How-videos for rope tie down?

NoHeat

NoHeat

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I'm not good at knots. What online videos are good instruction to show how to tie down an aircraft with rope?
 
Most pilots I know use a round turn and two sets of two half-hitches, which I don't like because it can go slack on windy days. I prefer a bowline.

Rich
 
F.E. Potts describes a hurricane hitch in his book. That's pretty much what I use. i call it a jam knot. It's held my planes tight in lots of windstorms. I've never had one loosen even when the Cessna gear walked and left one line with some slack. My top wind experience is 117mph and my Mammut static climbing ropes held up to the test. That's good enough for me to keep doing the same thing.

I've never seen any video of that particular knot. Too bad since it's simpler and more secure than the video knots I've seen on Youtube. maybe I'll make a quick video and post it. But not today.
 
RJM62 said:
Most pilots I know use a round turn and two sets of two half-hitches, which I don't like because it can go slack on windy days. I prefer a bowline.

Rich
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Problem with a bowline is you can't put it under tension. I use a double or triple bowline to tie to the anchor to spread the load and chafe across a greater surface area, then put a 'magic knot' (bight through a bight) about 1/3rd of the way down from the tie point, then use that for the lower purchase of a 2 purchase wrap, then tie a rolling hitch with a locking hitch on top of it. This lets you tighten any slack out of the line if you get some stretch when it's wet and bouncing in a storm without having to undo anything but the lock.

I tied down my buddies plane like this at OSH one year and walked away while he sat there and watched the air show. He said a whole bunch of people stopped, studied the tie down and asked him how he did it.:lol:
 
RJM62 said:
Most pilots I know use a round turn and two sets of two half-hitches, which I don't like because it can go slack on windy days. I prefer a bowline.

Rich
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:yes:

Learn a bowline and a sheet bend.
 
RJM62 said:
Most pilots I know use a round turn and two sets of two half-hitches, which I don't like because it can go slack on windy days. I prefer a bowline.

Rich
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I tie two double half hitch knots, and they seem to hold up pretty tight, even in the wind. I think some of it has to do with the type of rope you use.
 
That popular loop-de-doo thing has never looked very secure to me, so I have never learned to tie it.

I use a slipped bowline on each end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQeRPEb9DJo It's secure and, importantly, very easy to untie.

As Henning points out, using bowlines means you can't get the rope completely taut. Other than maybe for neatness, I don't see that this is important.

More than the OP wanted: Here is the mother lode on video knots: http://www.animatedknots.com/ He also has an Android app and, I suppose, an iThing app as well. If you get interested in knots, you should know that the "bible" of knots is The Ashley Book of Knots, published 70 years ago. You will often see it cryptically referenced by knot tiers. For example, the plain bowline is "ABOK #1010."

I carry a couple of different colored pieces of paracord and a knot book or app as a nice diversion on long international flights.
 
airdale said:
If you get interested in knots, you should know that the "bible" of knots is The Ashley Book of Knots, published 70 years ago.
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Yes, but do keep in mind that Ashley wrote his book before slippery synthetic lines became common.
 
As Henning points out, using bowlines means you can't get the rope completely taut. Other than maybe for neatness, I don't see that this is important.
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Loose ropes allow the plane to rock and bounce in the wind. When the bouncing reaches the end of the slack in the ropes the attach point gets hammered. All the while the gear is getting worked laterally. Why bother tying it down if you're not going to secure it well?
 
Stewartb said:
Loose ropes allow the plane to rock and bounce in the wind. When the bouncing reaches the end of the slack in the ropes the attach point gets hammered. All the while the gear is getting worked laterally. Why bother tying it down if you're not going to secure it well?
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You can secure it well with many types of knots, including bowlines. With many, though, it is difficult to get violin string tension, which IMO is unnecessary.

If you work out the physics, even for polypropylene or polyester ropes,I think you'll find that "gets hammered" is a tad bombastic.
 
airdale said:
If you work out the physics, even for polypropylene or polyester ropes,I think you'll find that "gets hammered" is a tad bombastic.
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...until the lifeflight helicopter hover taxis by and you see airplanes loosely tied jump around while your mooney, tied properly and under tension, just sits there.

"loosely tied" == "not tied until the slack is taken up".

Not sure of the issue. It's so easy to tie with tension on the rope. It doesn't take a complicated knot or a long time.

Now, finding decent tiedown spots...
 
Some of us have reasons for our opinions.
 

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My first CFI was so bothered by the loss of so many aircraft at Chandler last week, that he offered up this video to try to help folks get it right...

I've been trying down airplanes via his two methods for 24 years and haven't lost one yet.

Sorry it's a FB link. I don't think they uploaded it anywhere else. He uploaded it to send it to one of the student pilot groups there.

https://www.facebook.com/KeithWLamb/posts/10206499620502163
 
How about some sort of "lift killer", like a bag on the wing that distorts the shape to eliminate the aerodynamics that create lift???
 
CT4ME said:
How about some sort of "lift killer", like a bag on the wing that distorts the shape to eliminate the aerodynamics that create lift???
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I saw a company that makes square foam blocks that sit on top of the wing for this purpose. I've never seen them in action, but it seems like they should at least have some effect.
 
JoeSelch said:
That would spoil everything!

CKE%20spoiler%20topside_zps9qzjwqxj.jpg.html
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DOH! :lol:
 
Henning said:
Nope. Can you select "Open in You Tube"?
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No. I think his daughter only uploaded to FB direct.

And I'm working from the FB iOS App which clearly has "Share Link" buttons that share links that lead to nowhere apparently. Frigging FB and their crap software. I'm sure the thing is tagged "Public" by him but can't be sure.

I'll see if he'll upload to YT or let me do it.
 
By the way Henning, he just shows a simple bowline hitch for the ground and a taught line for the aircraft backed with a half hitch. Nothing fancy but it gets the job done and people can *remember* how to do it, if they don't do ropes very often (like a lot of us in the West with chains everywhere).

His main concern in the video was surrounding how to properly use chains, and he shows how to use those without relying on the stupid S-hook to take weight or stress (put links through each other).

Many of the aircraft at Chandler were chained down and he points out that if you leave slack in chains, it's the snapping motion that breaks those and the bending of S-hooks used in the tie down rings. Get the chains on reasonably tight and then push the airplane back a little to get the slack out, and then get the tail on with as little slack as possible.

I've seen folks leave two or three feet of slack in chains. That just isn't gonna be good when the aircraft starts moving... And it's going to snap things hard at the end of the chain.
 
If you don't know the right knot, tie a lot of them!
 
Flight Training magazine had an article on it last summer.
 

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denverpilot said:
No. I think his daughter only uploaded to FB direct.

And I'm working from the FB iOS App which clearly has "Share Link" buttons that share links that lead to nowhere apparently. Frigging FB and their crap software. I'm sure the thing is tagged "Public" by him but can't be sure.

I'll see if he'll upload to YT or let me do it.
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Yeah, FB has been a complete POS for me the last few days with no links working.:dunno:
 
...'Rabbit comes out of his hole, under the log, and back in his hole...
Indelibly etched into my mind in the Boy Scouts.
 
upstateny said:
If you don't know the right knot, tie a lot of them!
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Frankly for some learning styles, that's exactly what you DON'T want to do to them. You want to teach a consistent "one way to do it" until they have it, not only nailed, but can do it in their sleep.

Then you can throw in variants.

Otherwise three or four years later when they're standing on a ramp somewhere and remembering bits and pieces of three different knots, they'll just make a huge mess and end up tying it like a shoelace, because ... primacy.

Give them a KISS knot that'll almost always work and lots of repetition at first. Lock that one into the brain cells. Then change it.
 
Most of us in Alaska have more than one set of wing covers and one will be mesh fabric with sewn-on spoilers. They do kill some lift but when the winds are hard enough to need spoilers you don't want wing covers on there to beat up the paint as they flap and flutter. Sometimes it's the best option, like when you're caught on terrain that doesn't allow good tie-downs.

wingcovervented.jpg
 
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CT4ME said:
...'Rabbit comes out of his hole, under the log, and back in his hole...
Indelibly etched into my mind in the Boy Scouts.
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:lol: I teach it, "Take the top of the line and make a loop with the top on the top then take the top up through the bottom, around the bottom and back out the bottom." When I was teaching sailing for an ASA school students were required to be tested on the knots and had to execute them in "a reasonable amount of time." So I told them they had to tie them faster with their hands than I could with my feet, sometimes they had to try a couple of times.:rofl:
 
denverpilot said:
Frankly for some learning styles, that's exactly what you DON'T want to do to them. You want to teach a consistent "one way to do it" until they have it, not only nailed, but can do it in their sleep.

Then you can throw in variants.

Otherwise three or four years later when they're standing on a ramp somewhere and remembering bits and pieces of three different knots, they'll just make a huge mess and end up tying it like a shoelace, because ... primacy.

Give them a KISS knot that'll almost always work and lots of repetition at first. Lock that one into the brain cells. Then change it.
Click to expand...

I guess I should have used a smiley. It was meant as a joke.:idea:
 
CT4ME said:
...'Rabbit comes out of his hole, under the log, and back in his hole...

Indelibly etched into my mind in the Boy Scouts.
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Slightly different for me - "rabbit comes out of the hole, around the tree, and back down the hole ..." - but I got the same indoctrination.

And our leader was an old Navy guy, so we got really good at semaphore - now THAT'S a skill you can use in real life. :)
 
when I was a kid working with my grandpa in powerline construction, he'd say

"That's a good lookin' crapaxe knot."

"What's that?"

"Looks like crap and will take an axe to untie."

I learned knots from him and didn't see any I didn't know until they introduced Marlinspike seamanship in boot camp. Pretty stuff ... for a bos'n mate.
 
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