How safe do you think this guy is?

Sac Arrow

Sac Arrow

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Snorting his way across the USA
A friend of mine is a US citizen but lives and works in Asia. He's always wanted to be a pilot, but in his country of residence there is no access to GA whatsoever. About a year ago, he got his PPL on an extended two week vacation back to the US. Roughly six months ago, he took another two week vacation back to the US to get his instrument rating. Both his PPL and his IR were obtained with an independent CFI/CFII in an immersion type training program.

Problem is he has had no flight experience other than those four weeks of training, save for a few hours of dual in years past. I think for VFR flight, with a refresher with a CFI, he should be okay if he comes back and does some flying. What I fear though is I just don't see how he's going to hold things together in hard IMC on his own, should he choose to tackle that. It could well be over a year before he makes his next flight.

What are others' thoughts? This combination of rapid training followed by no experience seems dangerous to me.
 
Works out most of the time because people whose lives are like that don't have the time to kill themselves. If they get the time they can get up to speed. Otherwise it is the same as pilot mill grads compared to owners they have more structured flying but less independent thought allowed. Skydiving a few years ago added a time in sport requirement in addition to X jumps for instructional ratings, it is an issue but not usually a big one.
 
Should be fine if he gets some brush up training ,before going IMC.
 
I agree it sounds like a bad idea for him to go into IMC on his own, or for him to do much beyond basic VFR flight. So, I'd make this point to him.
 
He's safe as long as he isn't flying and it doesn't sound like he's doing much of that.

My past experience was also intensive training followed by long breaks. Then I was careful to use a CFI for a day or two before going off on long cross country flights. This year, I've been more consistent in my flying with fewer breaks, but there is no question that very low time combined with long breaks is potentially dangerous and negatively affects your skills. The corollary is that flying regularly noticeably improves your skills.

I have doubts about how good he can be as an IFR pilot without more experience of weather that comes from long trips. He really should be careful and you shouldn't be bashful about telling him so.
 
Yeah just for edification "friend" isn't myself, but more accurately a coworker. I have had that discussion with him, and hopefully he has the sense to get some refresher training before he goes at it again.
 
Sac Arrow said:
This combination of rapid training followed by no experience seems dangerous to me.
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It does to me, too, but without flying with him, I couldn't say for sure. But as I tell every one of my 10-day IR trainees, the general rule is: "That which is quickly learned is as quickly forgotten if not as quickly exercised." I certainly wouldn't be loaning this cat my airplane to go fly without further ado, especially IFR. And I suspect that would be the position taken by anybody with an airplane for rent. The only way I see this guy getting in the air without some refresher training is if he buys a plane himself.
 
Ron Levy said:
It does to me, too, but without flying with him, I couldn't say for sure. But as I tell every one of my 10-day IR trainees, the general rule is: "That which is quickly learned is as quickly forgotten if not as quickly exercised." I certainly wouldn't be loaning this cat my airplane to go fly without further ado, especially IFR. And I suspect that would be the position taken by anybody with an airplane for rent. The only way I see this guy getting in the air without some refresher training is if he buys a plane himself.
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I went through a 3 day multi training. I felt less prepared for that checkride than the PPL or IR. Can't speak for others, but I didn't really care for that approach.
 
Given the elapsed time he'll need an IPC before being legal to accept an IFR clearance. And a proper IPC should find any weaknesses.

I haven't flown in a bit over a year, and don't expect to until sometime next year. Needless to say, that first flight (or more) will be with a CFII in the right seat as we knock off the rust. I have a few more hours than your friend. I think he'll need to do the same before considering flying solo.
 
rbridges said:
I went through a 3 day multi training. I felt less prepared for that checkride than the PPL or IR. Can't speak for others, but I didn't really care for that approach.
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You want to find out a lot about the value of a multiengine training course, ask them if they'll let you take the plane out on an XC trip without one of their instructors as soon as the practical test is complete.
 
I normally do not comment on questions like this. Since I have no idea where he will be going and what the weather will be or what kind of an airplane he will be flying its impossible to do anything but speculate. He could start out and find the weather is too much, stop an rent a car. He might start out and have airplane problems and have no choice but to rent a car. He might decide to press on and never come back. I was wondering who is going to rent him an airplane. Usually rent airplanes require checkouts and requirements for low time pilots. It will probably work out but you never know.
 
I don't find anything patently wrong with accelerated flight courses, but as Cap'n Ron points out, if you don't put your training to use on a regular basis, you are more likely to forget it. I can't speak to accelerated flight training, but I have had other licensing preparatory courses in subject areas out of my practice, which were useless for any practical purpose other than to pass the test.
 
4 weeks worth if training, sounds like next to no time flying by himself, he'll probably be ok for some buzzing around the local area VFR in a lightly loaded 172 or something.

Single pilot IFR, as in IMC, I wouldn't want to be in or under that plane.
 
There is IMC and then there is IMC. Easiest intro to flying in IMC is to fly with VFR under you above the MVA in clouds above 40 degrees. Lots of "outs" in that scenario.
Night over mountains in clouds to the ground below freezing with turbulence is another thing altogether.

Sounds like the guy is working his way up. Whoever rents him the plane will be checking him out for sure. No one on this board has any way of knowing whether he can fly competently or not. Compentency is all over the place with pilots.
 
Ron Levy said:
You want to find out a lot about the value of a multiengine training course, ask them if they'll let you take the plane out on an XC trip without one of their instructors as soon as the practical test is complete.
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Good test!

I know a certain aerobatics instructor that will give dual in his airplane but will not let a former student solo. I think I know all I need to know about him.

OTOH, another CFI at the same field will do tailwheel and basic aerobatics and will let the student solo after granting the endorsement.

Very interesting....
 
What's legal is not always safe, and what's safe is not always legal.

I can get a fresh multi ticket, go buy a 421, and fly it with no further instruction or multi time. Legal!

I could not legally, with thousands and thousands of hours of time in many different kinds of jets, just hop into a jet for which I was not type rated and fly it. Of course, I don't have any jet time, but you get the point.
 
I can get a fresh multi ticket, go buy a 421, and fly it with no further instruction or multi time. Legal!
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Don't forget insurance requirements. Odds are you'd need much more than FAA minimums to get a reasonable rate. Same goes for the OP's friend if he were to buy instead of rent.
 
RotorDude said:
Don't forget insurance requirements. Odds are you'd need much more than FAA minimums to get a reasonable rate. Same goes for the OP's friend if he were to buy instead of rent.
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Insurance isn't legally required. More than one uninsurable pilot has gone without insurance.

My point was to illustrate you can legally do something that's not safe, and safely do something that's not legal.
 
That's a fast IR ticket. It's got to be hard to fit 50 hrs X-C and 35 hrs of Instrument time in 2 weeks. That's 8 hrs a day in the air plus ground, the books, the written, and checkride. Sounds like enough work that it might zap the fun out of all that flying. I applaud him for getting it so quickly though.
 
I did my IR I an intense week. I rarely ever fly in IMC. I do an IPC with some frequency, although there was a point I was a decade out. It did not take very long at all to be flying a 310 to ComIR PTS. However it required a second pilot to handle the 530/430/MX-20 technology for me. I think if you get the correct flight training in an intensive 40hrs in a week, then the physical aspects will not go very far. However, that is only a fraction of what operating in IFR requires. The mental aspects are much more readily lost, the procedures and such.
 
Insurance isn't legally required.
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In the US. But I notice you fly in Canada, where liability insurance is mandatory.
 
RotorDude said:
In the US. But I notice you fly in Canada, where liability insurance is mandatory.
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Mexico, too. So I take your point.

Assumption was a US-pilot. And I'm also not talking about something I would do. I actually went beyond the insurance requirements when I bought my Aztec.

If I bought a 421 today, I would actually possibly be insurable without training. The current insurance market is favorable and my background has plenty of relevant hours.
 
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TriGear28 said:
That's a fast IR ticket. It's got to be hard to fit 50 hrs X-C and 35 hrs of Instrument time in 2 weeks. That's 8 hrs a day in the air plus ground, the books, the written, and checkride. Sounds like enough work that it might zap the fun out of all that flying. I applaud him for getting it so quickly though.
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Yeah, he described it as two weeks of hell and no sleep. Certainly I applaud the effort but I wouldn't want to go about it that way.
 
James331 said:
4 weeks worth if training, sounds like next to no time flying by himself, he'll probably be ok for some buzzing around the local area VFR in a lightly loaded 172 or something.

Single pilot IFR, as in IMC, I wouldn't want to be in or under that plane.
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Me either. He needs a lot more experience.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Yeah, he described it as two weeks of hell and no sleep. Certainly I applaud the effort but I wouldn't want to go about it that way.
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I did one accelerated instrument course and that's about what it was for the student. He did well with it, but hasn't used his IR much since.
 
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