I am so tired of deadbeats and their sob stories.

So we try to help and worry about $ later. At checkout, we attempt to secure payment or have a payment plan with dates agreed to, and signed. (none of these folks seem to have CCs or a checkbook)
And I have been ok with this, even though it is stealing (I usually see them later in the groc store buying smokes and beer, or on Facebook buying rec. vehicles and other toys).
What really bugs me is....they try to do it again and again!

In a small town, I would think that word would get around and known deadbeats would have a difficult time finding someone to help. As far as I'm concerned, Fluffy can kick it if no one is willing to cough up at least a deposit, exceptional circumstances aside. I'm really not heartless, but I try to avoid enabling unrepentant irresponsible behavior.

Especially around the time of the last recession, I ran into issues with [human] doctors' offices who would refuse service unless they had insurance and/or copayment or a verified credit card UP FRONT. As someone who always pays promptly, this really lit my fire, because many of them were quite demanding about it. The office staff at the dentist where my wife and I have been going for almost 20 years, and my wife's family for decades before that, informed my wife when she arrived at the office to have a crown fitted that she wouldn't be seen until AFTER she paid for the crown. I told them fine, nice knowing you, we'll find another dentist and good luck finding someone to pay for that crown. Eventually the dentist came out and said, "Sorry about the confusion, there is no issue here." I empathize with the problem of deadbeats, but for crying out loud don't take it out on your known good customers.


JKG
 
When I used to get checks returned, I would wait 15 to 30 days and re-submit. About 70% of the checks would clear.
 
Some businesses are different than others. HVAC is not usually seen as an immediate essential.

I'd bet it is when it's 0F outside. ;) 100F, maybe not.

Your story about the vet bills reminds me of when dad's favorite dog died. She had an aneurism but he didn't know that at the time. He found her curled up and whimpering in a corner of the house, tossed her in his truck and headed to the emergency vet.

When they arrived, the front desk lady blathered something about "I'm sorry but we have to run a card right now, you understand..." as the other tech and vet were working on the doomed dog. Dad was distraught and literally threw a credit card at her that probably had a $50,000 credit limit. "It's not about the ****ing money! There's $50,000 take whatever you want. It won't save my dog." he growled.

Of course the dog passed away shortly thereafter and dad came back the next day and brought lunch for the staff and flowers for the poor girl he snapped at.

He knew the dog was dying. Being reminded that many jerks don't pay their vet bills and don't plan for anything or have $10 in savings to take care of stuff, wasn't what he wanted to be thinking about at that moment. He wasn't a fan of jerks like that in the slightest. If you're going to commit to caring for an animal, it includes knowing what major medical costs for them.
 
On the flip side you get lots of slum lords too.

I paid mortgage level rates for a upstairs one bed apartment, when I first got my current job.

Shower/tub leaked into the downstairs tiles.

Well the tub was cut up to get it up the stairs than sealed back up after install, land lord accused me of not knowing how to shower, said I must be splashing water all about and not using the curtain, I told the cretin that I have been bathing myself for quite some time now, knew how to take a shower and she might want to look at this half ass install of the shower instead.

Crack head looking "handy man" shows up, smears some caulk over the existing caulk and calls it a day, whatever.

But wait there's more!, another time the bathroom sink FELL OFF THE WALL, it pulled off the cheap paint revealing the cheap wall paper behind it and the two little wood screws and glue that they used to "install" it to the wall, the handy crack head comes back, guerilla glue and longer screws, oh yeah!


Moving out, after buying my house, I rug doctored the place, even though it didn't need it, washed all the windows, still had some window spray left so I just doubble cleaned again instead of tossing the stuff in the trash.

Landlord steals 80 bucks out of my deposit saying the windows which I had double washed, were never cleaned, not worth the time to take her to court over 80 bucks.

So I hear ya, but it does go both ways.


Also I don't have a CC, don't believe in them, I have a checkbook with like 10 checks, never use them, but in my defense I pay my bills, own my stuff outright, just don't like the whole pro consumer buy, buy ,buy credit system.

The only people that don't get paid are ones who don't do the work, or super half ass it.
 
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On the flip side you get lots of slum lords too.

I paid mortgage level rates for a upstairs one bed apartment, when I first got my current job.

Shower/tub leaked into the downstairs tiles.

Well the tub was cut up to get it up the stairs than sealed back up after install, land lord accused me of not knowing how to shower, said I must be splashing water all about and not using the curtain, I told the cretin that I have been bathing myself for quite some time now, knew how to take a shower and she might want to look at this half ass install of the shower instead.

Crack head looking "handy man" shows up, smears some caulk over the existing caulk and calls it a day, whatever.

But wait there's more!, another time the bathroom sink FELL OFF THE WALL, it pulled off the cheap paint revealing the cheap wall paper behind it and the two little wood screws and glue that they used to "install" it to the wall, the handy crack head comes back, guerilla glue and longer screws, oh yeah!

Moving out, after buying my house, I rug doctored the place, even though it didn't need it, washed all the windows, still had some window spray left so I just doubble cleaned again instead of tossing the stuff in the trash.

Landlord steals 80 bucks out of my deposit saying the windows which I had double washed, were never cleaned, not worth the time to take her to court over 80 bucks.

So I hear ya, but it does go both ways.

. . . .

I once had a landlord who wanted to withhold all $1,400.00 of my security deposit because I left two trash bags in the living room. I'd left them there because my friend Gay Marc was the one who would be moving in after I left, and he'd agreed to take the bags out on "garbage day" so the landlord wouldn't get a ticket for having the bags at the curb on the wrong day.

But the landlord showed up before "garbage day," let himself in, saw that everything was gone except the two bags, and tried to withhold the entire $1,400.00.

Now mind you, my lease hadn't expired yet. Technically, the house was still mine for another two weeks. I'd rented the new place early so I'd had some overlap. So really, under New York City law, the landlord had no business even being in there absent an emergency. In addition, I'd completely repainted the place, cleaned it from top to bottom, had the hardwood floors professionally waxed, and had even lined up quality new tenants (my friend Gay Marc and his now-husband, both FDNY paramedics), so the landlord had zero downtime between tenants.

I'd also installed nice ceiling fans, shoveled the snow for the entire seven years I lived there (which is the landlord's responsibility under New York City law), planted flowers in the little plot of dirt in front of the house, painted the hallways, stripped and repainted the wrought-iron fence, sanded and repainted the wooden shelters, snaked the sewer pipe when it backed up, pumped the basement out after Hurricane Irene, and in general did whatever had to be done around the place.

None of it stopped the landlord from trying to screw me out of my $1,400.00.

I did get my money back. A quick phone call and a resulting nastygram from Lawyer Joe took care of that. But the landlord's actions illustrate why so many tenants in NYC blow off the last month's rent and tell the landlord to just keep the security deposit. New York City landlords are notorious for doing anything they can to avoid returning tenants' security deposits.

But on the other hand, there are landlords like Dog Guy Eddie, who had to ask me to leave quickly when he found out that the apartment he was renting me wasn't legal. It had been built in the loft as an observation post for the Army (or maybe Civil Defense) during WWII, and had been used as an apartment since then. But the previous owner had never filed the paperwork to make it legal, and the deadline had long passed to do so without prohibitively expensive modifications.

When Dog Guy Eddie evicted another tenant for being six months behind on his rent, the tenant filed a complaint about another modification in the building (splitting the second-floor apartment into two). Eddie had already legalized that one, but when the inspector came, he gigged Dog Guy Eddie on the third-story apartment, which Eddie thought had been legalized decades ago.

Long story short, I had to be gone within 30 days before the fines started kicking in. Dog Guy Eddie was all kinds of apologetic when he told me. He'd honestly thought that the apartment was legal. So as a token of his regret and to facilitate my quick departure, he handed me $7,000.00 in cash -- all six months of rent that I'd paid, plus the security deposit -- and asked if I thought I could be gone in a month. Nice. When I found the new place, he also helped me move and paid for the truck rental.

Yeah, it was in his interest to get me out of there quickly to avoid the fines, so maybe Dog Guy Eddie was just looking out for his own best interests rather than mine. But either way, I liked his style. We remain friends to this day.

Rich
 
What you are describing is what we all now call "The 5%".

Who is The 5%? They are the people who:

- ride straight pipe Harleys and rev them up in your parking lot at bar time.

- bring an infant with a poopy diaper into the hot tub.

- leave a pile of empty Bud Light cans and a dirty diaper on the beach when they leave.

- require five full sized trash bags to clean their rooms -- NONE of it in the trash receptacles.

- leave cigarette ashes and a foul odor in the room, and then whine like little baby girls when we charge them $200.

- throw their left-over bait in the bushes next to the pool.

- sneak pets into no pet rooms.

- leave their pets unattended for hours, torturing the animal and the rest of our guests

- try to pack 4 people in a single bed

- move the room furniture outside.

- leave the door ajar on the courtesy car, guaranteeing a dead battery for the next pilot.

- use a debit card to book a hotel room, and then act outraged that we preauthorize their stay and tie up their money. We then have to spend 10 minutes explaining the US banking industry to them...

- treat me like a sticky door knob when I'm out working on the property, but like gold when they know I'm the owner.

The list goes on, and on, and on.

The 5% are why we must have warning labels on plastic bags, and why diving boards have been litigated into history. They are the ones going 5 mph under the speed limit, looking in the mirror, and laughing at the long line of people they have screwed. They are why we must maintain enormous prisons and giant police forces.

They are the ones who leave their shopping carts in the middle of the parking spot -- or up against your car. They are the ones who launch fireworks uncomfortably close to your picnic table, and let their dog crap on your lawn.

They ruin everything, for everyone, everywhere they go.

Many people claim to fear the 1%, but I've never had any problem with that group. Meanwhile we all suffer with The 5% everywhere, every day.

Where I live, a private island Facebook group of business owners freely shares information about deadbeats, tweakers, rip off artists, and scoundrels. It has saved us both from renting rooms to dirtbags, and also from hiring drama queens and dishonest folks. We may not have shame in this society anymore, but social media works pretty darned well.
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I find that younger clients (often the children of old clients who took over their parents' businesses) are much more likely to be in the slow-pay or no-pay groups.

I presently have one young client who can't pay me because he has judgments against him, and every time he deposits some money in his account, it gets snatched up. If he opens a new account, the parties with the judgments against him find out seemingly instantly, and they snatch that money up, too. I don't know who's doing the snatching, but based on the swiftness with which they sniff out the money, I suspect it's either the IRS or Child Support Enforcement.

The thing that I don't quite understand is that this young fellow seems to think I should show him some special leniency because of his situation. And frankly, I do feel bad for him. If I were his friend or a family member, I probably would pay his bill for him so he could get back to making money. But I'm not his friend nor a family member. I'm a vendor to whom he owes money: And given his present state of affairs, even if I did restore his services so he could start making some money, the chances of my getting any of it would be pretty slim.

And that's the other part of the conundrum: Putting my clients out of business isn't good for my business. But there are so many of them -- way more than five percent -- who won't pay until they're forced to that I really don't have much of a choice. I could give them ten-year extensions, and they'd still have a sob story for me when the payment came due.

Shutting them down, on the other hand, results in immediate payment most of the time because most of the time, the problem isn't that they can't pay. It's that in their framework of financial priorities, the thing that determines who gets paid is how bad the consequences to themselves of not paying that party will be. So I have to make the consequences of not paying me downright catastrophic. That bumps me up higher on the list.

Every month about this time I am tempted to go back to the way I started in this end of the business: building nothing but niche sites based on my own interests, and placing ads on them. It's really a lot easier than trying to get blood out of a bunch of stones every month.

Rich
 
I used to be the "wait until the very last minute to pay a bill" guy... I felt like I reached a milestone in adulthood when I realized I can pay bills when I first get them...
 
My wife hired a receptionist, an amiable, shallow, and clueless young thing. She did have the defense of youth and inexperience. . .so, she quit - got accepted to nursing school or something.

Then my wife was notified of an increase in unemployment taxes/fees from Maryland - and contested it immediately. The young lady had filed for unemployment. The state drone handling was ****ed my wife contested (state/ local gov't is always generous with other people's money. But not in sharing risk).

Anyway, my wife prevailed - which makes sense, since the kid quit, and became a full time student. But she, the kid, called my wife, bitter and angry about losing her "income". She didn't think my wife should care, since it wasn't her money. . .

Not that it mattered who she was defrauding, but my wife explained that it was, in fact, her money, since she, not the state, would be paying. The kid maintained it was still "mean". You thnk that would end it, right? But no - the kid's mom stops by to ask my wife to reconsider! The gist seemed to be her daughter needed the money, and so my wife should help out. . .
 
I had a young lady who voluntarily went from full time to part time and then filed for unemployment. She gave the board an incorrect employer address, and by the time I got the notice it was too late to contest. Corporate HR and Legal said there was nothing I could do...
 
the only time I filed for unemployment was when I was laid off from a bike shop because work was down. the company actually told me to file and helped me with the paperwork... I can't stand when people try to game the system...
 
I do consulting work on the side and the company that uses me as a contractor was previously paying me on 45 day cycles (even though I billed with a due date of 30 days out). So, I changed it to 15 day terms and now I get paid 30 days later. Sometimes, just sometimes, I get paid a few days after the bill is due. And only once on time. And this has been going on for almost 2 years now.

@RJM62 I totally agree with you. You are providing a service, which you do in a timely manner. It should be expected that the people receiving said service would be equally timely with their payment. Otherwise, what's the point in timely service?

I do work for one of my relatives as well and I never know when I'm getting paid. I send a bill out for work due on receipt and I'll maybe get paid a month later. But the work is always a "rush". I think that sometimes my relative forgets that I sometimes spend my weekends getting his crap up and running because it HAD to be done. Somehow the motivation to pay at the end is not equally as strong. Maybe I'll start asking for money up front moving forward. Business with family can be tricky though....
 
I had a young lady who voluntarily went from full time to part time and then filed for unemployment. She gave the board an incorrect employer address, and by the time I got the notice it was too late to contest. Corporate HR and Legal said there was nothing I could do...
That's nothing. I had an assistant manager give me a one YEAR notice to quit in Iowa.

He then applied for unemployment, after he had quit, and lied about what he had done. When we protested that the guy had told us the exact date he was leaving 12 months in advance, it did not matter at all. He got unemployment, and we had to pay it.
 
That's nothing. I had an assistant manager give me a one YEAR notice to quit in Iowa.
He then applied for unemployment, after he had quit, and lied about what he had done. When we protested that the guy had told us the exact date he was leaving 12 months in advance, it did not matter at all. He got unemployment, and we had to pay it.

That sounds like Texas! We know a company where a staffmember admitted to stealing $$, then applied to TWC (state unemployment) and the claim was approved. When contested, the company principals pointed out the admission of theft, suggesting payment of unemployment benefits surely would not be appropriate. TWC's response?

"Is theft listed in your Employee Manual as a fireable offense?"
WTFWTF?
 
In AR, it's called hot checks and they will snatch your butt up on a warrant. Dollar amount doesn't matter, it bounces, all it takes is the endorser to call the PD and they get jail. Want out? The bail goes to the person who suffered the loss!

Hot Checks, son.....AR don't play that.
 
In the small town of my first post-college job, two restaurants I frequented kept returned checks under glass at the register where customers paid their bill. I thought it was a good idea. Issuing a warrant also sounds good, after giving them a chance to make it good with cash.
 
In the small town of my first post-college job, two restaurants I frequented kept returned checks under glass at the register where customers paid their bill. I thought it was a good idea. Issuing a warrant also sounds good, after giving them a chance to make it good with cash.
I remember seeing that at a lot of small town cash-register counters. Now that everyone has a debit card, those days are fading.
 
I remember seeing that at a lot of small town cash-register counters. Now that everyone has a debit card, those days are fading.

Because debit cards don't bounce . . . If they aren't approved, the merchandise stays, the restaurant can press for other payment, the mechanic keeps the car, etc.
 
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