How to solve the US pilot shortage

Rich Holt said:
That is not that big of a difference in QOL from the airlines. Lots of time away from home. Bad food. People. It all stinks.
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When he goes on vacation maybe. Otherwise home every night. Only a portion of trucking jobs are long haul, most are regional. Right now he pulls 2 loads of logs a day to the mill, then parks the truck in his yard during the week, leaving his car at the yard from monday morning to Friday afternoon, so he doesn't even have to drive to get the truck, or drop it off daily. He makes $442 per load.
 
Larry in TN said:
For a 23 year old kid just a few months out of college? That's the top 1% of US household, not even individual, incomes.

If you don't want to be an airline pilot then don't be one. We don't care. Nobody wants to fly a four-day trip with somebody who hates their job.
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I made over double that at 23, and that was 21 years ago.
And I have ZERO DESIRE TO BE AN AIRLINE PILOT!!!!!!!!
 
So what happens in a year or 2 to all these new hires when the economy crumbles, and people fly much less?

Do they become ' ditch diggers '?
 
Top two things people hate about their jobs:
  1. Nothing ever changes around here
  2. They’re always changing everything around here.
 
When a GA pilot tries to explain to an airline pilot how much their job sucks

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Groundpounder said:
When a GA pilot tries to explain to an airline pilot how much their job sucks

umm-confused.gif
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If I could be home every night, I'm sure I'd like it. But I have other things that I like to do on a weekly basis (sports leagues) so I could never do any job that isn't a known schedule 6 months out.
 
EdFred said:
If I could be home every night, I'm sure I'd like it. But I have other things that I like to do on a weekly basis (sports leagues) so I could never do any job that isn't a known schedule 6 months out.
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Great. You do you. We'll do us. I'll do me? Wait, what?
 
EdFred said:
If I could be home every night, I'm sure I'd like it. But I have other things that I like to do on a weekly basis (sports leagues) so I could never do any job that isn't a known schedule 6 months out.
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I had a copilot who got married thinking his wife understood the aviation schedule because her dad was an airline pilot. Turns out she didn’t realize how different corporate & charter was from airlines with regard to schedule.

he went to the airlines a couple of years later, and now that he can plan weekends/days off, etc., life has been good for them. I think he actually spends a lot of his time now working from home in the training department
 
Whitney said:
So what happens in a year or 2 to all these new hires when the economy crumbles, and people fly much less?

Do they become ' ditch diggers '?
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No. Ill fly somewhere else. Digging ditches is to much like real work.

Although I think for my next furlough I may just get a job selling cigars. That sounds like a more relaxing venue to ride out the economic down turn.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I had a copilot who got married thinking his wife understood the aviation schedule because her dad was an airline pilot. Turns out she didn’t realize how different corporate & charter was from airlines with regard to schedule.

he went to the airlines a couple of years later, and now that he can plan weekends/days off, etc., life has been good for them. I think he actually spends a lot of his time now working from home in the training department
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So the wife wanted him gone all the time? ;)
(I only base this on seeing a regional captain schedule)
 
jordane93 said:
I mean, lots of people from ALL types of professions hate their jobs, including pilots. There’s also people that love their jobs, including pilots. Not sure why POA thinks being an airline pilot is the only soul sucking job out there that everyone hates:dunno:. It works for some people and it doesn’t work for other people.
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Exactly.

I know many airline pilots who loved their career. And some that hated it.

As I have stated before, I looking to trying to land an airline job, looked closely at the job and myself, and decided that it was not a good fit for me. And I have been very happy in my career choice.

And when I am flying a very long leg, in the 30s with the autopilot flying, I am watching a moving, having a couple of drinks and stretching out (sometimes) and relaxing. :D
 
EdFred said:
If I could be home every night, I'm sure I'd like it. But I have other things that I like to do on a weekly basis (sports leagues) so I could never do any job that isn't a known schedule 6 months out.
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So you get hired by a major and in a year or so if you stay in category your senior enough to pick the days you work and perhaps fly turns only. You are going to find very few jobs actually offer the flexibility of a major airline and the ability to make mid 6 figure incomes.
 
Jeff767 said:
So you get hired by a major and in a year or so if you stay in category your senior enough to pick the days you work and perhaps fly turns only. You are going to find very few jobs actually offer the flexibility of a major airline and the ability to make mid 6 figure incomes.
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How many years do I have to be at a regional first? ( I have the hours, but 0 turbine time, and no bachelors.) And then when I want to move from right seat to left seat, how long is it before I have 3 nights a week and weekends off?

As it is now, I wake up at 7:30 am, home by 5:15 every night, haven't worked a weekend since 1993, can take a long weekend pretty much whenever I want, 2 hour lunches if I feel like it, no real limit on vacation days, today I'm wearing jeans, hat, and a t shirt.

Granted I'm not making $500,000/year, but I have been 100% debt free since 2008, and will be retiring 12 years early with as much disposable income as I have working now.
 
EdFred said:
How many years do I have to be at a regional first? ( I have the hours, but 0 turbine time, and no bachelors.) And then when I want to move from right seat to left seat, how long is it before I have 3 nights a week and weekends off?

As it is now, I wake up at 7:30 am, home by 5:15 every night, haven't worked a weekend since 1993, can take a long weekend pretty much whenever I want, 2 hour lunches if I feel like it, no real limit on vacation days, today I'm wearing jeans, hat, and a t shirt.

Granted I'm not making $500,000/year, but I have been 100% debt free since 2008, and will be retiring 12 years early with as much disposable income as I have working now.
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Not everyone was born into a family business ;)
 
martym said:
No need. The shortage will resolve itself in the next recession.
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So no one will travel anymore and or the regional airlines will pay a proper wage?
 
Jackk said:
So no one will travel anymore and or the regional airlines will pay a proper wage?
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I'm curious what it will take for the naysayers to be satisfied with regional airline pay? First yr FO can earn $85k at most of the regional carriers. A topped out CA can break $200k. Not too long ago, a mainline CA wasn't making that. How much more do regionals need before they are no longer worthy of condemnation?
 
martym said:
I'm curious what it will take for the naysayers to be satisfied with regional airline pay? First yr FO can earn $85k at most of the regional carriers. A topped out CA can break $200k. Not too long ago, a mainline CA wasn't making that. How much more do regionals need before they are no longer worthy of condemnation?
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Just not taking a pay and quality of life cut to work for them.

With the experience most have who get their first 121, other industry options, dealing with airport terminals vs FBOs, and the extra responsibility with those seats.

Say year 1 FO; 100k on guarantee, firm week on week off, so I can plan my life out. matched 401 to 15%, full insurance.
 
Jackk said:
Just not taking a pay and quality of life cut to work for them.

With the experience most have who get their first 121, other industry options, dealing with airport terminals vs FBOs, and the extra responsibility with those seats.

Say year 1 FO; 100k on guarantee, firm week on week off, so I can plan my life out. matched 401 to 15%, full insurance.
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“we’ve established that you’re a whore, now we are just haggling over the price”. :D
 
martym said:
First yr FO can earn $85k at most of the regional carriers. A topped out CA can break $200k.
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Temporary pay which will go back down in two years, and thats at two out of the ~dozen regionals. The average pilot is earning half that or less.

martym said:
How much more do regionals need before they are no longer worthy of condemnation?
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The regionals do not need to exist, it's a legalized bait and switch scam, both for the customers as well as the employees.
 
Better yet, since they take gov bailouts, give me that gov style 30 year pension too.
 
dmspilot said:
Temporary pay which will go back down in two years, and thats at two out of the ~dozen regionals. The average pilot is earning half that or less.
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It's up to three now. PSA was added this week.

It's only temporary if they can staff at the lower rates in two years. Someone hired today at these new rates will be on 3rd year pay in two years and will likely have had the opportunity to upgrade. In any case, they won't drop back down to $63/hr.

The yearly figures are based on minimum guarantee of 75 hours. When an airline is short staffed, you have to be pretty senior to fly a low-time schedule, if you can at all. 85 to 90+ hours will be more common.

If this isn't enough to attract people who actually want to be airline pilots then I don't think anything is.

The other big reason that the airlines offered these increased rate is retention. They want their Captains, and particularly their line check airman (LCA), to stay until the flow to American instead of leaving earlier to go to Delta, United, etc. The LCAs are being paid over $400 per hour, more than legacy airline widebody Captains, for the time that they're doing initial operating experience (IOE) training. When airlines are busy upgrading and hiring, the majority of an LCA's trips will be giving IOE.
 
Larry in TN said:
It's up to three now. PSA was added this week.

It's only temporary if they can staff at the lower rates in two years. Someone hired today at these new rates will be on 3rd year pay in two years and will likely have had the opportunity to upgrade. In any case, they won't drop back down to $63/hr.

The yearly figures are based on minimum guarantee of 75 hours. When an airline is short staffed, you have to be pretty senior to fly a low-time schedule, if you can at all. 85 to 90+ hours will be more common.

If this isn't enough to attract people who actually want to be airline pilots then I don't think anything is.

The other big reason that the airlines offered these increased rate is retention. They want their Captains, and particularly their line check airman (LCA), to stay until the flow to American instead of leaving earlier to go to Delta, United, etc. The LCAs are being paid over $400 per hour, more than legacy airline widebody Captains, for the time that they're doing initial operating experience (IOE) training. When airlines are busy upgrading and hiring, the majority of an LCA's trips will be giving IOE.
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Yeah, what if I don’t want to fly 90hrs, and the flow is a joke, better to go street into delta than sit through all that for your golden ticket, one day, to American.

The bonuses are funny too, wow! a 25k bonus! We’ll it’s actually paid in installments over years soooo
 
Larry in TN said:
The yearly figures are based on minimum guarantee of 75 hours. When an airline is short staffed, you have to be pretty senior to fly a low-time schedule, if you can at all. 85 to 90+ hours will be more common.
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Not at a regional. You have to work on your days off to get 90+ hours. Especially Piedmont is known for low credit trips, min guarantee with min days off.
 
Pinecone said:
Exactly.

I know many airline pilots who loved their career. And some that hated it.

As I have stated before, I looking to trying to land an airline job, looked closely at the job and myself, and decided that it was not a good fit for me. And I have been very happy in my career choice.

And when I am flying a very long leg, in the 30s with the autopilot flying, I am watching a moving, having a couple of drinks and stretching out (sometimes) and relaxing. :D
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I’m also a little biased. My career (besides the Covid hiccup) has been stellar so far. I got in at a very good time.
 
EdFred said:
How many years do I have to be at a regional first? ( I have the hours, but 0 turbine time, and no bachelors.) And then when I want to move from right seat to left seat, how long is it before I have 3 nights a week and weekends off?

As it is now, I wake up at 7:30 am, home by 5:15 every night, haven't worked a weekend since 1993, can take a long weekend pretty much whenever I want, 2 hour lunches if I feel like it, no real limit on vacation days, today I'm wearing jeans, hat, and a t shirt.

Granted I'm not making $500,000/year, but I have been 100% debt free since 2008, and will be retiring 12 years early with as much disposable income as I have working now.
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Heavy equipment?
 
Piperonca said:
Heavy equipment?
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Nope, I'm in air conditioned comfort taking a break and surfing PoA.

It was a serious question though (and I know it wasn't originally addressed to you), how long am I at a regional before I can jump to mainline, and how long before I'm making $500,000 +/- $150,000 and have enough seniority that I get every bid I want, every time? And will they even *really* look at me without a bachelors, and 0 turbine.
 
Larry in TN said:
All I know is this update from earlier this week.
288167098_10166289144750593_8767480378487703296_n.jpg



Don't fly for an airline. None of us want to fly with pilots who don't want to be here.
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Here we go again with the defensive.

I would love to be there if it worked for my life and family, I love flying however I have made it decades without getting burned out. I think safety wise and getting people in the door, a good dependable salary and fixed schedule is a much better model
 
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