Hypothetical Trainer: IFR Certified Tomahawk

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AndyTowPilot

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Andy
All,

I know not everyone is a fan of the Tomahawk, but I have several hundred hours in it and am a long time CFI. It comes at a good price point, and if the AD's are in check ... I think it could be a fun trainer for BOTH Primary and IFR.

What I am thinking: Dual G5's and a Garmin 430. It won't be a crazy fast cross country machine, but it will do the job!

Please be devil's advocates and tell me what I am missing. Like most folks, we never focus on the negatives.

Thanks,
Andy
 
Sounds awesome to me! I love the Tomahawk

Dual G5 with 430?! What more could you want?!

In all seriousness, at least have it be WAAS or step up for 650/750

Several of our club planes, even the beaters renting for cheap have a 650..
 
If we had a tomahawk in our club I'd fly the pants off it
 
Can't play devil's advocate. I've always been a PA-38 fan. I taught in them when they were new. I think it is perfect for the role. Note the absence of an autopilot may add some instrument training time.
 
AndyTowPilot said:
Please be devil's advocate...
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OK, I'll toss out a GPS175 and dual AV30's instead. Maybe even a GNX375 if you don't already have ADS-B.

Of course, it's hard to say without knowing what's already in the panel.
 
asicer said:
OK, I'll toss out a GPS175 and dual AV30's instead. Maybe even a GNX375 if you don't already have ADS-B.

Of course, it's hard to say without knowing what's already in the panel.
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Great suggestion, thank you!
 
Switch out the 430 for a 650 - a must do IMHO. Other than that sounds like a great set up
 
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I always thought wanted some hours in one, but haven’t seen them for rent anywhere.
 
AndyTowPilot said:
All,

I know not everyone is a fan of the Tomahawk, but I have several hundred hours in it and am a long time CFI. It comes at a good price point, and if the AD's are in check ... I think it could be a fun trainer for BOTH Primary and IFR.

What I am thinking: Dual G5's and a Garmin 430. It won't be a crazy fast cross country machine, but it will do the job!

Please be devil's advocates and tell me what I am missing. Like most folks, we never focus on the negatives.

Thanks,
Andy
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The Tomahawk infidels know of not what they speak. One flight and I am sure they will experience the elation of TDS (Tomahawk Dementia Syndrome) that can soon metastasis into an addiction whose only cure is flying a Tomahawk.

Perfect primary trainer, that is what the plane was designed to do.

You may want to head on over the Tomahawk group on Facebook.. There are a few blokes there that did what your thinking and they can give you some first hand feedback on the project.. Like you I have several hours and a few spins in the PA38.

It would be a good IFR trainer to, but I would make sure the rigging is true and the trim springs are working correctly - new spring kit is $250. Nothing more frustrating then thinking you have her trimmed and she isn't. Additionally, make sure it has the factory installed pitot heat.. getting the parts to retrofit is a pain the the _______. Be sure to check out how they addressed AD 82-27-08. With the modification kit, you should be good, w/out = $$$$$, not much but still.

Tantalum said:
If we had a tomahawk in our club I'd fly the pants off it
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I owned one and regret selling it. Heard she made her way to Argentina and is in a flight club down there..
 
I owned a trauma hawk many years ago. Great little plane, and would make a great (albeit really too easy) IFR trainer. And I really do mean it will be "too easy", as trauma hawks are ridiculously easy to fly (I literally sold mine from boredom), and transitioning to ANY other plane is a step up in difficulty (if only slightly for some other easy trainers). If it is rigged right, a trauma hawk will fly hands off, on course, for minutes or longer. Even if turbulent, it will almost never get crazy while hands off. Flying one reminds me of those little RC planes with the massive amount of dihedral that keeps the plane upright.
After selling mine, a guy who was a "life long student pilot" bought it and kept it on a private strip nearby for many years. I now notice it was most recently sold to a guy in South Carolina, although flight aware is currently showing that it is up flying as I write this, in Miami.
 
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I have flown the Tomahawk IFR. It is a fine little bird. Used to own one. Wish I still had it, just for flying the patterns. You can paint a Tomahawk on the runway like nothing else.
 
Been years since I had a little bit of PA-38 time. Sounds great to me, but, I don't recall what is the average useful load? If like a 152, that can get kind of slim for fuel capacity if both people on board are today's average 200+ pounders.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Instead trade out the 430 for an Avidyne IFD440 :)
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Some people like the 440's - i HATE them. I would take a 430 over the 440 any day. I would even pay more for the 430 than a 440. Super clunky for IFR. Annoying frequency suggestions and you have to dismiss the menu, no VTF button, way to many steps to delete the flight plan and start with a fresh one, etc. You may like them, but just my experience teaching in 430, 650, 750, 440, proline, apex, primus, g1000, g3000, fusion, etc - the 440 is the worst.

My opinion, its worth what you paid for it.
 
Jim Carpenter said:
Been years since I had a little bit of PA-38 time. Sounds great to me, but, I don't recall what is the average useful load? If like a 152, that can get kind of slim for fuel capacity if both people on board are today's average 200+ pounders.
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I have one it is on the light side, not a lot of extra electronics. It is 350 pounds below the weight limit with full tanks. So you only need to burn off 8 gallons of fuel to fit two 200 pounders.
 
My first flight was in a Tomahawk. I also did most of my CFI time in the PA38. I’m 6’4” so the Tomahawk was a better fit than the 152. I also preferred it as a trainer to the 152 because I felt it flew more like a larger airplane. In addition the pilot had to manage the fuel system a little. I haven’t seen one in years. The last one I saw was in Dawson, Ga. Spinning it was a blast, just don’t look at the tail flopping around back there!!
 
I think it would make a great trainer. You may want to look at a combo Garmin transponder like the GTX345 to go with it. That would give you ADS-B In/Out and I think it would display on the G5 (check this though). The main drawback, as others have said, it the weight limitation with the average American pushing 200 lbs. Other than that, I think you would have a winner.
 
I would fight hard to keep the useful load above 500 if at all possible. Otherwise your idea is sound.
 
Since they are becoming more rare, a "good price point" is also becoming rare. I can't imagine buying one and dumping $20k into the panel for such limited IFR capability. You could do better with a Tri-Pacer.
 
I'd keep the 430W and add a Flight Stream 210. Have your students get an iPad/tablet and an EFB. They can use this combination as they progress in the capability of the aircraft they fly. They can start now with Foreflight and keep that app as their EFB up to turbines.
 
Were I going to outfit a Piper with IFR instruments I'd outfit a Cherokee. Marginally more money, easily flown, easily landed and far more versatile.
 
A non waas 430 is basically dead weight. If you're intending to do serious IFR training in it having to individually load a flight plan each time and click through all the knobs will get tiring

650, gns355, or something equivalent..

The flight stream option is not a bad idea, some of our 430 planes here have that
 
steingar said:
Were I going to outfit a Piper with IFR instruments I'd outfit a Cherokee. Marginally more money, easily flown, easily landed and far more versatile.
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MauleSkinner said:
…and you’d probably recoup more of your investment at resale.
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And can be had for about the same price as a Tommy... I am seeing some crazy high prices on them right now. When a good one comes on the market it goes quick..

My only issue with the Cherokee is the single door.
 
WDD said:
Switch out the 430 for a 650 - a must do IMHO. Other that that sounds like a great set up
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I did my CFII in a Tomahawk with a VOR/Glideslope and a DME.

Unless you have low installation costs a 650 probably makes more sense than a 430, or a Avidyne IFD440.

Brian
CFIIGI/ASEL
 
Totally updated Tomahawk that Mojogrip reported on. Goes over the panel at 5:37. Has two G5s and a 650. Looks like it might haven an engine monitor too.


Interview with the owner:

 
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