how to find the blown circuit in my stupid house

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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The maid came yesterday and did the upstairs. We don't ever have them clean that one (the sex dungeon) because is the only room upstairs and stays pretty clean.

So I guess FiFi did some vacuuming there and blew a circuit.

The lights work and a few outlets work but there are 5 or 6 outlets that are now dead along with the attic lights.

None of the breakers are flipped in the main box. And I have gone to every room in my house looking for those little outlets with the test reset button and I can't find any that are flipped.

There has to be one somewhere correct?
 
I hate ground fault breakers, too touchy for me.

Why would a breaker pop running only a vacuum?

Yes, there is a breaker popped somewhere. Electricians stay up late at night to figure out the most inconvenient and inconspicuous place to put them. :rolleyes2:
 
Last edited:
That's a good question.
One other thing I just remembered...

Yesterday I was running an extension cord outside. I plugged one end in and I threw the other one out to where I needed it but I missed and it went into the hot tub I wonder if that outside circuit might somehow be connected to that upstairs room. Still that should have flipped a breaker in the main box
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
That's a good question.
One other thing I just remembered...

Yesterday I was running an extension cord outside. I plugged one end in and I threw the other one out to where I needed it but I missed and it went into the hot tub I wonder if that outside circuit might somehow be connected to that upstairs room. Still that should have flipped a breaker in the main box
Click to expand...
Not necessarily if there was ground fault interrupter circuit in between.

I'd check the room or rooms that are on the same breaker circuit as the plug you used and look for a GFCI.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
None of the breakers are flipped in the main box. And I have gone to every room in my house looking for those little outlets with the test reset button and I can't find any that are flipped.

There has to be one somewhere correct?
Click to expand...

1) If the breakers are labeled for the upstairs then cycle them even if they don't appear to be open.
2) Test and reset all the GFCIs that might be in the circuit with the failed receptacles.
3) Call the electrician
 
I had one popped in the garage one time that was hooked into some in house. Another time one on water softener was popped in mechanical room that was hooked into adjoining bathroom. It's an adventure in the making!
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
That's a good question.
One other thing I just remembered...

Yesterday I was running an extension cord outside. I plugged one end in and I threw the other one out to where I needed it but I missed and it went into the hot tub I wonder if that outside circuit might somehow be connected to that upstairs room. Still that should have flipped a breaker in the main box
Click to expand...

All the outside outlets would be GFI protected. Find the outlet (outside) with a reset button. It might also be on a wall in the garage.

Some brands breakers can look like they're on but be kicked. You have to (gently) see if they'll move towards off. If so, turn it all the way off and then back on to reset it.

From your description I'm guessing there is one kicked. What brand of breakers do you have?

John

Former electrician...
 
Clark1961 said:
1) If the breakers are labeled for the upstairs then cycle them even if they don't appear to be open.
2) Test and reset all the GFCIs that might be in the circuit with the failed receptacles.
3) Call the electrician
Click to expand...
^^^^that^^^^

Plus.

4) reset a dozen clocks. :goofy:
 
ok, so yea I just confirmed the outdoor outlet is dead.
Here's the scenario. Running a cord from outdoor outlet to some lights.
Plugged it in, threw the female end of the cord, and it lands in the hot tub.

That cord didn't reach where I needed it so I switched to another outlet.
I just tested the original outdoor outlet and it is dead.

So I think it is highly plausible that this was what caused the problem.

Now how to locate the fault.
I will cycle the outdoor breaker.


Weird how these circuits are wired.
 
If it is GFI protected the inside breaker may not pop... It is possible that the outside GFI is the one that is the problem... did the outside GFI reset? Also those breaker may look like they are on but may be popped//reset them all except the obvious like the A/C etc...
 
In my house the GFCI for the outside plugs was mounted next to the fuse box. It took me months to figure that out, as I kept cycling the breakers trying to find what was tripped. So look there and don't forget the bathrooms, where GFCIs can be installed and daisy chained.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
That's a good question.
One other thing I just remembered...

Yesterday I was running an extension cord outside. I plugged one end in and I threw the other one out to where I needed it but I missed and it went into the hot tub I wonder if that outside circuit might somehow be connected to that upstairs room. Still that should have flipped a breaker in the main box
Click to expand...

midlifeflyer said:
Not necessarily if there was ground fault interrupter circuit in between.

I'd check the room or rooms that are on the same breaker circuit as the plug you used and look for a GFCI.
Click to expand...


Yup. If there's an outlet near the hot tub, there is likely a GFCI somewhere in the circuit that is tripped, and there could be other outlets piggybacked onto the line. I've got an outside outlet on a GFCI circuit that that will trip a bunch of odd outlets every year or two.

Dropping the extension cord into the tub will most likely NOT blow the circuit breaker. The intent of the GFCI is to cut off the source of power if a minuscule amount of current leaks to any path other than the neutral return line so people don't get killed.

The breaker for your outlet is usually 15 or 20 amps. The GFCI will cut out at 4-20 milliamps (0.004 to 0.020 amps), hopefully saving your butt (or whoever was in the tub when you threw the cord in there!)

You've got to get more creative if you want to collect on Mrs. SixPapaCharlie's life insurance policy!

<hint> -- run the extension cord from a non-GFCI outlet first, then pretend to stumble and drop the power tool into the hot tub. Dumping a little water softener salt into the tub first will enhance the effect. </hint>
 
Our GFCI circuits seem to end up in the main breaker box and marked specifically. It's been a long time, so I can't remember very well. They may all go to the same breaker?

Each of the outdoor outlets has the test/reset button on them.

We have one of those jetted tubs, so it has it's own GFCI - but you'd never find it, it's actually inside a closet around the corner, since that was the closest place to put in an outlet.

I'm trying to count them all up in my head - one for the tub, one for each bathroom, one for the kitchen, one by the front door, one by the back door, one in the basement, and another in the garage (any wet area has one).
 
Check your bathrooms - All of my outdoor outlets come off of one of the two GFIs in the bathrooms.
 
Just in case I am ever around when you decide to do any electrical work, remind me to get the hell away! Electric cords and hot tubs are a bad mix!

But follow Throttle's advice as if it were Dr. Bruce speaking: Do it exactly as he said and in that order. Sometimes you can't tell by looking if a breaker or GFC is tripped or not.

SixPapaCharlie said:
ok, so yea I just confirmed the outdoor outlet is dead.
Here's the scenario. Running a cord from outdoor outlet to some lights.
Plugged it in, threw the female end of the cord, and it lands in the hot tub.

That cord didn't reach where I needed it so I switched to another outlet.
I just tested the original outdoor outlet and it is dead.

So I think it is highly plausible that this was what caused the problem.

Now how to locate the fault.
I will cycle the outdoor breaker.


Weird how these circuits are wired.
Click to expand...
 
If it's blown, look for the one with a smile on its face. Should be easy to detect from the others.
 
Or it could be a bad plug. Breaker will be fine, but if the plug has gone bad, everything "downstream" of (and including) that plug will be dead. Had that happen in my kitchen; Replaced the plug, everything then worked.
 
Here's another hint - sometimes those outdoor GFIs just go bad. They are not very expensive, and get exposed to all kinds of temperatures and humidities. If you are plugged into an outlet that does have a set/reset switch, and it's dead, pull it out and check for voltage at the connection to the cable. If that is there, then replace that outlet.

I've replace my front outlet once, and my back outlet (gets the west sun) twice in the last 15-20 yrs.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
The breaker for your outlet is usually 15 or 20 amps. The GFCI will cut out at 4-20 milliamps (0.004 to 0.020 amps), hopefully saving your butt (or whoever was in the tub when you threw the cord in there!)
Click to expand...
Correct. People without any background in electricity often think that it takes enough current to trip a CB to kill you, when in fact currents of 20 mA or so are enough to temporarily paralyze you, and 100 mA is more than enough to be lethal if it passes through the heart.
 
Dont forget to apologize to the housekeeper for blaming her for blowing the switch when YOU threw an electrical cord in the hot tub...
 
Geico266;1793920[B said:
]I hate ground fault breakers, too touchy for me.
[/B]
Why would a breaker pop running only a vacuum?

Yes, there is a breaker popped somewhere. Electricians stay up late at night to figure out the most inconvenient and inconspicuous place to put them. :rolleyes2:
Click to expand...


Actually GFI's are for wet applications....

Internal /bedrooms etc are now required to use Arc Fault Breakers... Those POS's are 10 times more sensitive to tripping then GFI's.. And any device that has brushes in the motor will trip them.....

I HATE Arc Fault breakers...... Probably the dumbest idea NEC has had in 100 years...

So much so I "suggest" to the homeowners to remove them and install normal breakers... When they go to sell the house just reinstall the Arc crap to satisfy the home inspector........
 
A long time ago, when Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters (GFCIs) first became required (Late 1970's, for reference) I was doing residential electrical work. All receptacles in wet locations (outdoors, over bathroom counters, over the ground level floor in a garage, NOT kitchen counters because they were special-although that rule has since changed) were/are required to be protected by GFCI.

A GFCI breaker (that went into the electrical panel) was ~$35 wholesale. A normal breaker was ~$5. So we would wire all the required receptacles into a single circuit. A typical 3 BR/2 BA house would have one GFCI circuit with 4 or 5 receptacles on it. (That's normal loading in residential, 5 receptacles on a 15amp circuit.)

Then GFCI receptacles came out. They were ~$17 and would protect all the circuit down stream. So we would use a regular breaker, make the GFCI receptacle first in the chain and still wire all the GFCI required receptacles on the same circuit.

So now, when you throw the extension cord into the hot tub, the outlets over your bathroom sinks go out. Then Mrs. 6PC, who's drying her hair, has to come out to the garage (or, even better, the outside receptacle) to reset the GFCI so she can finish drying her hair. Yeah, not so great. But it is cost effective. And when I was doing it, residential wiring was so cutthroat we would bid subdivisions at ~$50/~$90 profit per house. 1 warranty service call would lose the profit from 2 houses. But if you didn't cut it that close, there was no work.

John
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
That's a good question.
One other thing I just remembered...

Yesterday I was running an extension cord outside. I plugged one end in and I threw the other one out to where I needed it but I missed and it went into the hot tub I wonder if that outside circuit might somehow be connected to that upstairs room. Still that should have flipped a breaker in the main box
Click to expand...

Freshwater doesn't conduct electricity, remember :rolleyes:
 
N801BH said:
Actually GFI's are for wet applications....

Internal /bedrooms etc are now required to use Arc Fault Breakers... Those POS's are 10 times more sensitive to tripping then GFI's.. And any device that has brushes in the motor will trip them.....

I HATE Arc Fault breakers...... Probably the dumbest idea NEC has had in 100 years...

So much so I "suggest" to the homeowners to remove them and install normal breakers... When they go to sell the house just reinstall the Arc crap to satisfy the home inspector........
Click to expand...


You should see what RF does to those asinine things. A ham radio buddy just ripped them all out of his house after keying up for his first contact in the new house on his HF rig and causing half the house to black out.

Those things are definitely not ready for prime time.
 
kkoran said:
What kind of weirdo are you? A upstairs sex dungeon? Dungeons are normally in the basement.
Click to expand...

No basements in that part of the world so they gotta make do.
 
N801BH said:
Actually GFI's are for wet applications....

Internal /bedrooms etc are now required to use Arc Fault Breakers... Those POS's are 10 times more sensitive to tripping then GFI's.. And any device that has brushes in the motor will trip them.....

I HATE Arc Fault breakers...... Probably the dumbest idea NEC has had in 100 years...

So much so I "suggest" to the homeowners to remove them and install normal breakers... When they go to sell the house just reinstall the Arc crap to satisfy the home inspector........
Click to expand...

The second dumbest thing was to go from a 3 prong outlet to a 4 prong outlet for dryers & stoves. How many grounds do they need? :mad2:
 
Geico266 said:
The second dumbest thing was to go from a 3 prong outlet to a 4 prong outlet for dryers & stoves. How many grounds do they need? :mad2:
Click to expand...

The red wire isn't a ground. Bet you hate 3-way switches because of the extra ground wires too.
 
Geico266 said:
The second dumbest thing was to go from a 3 prong outlet to a 4 prong outlet for dryers & stoves. How many grounds do they need? :mad2:
Click to expand...

That is because parts of the dryer run on 115V not 230V so they were using the ground as a neutral. Ground is not supposed to be a current carrying conductor. Now they have two hots, a neutral and a ground. (I'm very pragmatic where it comes to wiring according to code now that I don't have an electricians license to worry about and I still think 4 wires for dryers and stoves is a Good Thing.)

John
 
ktup-flyer said:
Freshwater doesn't conduct electricity, remember :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Pure freshwater does not. But pure freshwater in a pool or hot tub turns green very fast...

The chemicals in the pool water make it conduct very nicely.

John
 
I had a GFCI outlet blow in my house once during a thunderstorm. So, after the storm, I go to open the garage and find it's dead. Go to the breakers, nope, nothing there. Search the entire garage, not a single GFCI reset button in sight (the outlet for the opener had a GFCI label).

So, I snake an extension cord to another circuit so the opener works and say "I need to call an electrician", but since everthing's working, days pass to weeks, pass to months.

Then, about 3 months later, I'm down in the basement, and pull out a chair to vacuum behind it (don't use the basement much), and there's a GFCI reset breaker on the power outlet there...I say to myself "Self, no f***ing way they put the GFCI reset for the garage down here in the basement, is there?" Well, I hit the reset, go up and lo and behold, the opener outlet was LIVE!
 
Yeah, the way they wire things sometimes is ridiculous to say the least. My rule when I'm wiring: One breaker per room - or at most adjacent rooms. Extra wiring? Probably. Headaches: None.
 
JeffDG said:
I had a GFCI outlet blow in my house once during a thunderstorm. So, after the storm, I go to open the garage and find it's dead. Go to the breakers, nope, nothing there. Search the entire garage, not a single GFCI reset button in sight (the outlet for the opener had a GFCI label).

So, I snake an extension cord to another circuit so the opener works and say "I need to call an electrician", but since everthing's working, days pass to weeks, pass to months.

Then, about 3 months later, I'm down in the basement, and pull out a chair to vacuum behind it (don't use the basement much), and there's a GFCI reset breaker on the power outlet there...I say to myself "Self, no f***ing way they put the GFCI reset for the garage down here in the basement, is there?" Well, I hit the reset, go up and lo and behold, the opener outlet was LIVE!
Click to expand...

The basement receptacle was the home run (i.e. first in the chain from the panel). Yep. No basements in Florida where I was wiring houses, but we did exactly that sort of stuff. Generally the outlet in the garage fed all the rest of the GFCI outlets in the house.

John
 
jsstevens;1794981[B said:
]That is because parts of the dryer run on 115V not 230V so they were using the ground as a neutra[/B]l. Ground is not supposed to be a current carrying conductor. Now they have two hots, a neutral and a ground. (I'm very pragmatic where it comes to wiring according to code now that I don't have an electricians license to worry about and I still think 4 wires for dryers and stoves is a Good Thing.)

John
Click to expand...


Hmmmmm..

I "thought" they used the white/ neutral......... for a NEUTRAL..:idea::idea::idea:
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
ok, so yea I just confirmed the outdoor outlet is dead.
Here's the scenario. Running a cord from outdoor outlet to some lights.
Plugged it in, threw the female end of the cord, and it lands in the hot tub.
Click to expand...

Sorry I couldn't make it to your pool party. I was busy organizing my sock drawer.

:D
 
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