Hypothetical question on transatlantic aircraft selection

Morgan3820

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This is purely hypothetical, but let's say that someone came into some money, (~$9.5 mil after taxes). What are some of the issues if this someone liked to travel. Specifically, 2-4 times per year to the UK. Not looking to ferry a plane but more as a regular thing. I know that commercial would be the sensible choice but let's just fantasize a bit, again all hypothetical. Is it realistic for a 500 hr. pilot with IR and complex to single pilot a jet to the UK? 1-5 passengers, thinking one stop in Iceland. Could $9.5 mil buy, fuel and maintain something with that capability? I am guessing that insurance may be an issue. Plus have $3 mil or so left over for retirement. I was thinking that a turboprop would work and be cheaper but may be too slow to make the flight enjoyable. Would an Citation work? The Cirrus jet has one engine which I am not sure that would work. Plus too small I think. I am a bigger fellow and I am guessing that the smaller jets also have smaller cockpits. Do the new small jets have a type rating?What about the new noise reduction requirements?
 
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Friend of mine flies a Citation Mustang for one of his corporate clients. A couple of years ago he piloted that little jet via Iceland to Europe and all the down to Morocco and back. Total 4 people on board (owner & his wife, my pilot friend and his wife). The plane doesn't have much range so quite a few fuel stops along the way, apparently.

If you were going to do it regularly I'd be looking for a G550 or G650. ;)
 
You can certainly get a plane capable of that flight within that budget, but how long are you going to have to maintain it and how many trips across the pond? Presumably the 9.5m is not going to grow significantly, so it will continue to be spent and eventually run out.
 
This is purely hypothetical, but let's say that someone came into some money, (~$9.5 mil after taxes). What are some of the issues if this someone liked to travel. Specifically, 2-4 times per year to the UK. Not looking to ferry a plane but more as a regular thing. I know that commercial would be the sensible choice but let's just fantasize a bit, again all hypothetical. Is it realistic for a 500 hr. pilot with IR and complex to single pilot a jet to the UK? 1-5 passengers, thinking one stop in Iceland. Could $9.5 mil buy, fuel and maintain something with that capability? I am guessing that insurance may be an issue. Plus have $3 mil or so left over for retirement. I was thinking that a turboprop would work and be cheaper but may be too slow to make the flight enjoyable. Would an Citation work? The Cirrus jet has one engine which I am not sure that would work. Plus too small I think. I am a bigger fellow and I am guessing that the smaller jets also have smaller cockpits. Do the new small jets have a type rating?What about the new noise reduction requirements?

Noise reduction, especially in Europe, I don't know about... But I would think it's a pretty safe assumption that anything you were to buy that's relatively new would meet the European noise requirements because, well, they like to sell airplanes. Now, something like an old Lear that needs a "hush kit" is different... But I wouldn't worry about that too much, because you probably want something relatively new.

500 hours with IR and complex is probably the bare minimum, and you're going to need a lot of training and probably a mentor pilot for a while. You would probably want that on the first few crossings anyway. But, if you have enough money, it's probably do-able.

On the small end, a Cessna Citation M2, Embraer Phenom 100, or HondaJet runs about $4.5 mil, while $9.5 mil will get you into the top end of the single-pilot jets (CJ4, PC24, Phenom 300) but then you wouldn't have any money left over to actually fly the darn thing... And they take plenty of money. According the Internet, even an M2 will run about $1300/hr.

Looking at the trip: KEWN direct to EGLC (London City airport) is 3,352 nm, far beyond the range of the M2/Phenom 100 plus you won't be getting direct anyway. You'll need at least three legs with this class of aircraft, and you'll only be able to take a couple of people with you with full fuel (slightly under 600lb payload with full fuel).

But, what you also need to consider with the jet is not just its total range, which is based on cruising up high where jets are the most efficient, but also what happens in one of two situations: First, and engine failure, which will leave you without enough power to maintain altitude, and second, a pressurization failure, which will also necessitate a lower altitude. Those low altitudes will cause you to burn more fuel, which will shrink your range.

Now, it's "only" 9.5 mil - This isn't Powerball money. The used market offers some nice options.

For example, this Phenom 100E for $2.7 mil. It looks like, to do this trip safely with the above caveats in mind, you'll need to make this a four-leg trip, adding Narsarsauq, Greenland to ensure that you'll be able to make it to land in the event of an engine out or pressurization emergency: KEWN-CYYR-BGBW-BIKF-EGLC. On the way back, EGLC-EGPL-BIKF-BGBW-CYYR-KEWN (plus one stop to clear customs). And this is really a two-day trip in each direction, because flight time will be around 12 hours, then you add stops and that's really too long of a day to do safely as a single pilot. But, you might want to have some fun exploring the stopover cities. :) This will also give you the most leftover money for your retirement and operating costs.

Another option would be to go with a used longer-range single-pilot jet, like this $5.8 mil Citation CJ4 or this $6.6 mil Citation CJ3+. You can probably kiss the retirement goodbye, but you'll be able to take your 5 pax, with a full fuel payload double that of the smaller jets above (1200ish pounds) and still have some money left over for operating costs. You'll only need three legs (KEWN-CYYR-BIKF-EGLC) and flight time will be about 10 hours. So, maybe possible in a day, though I still wouldn't recommend it. If you wake up at 6 AM EST and depart at 8 AM EST, keep each stop to an hour, you'll arrive in London at 1 AM GMT anyway.

Finally, you could forego the single-pilot option, hire that mentor pilot you're going to want for some stuff anyway, and get this $4.7 mil Citation X. You could theoretically make the trip direct in under 7 hours with today's weather, though that would give you some "feet wet" time in the case of an emergency. However, a single stopover at Gander gives you the ability to make the trip with a single stop in a single day and take all your friends.

Finally, you could theoretically lease back any of the above and help earn back your retirement. Y'know, as long as we're fantasizing. ;)
 
Noise reduction, especially in Europe, I don't know about... But I would think it's a pretty safe assumption that anything you were to buy that's relatively new would meet the European noise requirements because, well, they like to sell airplanes. Now, something like an old Lear that needs a "hush kit" is different... But I wouldn't worry about that too much, because you probably want something relatively new.

500 hours with IR and complex is probably the bare minimum, and you're going to need a lot of training and probably a mentor pilot for a while. You would probably want that on the first few crossings anyway. But, if you have enough money, it's probably do-able.

On the small end, a Cessna Citation M2, Embraer Phenom 100, or HondaJet runs about $4.5 mil, while $9.5 mil will get you into the top end of the single-pilot jets (CJ4, PC24, Phenom 300) but then you wouldn't have any money left over to actually fly the darn thing... And they take plenty of money. According the Internet, even an M2 will run about $1300/hr.

Looking at the trip: KEWN direct to EGLC (London City airport) is 3,352 nm, far beyond the range of the M2/Phenom 100 plus you won't be getting direct anyway. You'll need at least three legs with this class of aircraft, and you'll only be able to take a couple of people with you with full fuel (slightly under 600lb payload with full fuel).

But, what you also need to consider with the jet is not just its total range, which is based on cruising up high where jets are the most efficient, but also what happens in one of two situations: First, and engine failure, which will leave you without enough power to maintain altitude, and second, a pressurization failure, which will also necessitate a lower altitude. Those low altitudes will cause you to burn more fuel, which will shrink your range.

Now, it's "only" 9.5 mil - This isn't Powerball money. The used market offers some nice options.

For example, this Phenom 100E for $2.7 mil. It looks like, to do this trip safely with the above caveats in mind, you'll need to make this a four-leg trip, adding Narsarsauq, Greenland to ensure that you'll be able to make it to land in the event of an engine out or pressurization emergency: KEWN-CYYR-BGBW-BIKF-EGLC. On the way back, EGLC-EGPL-BIKF-BGBW-CYYR-KEWN (plus one stop to clear customs). And this is really a two-day trip in each direction, because flight time will be around 12 hours, then you add stops and that's really too long of a day to do safely as a single pilot. But, you might want to have some fun exploring the stopover cities. :) This will also give you the most leftover money for your retirement and operating costs.

Another option would be to go with a used longer-range single-pilot jet, like this $5.8 mil Citation CJ4 or this $6.6 mil Citation CJ3+. You can probably kiss the retirement goodbye, but you'll be able to take your 5 pax, with a full fuel payload double that of the smaller jets above (1200ish pounds) and still have some money left over for operating costs. You'll only need three legs (KEWN-CYYR-BIKF-EGLC) and flight time will be about 10 hours. So, maybe possible in a day, though I still wouldn't recommend it. If you wake up at 6 AM EST and depart at 8 AM EST, keep each stop to an hour, you'll arrive in London at 1 AM GMT anyway.

Finally, you could forego the single-pilot option, hire that mentor pilot you're going to want for some stuff anyway, and get this $4.7 mil Citation X. You could theoretically make the trip direct in under 7 hours with today's weather, though that would give you some "feet wet" time in the case of an emergency. However, a single stopover at Gander gives you the ability to make the trip with a single stop in a single day and take all your friends.

Finally, you could theoretically lease back any of the above and help earn back your retirement. Y'know, as long as we're fantasizing. ;)

Wow, that is a lot to think about. But all good info. Money doesn’t go as far as it one would think. Thanks.
 
It’s the theoretical journey, not the hypothetical destination. Spend half the money on scratch-off tickets, hope for the best, and don’t forget to always choose cole slaw as your side. 9.5 mil is a lot of slaw.
 
It’s the theoretical journey, not the hypothetical destination. Spend half the money on scratch-off tickets, hope for the best, and don’t forget to always choose cole slaw as your side. 9.5 mil is a lot of slaw.

Actually, it won't buy quite so much, since you'll be spending half on scratch off tickets. So, figure 4.75 mil worth of slaw.
 
An older jet would be an awesome way to piddle away a fortune. I could go on quite a few charters and not hit the principal, whilst doing my domestic flying in something less expensive.
 
I like flying myself but transatlantic in a small aircraft/small jet? You could pay for plenty of business or first class seats and drink the entire way over :)
 
Minimum 7hrs for each crossing or 14hrs per trip. Lets say $1600/hr that's $22,400 for you and your passengers per trip.

I am guessing you can get business class tickets for $4500/set (round trip) so thats at least 4 nice seats on a big plane with 2 engines, bathroom, drinks, etc. And your 9.5M is not tied up in a plane. After several of these trips you'll be some fancy medallion status and upgrades will be cheaper.
 
I know this is a hypothetical exercise. But in reality, if I inherited 9.5 million, and was needing to go to the UK a handful of times each year, I would cross the big pond on commercial airliners, and save my money for a really nice plane to fly around the US during my retirement! I could afford a really nice piston or turboprop. I could swing a really nice TBM and have a lot of money left over.
 
Business class plus nice airplane for domestic flying is the way to go.
 
My general rule is no more than 10% of net worth on toys (cumulative) so unless you have another $90m socked away when you inherit the $9.5m I wouldn’t spend more than about $900k on the airplane. That will get you a decent Eclipse which you could use for that kind of trip but it is a bit more like a college road trip with multiple stops along the way for Jet A and sun chips than a nice gulfstream luxurious hop across the pond. Doable but at $9.5m net worth you really aren’t in the same zip code as the average person who flies private globally.

Edit: also, Eclipses are cheap for a reason. You could find yourself AOG for months if one of the hard to get parts (pitot probes, windshields) fails. I have heard this is improving somewhat with the latest bankruptcy and new capital.
 
I know this is a hypothetical exercise. But in reality, if I inherited 9.5 million, and was needing to go to the UK a handful of times each year, I would cross the big pond on commercial airliners, and save my money for a really nice plane to fly around the US during my retirement! I could afford a really nice piston or turboprop. I could swing a really nice TBM and have a lot of money left over.
Hmmm, A TBM is almost as fast as a jet, right? Hmmmm Less than half the fuel burn. A compromise may work.
 
Minimum 7hrs for each crossing or 14hrs per trip. Lets say $1600/hr that's $22,400 for you and your passengers per trip.

I am guessing you can get business class tickets for $4500/set (round trip) so thats at least 4 nice seats on a big plane with 2 engines, bathroom, drinks, etc. And your 9.5M is not tied up in a plane. After several of these trips you'll be some fancy medallion status and upgrades will be cheaper.[/QUOTE

What is a TBM's all in hourly rate? $600/hr?
 
Gander to Iceland is about 1600 miles. Kindof pushing it in the TBM. 5+ hrs.
 
There are a couple of things that may throw a monkey wrench in your hypothetical plan. First issue will be finding a plane that will fulfill your mission. You didn't say which airport you'd be departing from, but since you list New Bern as your home, I'm going to assume you'll be leaving from somewhere in NC. I plugged RDU and Reykjavik into an air miles calculator, and got back 2621 nm. Then I did a DuckDuckGo search on single pilot jets, and it looks like the Citation Encore has the longest range, at 1736 nm. Ok, that's not going to work, so let's look at Cessna's lineup for something that would cover the distance. It looks like you'd need a Citation Longitude. Looks like the operating cost of a Longitude is around $5000 per hour, if you use it 200 hours per year. That $9.5 million ain't gonna last long at that rate. I suspect that the capital cost of that jet would more than drain your piggy bank in its entirely.

So, back to your plan. It's going to be about 20 hours round trip, you'd spend $100,000 to get your five peeps to and from the UK. I see nonstops from Atlanta on Delta for $3600 per person or from JFK for $3000 in that nice cushy Delta One service with a lie flat bed. I know which one I'd choose.
 
I would ratchet down a bit. What’s your hurry? You have plenty of $$ so enjoy the journey.

Invested wisely, 9.5 mil could easily net you about $450,000 per year in dividends which are often taxed at lower rates than normal income. Some pipeline or other partnership investments pay 6% to 11% and low or no taxes until you sell, which could be never. You wouldn’t need to touch the 9.5 mil.

I think I could live very well and still operate a nice twin turbo prop for 1/2 million a year, especially if owned in a partnership.
 
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Distance from Gander International Airport to Keflavík International Airport is 1371 nautical miles, easy peasy from that point on.
 
An older jet would be an awesome way to piddle away a fortune.

Yep. That's why I left the stuff like the Citation S-II off the list. You can buy one for under a mil, but the money flow is going to be high.

I know this is a hypothetical exercise. But in reality, if I inherited 9.5 million, and was needing to go to the UK a handful of times each year, I would cross the big pond on commercial airliners, and save my money for a really nice plane to fly around the US during my retirement! I could afford a really nice piston or turboprop. I could swing a really nice TBM and have a lot of money left over.

Very true.

Hmmm, A TBM is almost as fast as a jet, right? Hmmmm Less than half the fuel burn. A compromise may work.

I wouldn't do a TBM if you still want to fly overseas. Turbine engines are reliable, but not foolproof.

You can get a REALLY nice King Air for less than $2.5 mil. B200 with all of the Raisbeck mods and the G1000 upgrade.

Gander to Iceland is about 1600 miles. Kindof pushing it in the TBM. 5+ hrs.

No need to go all the way from Gander to Iceland, when Greenland is in between. And yes, that gives you some, uh, opportunities for adventure. ;)

Then I did a DuckDuckGo search on single pilot jets, and it looks like the Citation Encore has the longest range, at 1736 nm.

Whatever DuckDuckGo is, it's wrong. The CJ4 is single pilot and has a range of over 2100nm. Still not enough for NC direct to Iceland, but there are plenty of good places to stop in between, since the direct route pretty much goes up the coast and into Canada before you see water. Plus, you need to plan for the possible engine or pressurization emergencies as I described in post 4.
 
If we are talking old jets, an IAJet 1124 Westwind has plenty of range, payload and speed. And they are dirt CHEAP! 2200nm miles range @ 410 knots for only 1/2 million. What plane has more capability for less?

A guy around here operates a couple in a partnership deal, he bought the last one for well under $500,000 and it was very well equipped and in good cosmetic condition.
 
Yep. That's why I left the stuff like the Citation S-II off the list. You can buy one for under a mil, but the money flow is going to be high.



Very true.



I wouldn't do a TBM if you still want to fly overseas. Turbine engines are reliable, but not foolproof.

You can get a REALLY nice King Air for less than $2.5 mil. B200 with all of the Raisbeck mods and the G1000 upgrade.



No need to go all the way from Gander to Iceland, when Greenland is in between. And yes, that gives you some, uh, opportunities for adventure. ;)



Whatever DuckDuckGo is, it's wrong. The CJ4 is single pilot and has a range of over 2100nm. Still not enough for NC direct to Iceland, but there are plenty of good places to stop in between, since the direct route pretty much goes up the coast and into Canada before you see water. Plus, you need to plan for the possible engine or pressurization emergencies as I described in post 4.

I don’t expect NC to Iceland. Bangor or Gandor to Iceland works just fine. Bangor would be nice but Gandor is less of a stretch.
 
If we are talking old jets, an IAJet 1124 Westwind has plenty of range, payload and speed. And they are dirt CHEAP! 2200nm miles range @ 410 knots for only 1/2 million. What plane has more capability for less?

A guy around here operates a couple in a partnership deal, he bought the last one for well under $500,000 and it was very well equipped and in good cosmetic condition.
Don't those require a second pilot?
 
Yes they do, but they are so darn cheap and so darn capable that perhaps a second pilot becomes less of an issue. In any event, a second pilot is a good idea for international trips anyway. The workload is greatly increased with unfamiliar places, language dialects, unfamiliar procedures and long legs. Especially useful considering the experience level of the OP.

Which of us would like to cross the Atlantic with a single 500 hour pilot up front while we sat in the back?
 
Yes they do, but they are so darn cheap and so darn capable that perhaps a second pilot becomes less of an issue. In any event, a second pilot is a good idea for international trips anyway. The workload is greatly increased with unfamiliar places, language dialects, unfamiliar procedures and long legs. Especially useful considering the experience level of the OP.

Which of us would like to cross the Atlantic with a single 500 hour pilot up front while we sat in the back?

My wife would...She is very trusting.
 
How about a Pilatus PC=12?

The Pilatus PC-12 is a single-engine turboprop passenger and cargo aircraft manufactured by Pilatus Aircraft of Stans, Switzerland since 1991. The main market for the aircraft is corporate transport and regional airliner operators. Wikipedia
Range: 1,742 mi
Cruise speed: 311 mph
Nice used ones are $2.5 mil

Might work, but it is still a single engine. Are single turboprops reliable enough?
 
The Pilatus PC-12 is a single-engine turboprop passenger and cargo aircraft manufactured by Pilatus Aircraft of Stans, Switzerland since 1991. The main market for the aircraft is corporate transport and regional airliner operators. Wikipedia
Range: 1,742 mi
Cruise speed: 311 mph
Nice used ones are $2.5 mil

Might work, but it is still a single engine. Are single turboprops reliable enough?
Right up until they quit.
 
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