I applied for 3rd class. Now I am too far to turn back.

Mike D Snyder

Filing Flight Plan
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Dec 23, 2021
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Aerialone
So three weeks ago I applied for 3rd class med. I am on celexa at 20 mg from my pcp. for anxiety. I have been on the celexa since april 2017 . So I filled out my paperwork not knowing it was going to be a problem. Ame said it shouldn't be a problem just get a letter from my doctor. So here we are 3 weeks later FAA says I have to go the hims route. I talked to an AME that specializes He said I should go with staying on the celexa cause FAA will have a problem if I get off of it. I figured no problem I will just keep talking it and do what they want. Now that I am looking farther into this I am ****ed. I sure don't want to deal with a physiatrist and an Ame 3hrs away every six months and a phycologist every two years for the rest of my Life. When I started talking to people they made it seem like ame was once a year and that was it after the special issuance. I am just doing this for a hobby. I want to build a kit and fly it. I don't know what to do ? Worst part about it. I don't even know if I need the celexa. My wife begged me to get on it cause she said I was mean and miserable. Any advice is welcome. Oh original AME called today and said disregard my letter cause they got the letter from my pcp. and they were going to review it. Like that you know they are still going to tell me the same thing. Thanks
 
Be thankful you accidentally got an AME who seems willing to help you. Most would not.
 
Do you have one and only one period of exposure to the Celexa?
Is your DMV record clean?
This all makes a difference.....yeah you are in it pretty good :(.
 
I really need my medical records to see what is in there . I think I had different meds over the years but I never stopped taking anything and started again. Never hav had a dui or even a close call. I don't even really drink. I have never even tried pot. I wish I would have never even taken anything. I just had normal stress. I was starting my business working two jobs my wife was pregnant having complications. My mom died 18years ago TODAY cancer 12 days from being diagnosed. The last coherent conversation I had with her was the 12th. 2018 by stepson killed himself. Yes I have had stress. I have never tried to hurt myself anyone. else.
 
Your choices are -

1) abandon the medical. The medical turns into a denial and you are grounded from all flying. Maybe take up sailing.
2) Grab on, get stubborn about not quitting and run the gauntlet. This is expensive, it takes time and in the end, you may still get a denial and be grounded. If the questions Dr Chien asked are right, then you should go for it.
 
I can understand how applicants get caught by surprise. But why on earth did the AME say it wouldn't be a problem???
 
It really is ashame there is so many pcps out there putting people on SSRI 's. I feel like they prescribe it for everything. Know people are just getting destroyed on their dreams. When you are younger you just do what you are told because you think everyone else knows better. I know from now on if anyone ever is talking about getting on a SSRI I will strongly oppose it.
 
I have been doing alot of reading and maybe some can clarify. If I get through this and get a special issuance can I eventually go Basic med?
 
I have been doing alot of reading and maybe some can clarify. If I get through this and get a special issuance can I eventually go Basic med?


You will have to satisfy the terms of the Special Issuance until the medical expires. Once the medical expires, it can no longer be revoked and you can go with Basic Med.

I suspect that most people on Basic Med are using it to avoid an onerous SI.
 
Do you have one and only one period of exposure to the Celexa?
Is your DMV record clean?
This all makes a difference.....yeah you are in it pretty good :(.
I have been doing a lot of thinking about this stuff. When you say only one period of exposure is that on and off? I think I may have been on something since 01 I may of changed meds over the years but I was never on and off again. It also would have only been the lowest dosage. Do you see this being a problem? I also recently put in for a sleep study . I have done nothing with it yet other than scheduled a consult. Should I wait or is that just going to be something added to the fire since it was already scheduled. I am just trying to decide on what I should do . If there is a chance I am willing to fight.
 
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SSRIs are great drugs for the right patient, for the right reason- and those reasons are numerous.
That may be true, but In my case I feel like it wasn't the right choice. I was put on it cause my wife said I was mad all the time . I have never had a panic attack or any emotional breakdown . I feel like it just gets prescribed to often and too fast. My step son said he was depressed and he was smoking pot. He claimed self medication. We convinced him to see his pcp. He was put on zoloft he said it made him want to kill himself. 3days later he did. So please excuse me for having this opinion. I don't intend this to be rude.
 
Of that wasn’t a mistype, on meds since 01= Chronic, therefore expected to be recurrent, disease (anything over 5 years).

but you only have to do the on SSRI program ONCE. The you do what half fast sez......
 
I went BasicMed after a career full of USAF flight physical becauseI found the FAA med certification process to be too onerous in and of itself, much less if a CACI or SI were to come up.
 
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I went basicmed just to avoid the hassle of a separate AME visit and gathering the information for the several CACI issues I had, no SI. Handing the basicmed form to my regular doctor when I'm there anyway is a lot easier.
 
If I get my 3rd class I will go basic med when I can. This Is all new to me I only have 7 hrs of training so far. I have done r/c for 30 years. Now that the pandemic has ruined that sport and a lot of businesses. I was looking for something new. I have been an excavator for 20 years and was hoping to eventually retire and do aerial inspection work and become a CFI. Not the end of the world just a big disappointment and a curveball. I really feel bad for guys that this is there job and they get grounded.
 
Wow! I think you’re way off base on that.

Maybe not a majority, but it likely is very large percentage. I qualify for a 3rd Class, but just have no need for it. I have had to deal the FAA over kidney stones before and they forced me to spend nearly 3 AMUs on medically unnecessary testing (as defined by my urologist) to get my 3rd Class back.

OP, if you want to fly, your best path now is to tough it through the SI process then go Basic Med. Life dealt you a ___ sandwich for awhile. I wish the docs could do better at recognizing and helping people through situational anxiety without making it a life-long diagnosis. In the end, at least you're in a better spot now than if you self-medicated with ethanol.
 
Maybe not a majority, but it likely is very large percentage. I qualify for a 3rd Class, but just have no need for it. I have had to deal the FAA over kidney stones before and they forced me to spend nearly 3 AMUs on medically unnecessary testing (as defined by my urologist) to get my 3rd Class back.

OP, if you want to fly, your best path now is to tough it through the SI process then go Basic Med. Life dealt you a ___ sandwich for awhile. I wish the docs could do better at recognizing and helping people through situational anxiety without making it a life-long diagnosis. In the end, at least you're in a better spot now than if you self-medicated with ethanol.
haha yeah I have never been a drinker or use illegal drugs. I have always been proud of this. My conversation with my pcp has always been how are you feeling I say good and he says see you next year. In my eyes taking a ssri was no different than taking an ibuprofen. Well that theory is completely shot in the foot. The biggest problem I guess I have is I wanted to build an experimental stol. I know I can start but if I get denied then I am out the money in the plane. I know I can sell it but I will never get the money out of it. The unknown is what sucks.
 
There is a huge problem in the healthcare industry involving professionals (PCPs, psychiatrists, and psychologists) and the insurance system. It monetarily incentivizes abnormality. I’m not saying private healthcare is bad; the fraud in our socialized portion (Medicare) is even worse. I’m saying when it comes to mental health, there should be much more use of the diagnosis “worried well” and less push to use pharmaceuticals.
 
Well there’s also the bit about doctors tending toward altruism, and if a patient comes in with a complaint then we feel compelled to help him. Often patients have already tried remedies on their own, usually with unsatisfactory results else they would not be seeing their doctor for further treatment, so out comes the prescription pad. In my experience anything less usually leads to patient dissatisfaction, and Rushie, if you think the healthcare system is broken with regards to diagnosis incentives you should see how crazy it is when it comes to patient satisfaction survey scores.

OP, if your doctor had said to you, “Dude there’s nothing wrong with you, you’re just stressed. Go download a meditation app or just learn to deal with it. Or since your wife is the one who seems to have the problem with you maybe she should see her doctor about getting on Celexa. I’ve got nothing else for you,” would you have been satisfied with that? It’s not rhetorical, I’m genuinely curious. What did you expect out of that visit?
 
Well there’s also the bit about doctors tending toward altruism, and if a patient comes in with a complaint then we feel compelled to help him. Often patients have already tried remedies on their own, usually with unsatisfactory results else they would not be seeing their doctor for further treatment, so out comes the prescription pad. In my experience anything less usually leads to patient dissatisfaction, and Rushie, if you think the healthcare system is broken with regards to diagnosis incentives you should see how crazy it is when it comes to patient satisfaction survey scores.

OP, if your doctor had said to you, “Dude there’s nothing wrong with you, you’re just stressed. Go download a meditation app or just learn to deal with it. Or since your wife is the one who seems to have the problem with you maybe she should see her doctor about getting on Celexa. I’ve got nothing else for you,” would you have been satisfied with that? It’s not rhetorical, I’m genuinely curious. What did you expect out of that visit?

The professionals have no malice, they do really want to help. It’s the whole system for good or ill, and there is a lot of good, real illness needs to be treated and pharmaceuticals are literal lifesavers. Then there is the other side of the coin. They’re tools for good or misused and overprescribed. It goes beyond the healthcare system too. When half the country is obese and never sees the sun, no wonder they’re miserable. Don’t misunderstand, I’m not blaming the professionals so much as the totality of modern life and the system we’re all caught up in.
 
She is on medication. I honestly have no memory of even getting on the med. I know if he would have said this may mess you up for getting a pilots license I would have said. I don't want it. From your last comment it seems like you are more worried about a survey then treatment you said it I didn't

"In my experience anything less usually leads to patient dissatisfaction, and Rushie, if you think the healthcare system is broken with regards to diagnosis incentives you should see how crazy it is when it comes to patient satisfaction survey scores."
 
I know if he would have said this may mess you up for getting a pilots license I would have said. I don't want it.

It's not the PCP's responsibility to know the medical requirements for pilot medical certification. Most PCPs are stretched so thin these days they barely have time to pee during their workday. Now if your PCP happens to also be a pilot or AME, sure, they're going to know, but that's not 99% of them. As NightSkyReader said, when they have a patient in front of them asking for help, and a reasonable expectation that an SSRI might help, what do you think they're going to do? PCPs don't have the time or inclination to do talk therapy, and most patients are not satisfied being told to suck it up, there's nothing to offer. It's unfair to malign the PCP for the position you've found yourself in.

Of course, the aspiring pilot doesn't know what he or she doesn't know. However, there's this thing called the internet, whereby anyone can access forums like this, or even the aviation medical examiner's guide. There has to be some personal responsibility. I can't imagine wanting to begin any activity, which almost anyone realizes has some minimum requirements, without researching online to see what those requirements might entail. I recently decided to purchase a handgun and obtain a concealed carry permit. Not previously being a gun enthusiast or a shooter, I spent weeks researching the various types of weapons available for purchase, and perusing the requirements for obtaining a license in my state. I can't fathom the idea of just walking into a gun shop without doing any prior research.

I also take issue with the CFI community for failing to inform potential students that there ARE medical certification standards. Too many CFIs still tell folks that anyone who can fog a mirror can obtain a medical certificate, which those who frequent this forum know is not true. The CFI doesn't need to delve into the student's medical history, but they certainly are capable of telling prospects, "If you have any of these conditions, it might be an issue, so you should consult with an AME or do some research on your own to be sure you can be certified." If this simple step were taken with every potential student walking into a flight school, it could almost completely prevent the dashed hopes, wasted money, and blunders that we read about here on a regular basis, from wanna-be pilots who had absolutely no idea what they were getting into until the bell is rung, and it's too late to take a step back. When I served as the president and membership chairman of my flying club, I was usually the one with whom potential members first made contact. If they were not yet a student pilot, I always went over this before they joined. Sure, it cost us a few members who ultimately discovered they could not, or did not want to go through the hassles to obtain a medical certificate, but it was the right thing to do. There's absolutely no reason the CFIs can't do this as well.
 
Well 22 years ago when I got put this stuff I didn't have the internet. So fine it is my fault. I was told do my medical first . I was also told shouldn't be a problem. I went to FAA website and aopa both say approved . I saw special issuance somewhere and I asked, Agian I was told no problem an ame just signs off. I didn't even know what an ssri was until a week ago. It wasn't till I put in ssri I got any good information. I am going through the wright way. I think the whole is messed up. My medication hasn't changed me as a person. I was never depressed. I still take them. All I can do is move forward and see what happens.
 
Too many CFIs still tell folks that anyone who can fog a mirror can obtain a medical certificate, which those who frequent this forum know is not true.


The “anyone who can fog a mirror” condition is the case for many, if not most, CFIs and that may be part of the problem. All of my CFIs have been healthy 20-somethings holding 1st class medicals and heading for the airlines. It simply would never have occurred to them that a medical might be difficult, especially if the student is a few years older.

If you expect the FAA to require instructors to inform students about how snarled the FAA medical process is, prepare to be disappointed.
 
OP, if your doctor had said to you, “Dude there’s nothing wrong with you, you’re just stressed. Go download a meditation app or just learn to deal with it. Or since your wife is the one who seems to have the problem with you maybe she should see her doctor about getting on Celexa. I’ve got nothing else for you,” would you have been satisfied with that? It’s not rhetorical, I’m genuinely curious. What did you expect out of that visit?
FWIW, I went to an internist like that for nearly thirty years. I was upset when he retired.
 
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