discussion and not all the webpage fluff.

Well, other than the fluff we all post, that is! LOL
Click to expand...
Fixed it. I use Tapatalk almost exclusively here.
 
CharlieD3 said:
Exactly!
Thanks. For. That.

I'll not further engage in the p****ing match.

fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
Click to expand...

I’m living the dream today. Busiest day of work this week and club members calling each other names on our club public FB page that I’m a volunteer Board member for.

They want the club to be their mommy. Not playing. Which made them think the entire club “took a side”. God **** it people no. I said we WON’T be your nanny.

All because adults can’t freaking communicate via written words anymore. Or never could. Either way.

Me today:

30239a0003dcd0c3d639ffe6d988c783.jpg


Rant off. Sorry. LOL
 
We all know all of that. But we act like we don’t around here for liability or whatever weird reasons.

Some of us been reading each other’s posts for a decade. Seriously.

If we stray from the approved safety script ... on everything... even just saying “yeah, you probably did it right, you’re back here, aren’t you?” ...

The thread ends up with some noob stating the obvious.

Take a look thru the archives. :)

Those that don’t exhibit a safety culture are pretty well known here, and even mildly razzed.

It’s okay. Not your fault. But nearly no one present didn’t know any of that. :)

Maybe we need badges that say “I posted the exact FAA safety wording once on the Internet” so we can all have a trophy. LOL.

And of course doing all this safety stuff must be done in a Bonanza here also. While arguing about whether hot dogs should have ketchup. And deep dish or thin crust. While hearing about Sac Arrow’s latest hot burger girl he ordered a lettuce wrapped burger from... Maybe while taking off on a treadmill to the sweet strains of Celine Dion played by @eman1200. :)

It’s all good, man... the OP was definitely making fun of the repetitiveness here, not being serious about his chosen flight risks. :)
 
denverpilot said:
We all know all of that. But we act like we don’t around here for liability or whatever weird reasons.

Some of us been reading each other’s posts for a decade. Seriously.

If we stray from the approved safety script ... on everything... even just saying “yeah, you probably did it right, you’re back here, aren’t you?” ...

The thread ends up with some noob stating the obvious.
Click to expand...
Haha, I think the problem is that there is always someone like that kid who turned in the guy who made his 'clear of the runway' call 3 seconds too soon. This is a public forum so you don't know who's out there. A little different than hangar flying. So, if you don't want to get into trouble you toe the legal line, especially if you are active, even more if it's your job that could be on the line.
 
PlasticCigar said:
My apologies. You guys are quite an enlightened group of aviators. My apologies for being the noob stating the obvious and my admiration at the caliber of POA readers for already knowing all of that
Click to expand...

Heck no. We’re a bunch of idiots on the internet. That’s what the internet of for and always has been. That and cat photos. :)
 
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