I am a CFI without a valid medical certificate :-(

[ColdWxOps]

Hi Gang....
I had a couple nagging questions that I wanted to post to the group. However, once again, I spent some time searching and found that my questions had been answered in bits in pieces in other threads.
So while I no longer need clarification, I thought I would post my question and the answers I found on the forum here in case anyone can benefit. Please speak up if I have misinterpreted something.

So, here goes:
I am a current and qualified ATP & CFI/CFII. However, several months ago I experienced a myocardial infarction that has left me medically grounded from both my primary job and hobby flying.
While I think I will be successful in my quest to gain a special issuance, the process is slow and I have been advised it will likely be sometime in 2022 due to unique medical concerns.

In the meantime, I have been taking flying lessons with the local CFI in a C172 & C182 just to stay proficient and have fun. But, since I can't go to my primary job, I have lots of unexpected free time. I was wondering what else can I do while waiting for a medical to be approved. Here is what I think I discovered after searching old POA threads.

1. Basic Med is not an option since the MI is a disqualifying condition

2. I can not act as safety pilot while the PIC is under the hood

3. I can use my CFI/CFII to teach with the following limitations*:
- a. I can not teach a student pilot who is not qualified to be the PIC of the aircraft in use.
- b. I can not teach an instrument student who must go under the hood for training.
*( kinda unrealistic in my situation since no flight school would hire a CFI with such limitations)

4. So perhaps, I could give BFR's, some commercial pilot training or fly with a current and qualified instrument rated pilot who wanted some practice in actual IMC and would like to have someone in the airplane who can speak up if things do not look right.

5. I cannot take training towards my seaplane rating or MEI since I can't take a checkride as PIC.

Again, I have no questions now... so I'll just say thanks to those who answered my questions, long before I needed an answer.

It's too bad no flight schools actually offer in-person ground schools anymore. I would love to teach private/instrument/commercial pilot ground school and sign folks off for the written exam. But the local school have told me that stuff is all online training now.

Have a great day all

 

[Rushie]

Why can’t you take dual training for number 5? It would be fun and kill time at least.

So sorry about the MI. I take it you had a class I which is supposed to eliminate such ticking time bombs yet they still sneak up on you like that. That’s what worries me, no symptoms, cholesterol, BP, all in range, and yet I could drop dead at any moment from an MI, especially since I’m female and we supposedly show even less early warning signs.

Hope you get it all straightened out, stay healthy and get your medical back soon.

 

[AggieMike88]

It's too bad no flight schools actually offer in-person ground schools anymore. I would love to teach private/instrument/commercial pilot ground school and sign folks off for the written exam. But the local school have told me that stuff is all online training now.

True. But you can get online and start advertising that you offer classroom sessions and tutoring. Make it known via your personal FB page and the group pages local to you.

 

[Lindberg]

Hi Gang....
I had a couple nagging questions that I wanted to post to the group. However, once again, I spent some time searching and found that my questions had been answered in bits in pieces in other threads.
So while I no longer need clarification, I thought I would post my question and the answers I found on the forum here in case anyone can benefit. Please speak up if I have misinterpreted something.

So, here goes:
I am a current and qualified ATP & CFI/CFII. However, several months ago I experienced a myocardial infarction that has left me medically grounded from both my primary job and hobby flying.
While I think I will be successful in my quest to gain a special issuance, the process is slow and I have been advised it will likely be sometime in 2022 due to unique medical concerns.

In the meantime, I have been taking flying lessons with the local CFI in a C172 & C182 just to stay proficient and have fun. But, since I can't go to my primary job, I have lots of unexpected free time. I was wondering what else can I do while waiting for a medical to be approved. Here is what I think I discovered after searching old POA threads.

1. Basic Med is not an option since the MI is a disqualifying condition

2. I can not act as safety pilot while the PIC is under the hood

3. I can use my CFI/CFII to teach with the following limitations*:
- a. I can not teach a student pilot who is not qualified to be the PIC of the aircraft in use.
- b. I can not teach an instrument student who must go under the hood for training.
*( kinda unrealistic in my situation since no flight school would hire a CFI with such limitations)

4. So perhaps, I could give BFR's, some commercial pilot training or fly with a current and qualified instrument rated pilot who wanted some practice in actual IMC and would like to have someone in the airplane who can speak up if things do not look right.

5. I cannot take training towards my seaplane rating or MEI since I can't take a checkride as PIC.

Again, I have no questions now... so I'll just say thanks to those who answered my questions, long before I needed an answer.

It's too bad no flight schools actually offer in-person ground schools anymore. I would love to teach private/instrument/commercial pilot ground school and sign folks off for the written exam. But the local school have told me that stuff is all online training now.

Have a great day all

You can take a checkride if the examiner agrees to be PIC. Uncommon, but possible. You can also learn to fly gliders and instruct as a CFI-G without a medical.

All of this is dependent on you being recovered from your MI and other conditions.

 

[ColdWxOps]

True. But you can get online and start advertising that you offer classroom sessions and tutoring. Make it known via your personal FB page and the group pages local to you.

Well here is what I did do: I offered my services on a voluntary basis to the local civil air patrol and a local high school with an aviation magnet program. I suspect that the high school will be receptive to free private ground school. I have been flying locally with some CFI's just for fun, and I am going to let them know if they have any students who would like one-on-one or group ground instruction that I am available.

 

[Dave Anderson]

Where are you located?

 

[exncsurfer]

Hi Gang....
I had a couple nagging questions that I wanted to post to the group. However, once again, I spent some time searching and found that my questions had been answered in bits in pieces in other threads.
So while I no longer need clarification, I thought I would post my question and the answers I found on the forum here in case anyone can benefit. Please speak up if I have misinterpreted something.

So, here goes:
I am a current and qualified ATP & CFI/CFII. However, several months ago I experienced a myocardial infarction that has left me medically grounded from both my primary job and hobby flying.
While I think I will be successful in my quest to gain a special issuance, the process is slow and I have been advised it will likely be sometime in 2022 due to unique medical concerns.

In the meantime, I have been taking flying lessons with the local CFI in a C172 & C182 just to stay proficient and have fun. But, since I can't go to my primary job, I have lots of unexpected free time. I was wondering what else can I do while waiting for a medical to be approved. Here is what I think I discovered after searching old POA threads.

1. Basic Med is not an option since the MI is a disqualifying condition

2. I can not act as safety pilot while the PIC is under the hood

3. I can use my CFI/CFII to teach with the following limitations*:
- a. I can not teach a student pilot who is not qualified to be the PIC of the aircraft in use.
- b. I can not teach an instrument student who must go under the hood for training.
*( kinda unrealistic in my situation since no flight school would hire a CFI with such limitations)

4. So perhaps, I could give BFR's, some commercial pilot training or fly with a current and qualified instrument rated pilot who wanted some practice in actual IMC and would like to have someone in the airplane who can speak up if things do not look right.

5. I cannot take training towards my seaplane rating or MEI since I can't take a checkride as PIC.

Again, I have no questions now... so I'll just say thanks to those who answered my questions, long before I needed an answer.

It's too bad no flight schools actually offer in-person ground schools anymore. I would love to teach private/instrument/commercial pilot ground school and sign folks off for the written exam. But the local school have told me that stuff is all online training now.

Have a great day all

Check with the community colleges in your area, you might be able to start a ground School class there and teach it every semester. My CFI did that. I didn't attend it but it seemed like a good deal for the students who prefer class to self study.

 

[ColdWxOps]

Why can’t you take dual training for number 5? It would be fun and kill time at least.

So sorry about the MI. I take it you had a class I which is supposed to eliminate such ticking time bombs yet they still sneak up on you like that. That’s what worries me, no symptoms, cholesterol, BP, all in range, and yet I could drop dead at any moment from an MI, especially since I’m female and we supposedly show even less early warning signs.

Hope you get it all straightened out, stay healthy and get your medical back soon.

Thanks for the kind words Rushie. Yes, it was class I and I think I will be ok, although taking a daily list of pills is new to me. It was a scary moment. I was due to take an international flight as PIC 24 hours after I went to the ER. I thought a lot about the outcome of this event, if it had happened 28 hours later when I was over the north Atlantic. Being worried doesn't make the problem go away. So, to quote Bobby Mcferrin, Don't worry, be Happy.

Yes, I will continue to take flying lessons and try to get exposed to new aspects of flying. I am not going to ask an examiner to be PIC for a rating, I really won't be using without the medical anyway so I'll put the MEI and SES on hold. My daughter and I are going to go to an aerobatic school together for vacation. I can learn new things and there is no checkride.

 

[ColdWxOps]

Check with the community colleges in your area, you might be able to start a ground School class there and teach it every semester.

That's a great idea I had not thought about. I could put my master's degree to good use.
Thanks for the tip.

 

[ColdWxOps]

Where are you located?

MSP area

(although, I do go to Miami & Tampa a lot to visit family when the weather is cold)

 

[EdFred]

Put a qualified PIC in the front right, and instruct from the back seat?

I don't recall anything in the regs saying a CFI needs to occupy a control station.

 

[ColdWxOps]

You can take a checkride if the examiner agrees to be PIC. Uncommon, but possible. You can also learn to fly gliders and instruct as a CFI-G without a medical.

All of this is dependent on you being recovered from your MI and other conditions.

That is interesting. I didn't know you could fly gliders with no medical.
It seems strange that they will let me fly a glider solo, but I can't even qualify for basic med to fly a LSA.
I don't really want to ask the DPE to act as PIC, since I don't really need the rating. I am flying for fun.

 

[Lindberg]

That is interesting. I didn't know you could fly gliders with no medical.
It seems strange that they will let me fly a glider solo, but I can't even qualify for basic med to fly a LSA.
I don't really want to ask the DPE to act as PIC, since I don't really need the rating. I am flying for fun.

No medical needed at all. Solo, checkride, instruct....

 

[danhagan]

It's too bad no flight schools actually offer in-person ground schools anymore.

My PPL was back in 2007, but I know here locally, students still have the opportunity to do an oral with an alternate CFI that has the benefits of make sure student is ready, identify any weak areas, get them used to and calmed down in the oral portion. I thought it was great back when I did it ...

 

[DFH65]

Why do you need basic med to fly an LSA? LSA requires a valid drivers license. Unless your medical has been revoked or you know that your condition as it currently stands would prevent you from completing the flight safely why couldn't you fly LSA?

 

[Rushie]

Being worried doesn't make the problem go away. So, to quote Bobby Mcferrin, Don't worry, be Happy.

Good advice I should be better at following.

My daughter and I are going to go to an aerobatic school together for vacation. I can learn new things and there is no checkride.

That would be fun! My husband and I planned to do that together but then our would be instructor had a fatal accident and we never got around to planning it again. Now I don’t think we ever will. So, live while you can.

My opinion, doing aerobatics can only make you a better pilot.

 

[ColdWxOps]

My opinion, doing aerobatics can only make you a better pilot.

My daughter is a private pilot working on her instrument rating. For a combo Christmas/Birthday gift, I offered her to take her to a seaplane course in Alaska, an aerobatic course in Fl/AZ or a mountain flying course in Co. She thought at this point in her flying she would gain more confidence and proficiency from the aerobatic course. So, we gonna go upside down. (although, I was kinda hoping for the seaplane course)

 

[ColdWxOps]

Why do you need basic med to fly an LSA? LSA requires a valid drivers license. Unless your medical has been revoked or you know that your condition as it currently stands would prevent you from completing the flight safely why couldn't you fly LSA?

Honestly, I don't know the answer to this question. It might take a little more research to find out if I can fly a LSA while I am awaiting a decision on my special issuance. I think there a few places in the mid-west that rent factory built RV-12's. That would be pretty awesome

 

[ColdWxOps]

No medical needed at all. Solo, checkride, instruct....

It seems that one silver lining of my incident is that I learning things I never knew. This is great info. to know.
But if I had not had a medical misstep I would have never even thought to ask some of these questions.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Honestly, I don't know the answer to this question. It might take a little more research to find out if I can fly a LSA while I am awaiting a decision on my special issuance. I think there a few places in the mid-west that rent factory built RV-12's. That would be pretty awesome

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...07/Tilton-AAM-1_2007_Legal_Interpretation.pdf

"The FAA recognized that a person may apply for an airman medical certificate and, for a number of reasons, a final agency action may not be immediately forthcoming." ...
"a final agency action may not be immediately forthcoming in cases such as those where an applicant may possess a medical condition that requires the submission of additional information or further medical evaluation. Under such situations, the agency considers it inappropriate for an individual to exercise the privileges of the certificates specified in § 61.23( c )(1) until a determination of that person's eligibility for the issuance of a medical certificate has been made."

 

[ColdWxOps]

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...07/Tilton-AAM-1_2007_Legal_Interpretation.pdf

"The FAA recognized that a person may apply for an airman medical certificate and, for a number of reasons, a final agency action may not be immediately forthcoming." ...
"a final agency action may not be immediately forthcoming in cases such as those where an applicant may possess a medical condition that requires the submission of additional information or further medical evaluation. Under such situations, the agency considers it inappropriate for an individual to exercise the privileges of the certificates specified in § 61.23( c )(1) until a determination of that person's eligibility for the issuance of a medical certificate has been made."

Thank you for posting this. I was just sitting here on computer searching for this information.
This is consistent with what I believe to be true, although I couldn't find this express language.

Thanks

 

[X3 Skier]

Thank you for posting this. I was just sitting here on computer searching for this information.
This is consistent with what I believe to be true, although I couldn't find this express language.

Thanks

This a non-problem regarding LSA IMNSHO, if you’ve not asked for a SI or been denied and all you need is a driver license.

So if you want to get a LSA ASES endorsement, go for it. I know of two places. Jack Brown’s Seaplane Base in Winter Haven FL and Flying Fish also in Winter Haven and St Charles MO. I’ve flown with both and highly recommend them. You can do it in a weekend.

Cheers

 

[ColdWxOps]

This a non-problem regarding LSA IMNSHO, if you’ve not asked for a SI or been denied and all you need is a driver license.

So if you want to get a LSA ASES endorsement, go for it. I know of two places. Jack Brown’s Seaplane Base in Winter Haven FL and Flying Fish also in Winter Haven and St Charles MO. I’ve flown with both and highly recommend them. You can do it in a weekend.

Cheers

I have been denied for my most recent application due to MI which is a disqualifying condition.
I subsequently applied for a special issuance. Aeromedical responded by asking for additional test, which I have completed. I am awaiting a final ruling, which I am told will likely come in the 1sr quarter of 2022.

 

[X3 Skier]

I have been denied for my most recent application due to MI which is a disqualifying condition.
I subsequently applied for a special issuance. Aeromedical responded by asking for additional test, which I have completed. I am awaiting a final ruling, which I am told will likely come in the 1sr quarter of 2022.

“inappropriate” doesn’t mean prohibited When I got my ASES LSA Endorsement there was no solo flight and always with a CFI for both instruction and check ride. Since I never get into the PIC Discussion since it’s irrelevant to my flying, I have no clue who was when.

But if you need to be cautious about the future of your career……….

I’m just SGOTI

CHEERS

 

[Lindberg]

“inappropriate” doesn’t mean prohibited When I got my ASES LSA Endorsement there was no solo flight and always with a CFI for both instruction and check ride. Since I never get into the PIC Discussion since it’s irrelevant to my flying, I have no clue who was when.

But if you need to be cautious about the future of your career……….

I’m just SGOTI

CHEERS

The full context of the letter Capt. Thorpe is clear. It being "inappropriate" is the explanation for why it's "illegal."

 

[ColdWxOps]

I try not to do inappropriate things in life, even it doesn’t threaten to put you in jail.

Seriously though, we are talking about a hobby. My world doesn’t stop if I just can’t fly until year (or ever).
If it’s a gray area, I’d rather just keep flying with my instructor until I have a medical in my hand.
I won’t lose sleep if I find out next year, I could flown for six more months in my life.

That memo is all I need to take this option off the table.

 

[Dave Anderson]

MSP area

(although, I do go to Miami & Tampa a lot to visit family when the weather is cold)

Contact Rand Volmer w Salsa Aviation out of KZPH if glider is an interest. They are always looking to expand the glider instructors and no medical.

 

[X3 Skier]

The full context of the letter Capt. Thorpe is clear. It being "inappropriate" is the explanation for why it's "illegal."

I love obfuscation by the FAA legal community. If it’s illegal, why did it say inappropriate? Not that I really care but to me it’s inappropriate to wear a Speedo to a formal event but not illegal. Or at least say it’s in violation of 61.whatever.

Cheers

 

[DFH65]

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...07/Tilton-AAM-1_2007_Legal_Interpretation.pdf

"The FAA recognized that a person may apply for an airman medical certificate and, for a number of reasons, a final agency action may not be immediately forthcoming." ...
"a final agency action may not be immediately forthcoming in cases such as those where an applicant may possess a medical condition that requires the submission of additional information or further medical evaluation. Under such situations, the agency considers it inappropriate for an individual to exercise the privileges of the certificates specified in § 61.23( c )(1) until a determination of that person's eligibility for the issuance of a medical certificate has been made."

Another area that makes no sense. If you don't involve the FAA technically no reason you can't fly if you do involve the FAA you can't for sure. So the answer is don't involve the FAA (apply for a medical or SI) until you are absolutely 100% sure you can get it. Otherwise just go fly an LSA with your drivers license because you are not waiting on submission of information or further medical evaluation.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I love obfuscation by the FAA legal community. If it’s illegal, why did it say inappropriate? Not that I really care but to me it’s inappropriate to wear a Speedo to a formal event but not illegal. Or at least say it’s in violation of 61.whatever.

Cheers

61.303 (b) (2) Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate);

The O.P. has apparently applied for a certificate and has not yet been found eligible.

Better?

 

[X3 Skier]

61.303 (b) (2) Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate);

The O.P. has apparently applied for a certificate and has not yet been found eligible.

Better?

I got all that and I wasn’t clear if in fact the OP had entered the wonderland of SI’s.

After that, I was nitpicking the use of the mealy mouth “inappropriate” vs violation, illegal or some other more firm wording in the FAA missive you referenced.

I’m sure some person with a JD (The Hon Mr. Levy Esq.?) will inform me that “inappropriate” means the same thing as a “violation” of a regulation in FAA Land.

Cheers

 

[ColdWxOps]

. So the answer is don't involve the FAA (apply for a medical or SI) until you are absolutely 100% sure you can get it.

Unfortunately, I had to apply for the SI in order to return to my day job.

Somehow I have gotten myself into a situation where I gotta burn kerosene in order to afford 100LL.