How necessary is iPad GPS for ForeFlight?

Jakl15

Jakl15

Pre-Flight
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Sep 5, 2014
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Jakl
I purchased an iPad Mini 5 64GB on Black Friday, but it is Wi-Fi only. I did not realize that the cellular model is the only with built-in GPS.

Currently my wife and I are just renting to see how GA fits in our lifestyle (previously committed to purchasing, but then 2 kids changed things a little). We plan to spend the next year renting and seeing how often we truly fly. I got this iPad with the plan of using it mainly for ForeFlight. I do not currently have a Stratus, but all of the aircraft I will be renting have either a moving map GPS or ADS-B in (most are still predominantly steam gauge, though)

I see myself getting a puck down the road IOT have weather capability as well as ADS-B in/out, but that likely won't happen until if we decide to purchase our own plane.

So beyond breadcrumbs and having your aircraft shown on the approach plate, how much use is the GPS antenna on the iPad? And if I'm already flying an aircraft with a moving map GPS, is it necessary?
 
It's never "necessary". As long as you have relevant information related to the flight, you're covered. You don't technically need to have a map on board (although that's certainly prudent). I wouldn't rely on the internal GPS from an iDevice anyway. The Stratus/Stratux units are more reliable at getting a signal and won't wear down the tablet battery as fast.
 
It's as necessary as it would be with a paper chart. It is handy to just have the dot on the map of course.

I flew with a stratus for years, now I've switched to a panel mount option which is the best. For cross country, ADS-B in is very useful for being able to get weather updates in the air. I think that's the most valuable feature in the whole package. If I was buying another external GPS I'd definitely go for the ADS-B in option.
 
As mentioned by @cowman , you can use it as a paper chart. However, you can use an external GPS, too. I use a Bad Elf, because I can use it for other purposes, such as geotagging photographs.

You can build a Stratux with a GPS, too which also gives ADSB in, or get one of the other ADSB (Stratus, Dual, etc).
 
I use mine with Stratux for “in” (traffic. WX) and for GPS redundancy.

I use North up for one and track up for the other. Different zoom levels. VFR/IFR chart for one.

Having both in-panel GPS and FF/iPad/Stratux just gives more tools and situational awareness, as long as they are not distracting from safety.

FYI, if you have an iPhone, there’s your GPS chip if needed, and ADSB-in. Plus, if you tether your iPad to the iPhone hotspot, any FF update or download to your iPhone will automatically be updated via web to your iPad (flight plans, latest WX, fuel prices, etc).
 
Jakl15 said:
I purchased an iPad Mini 5 64GB on Black Friday, but it is Wi-Fi only. I did not realize that the cellular model is the only with built-in GPS.

Currently my wife and I are just renting to see how GA fits in our lifestyle (previously committed to purchasing, but then 2 kids changed things a little). We plan to spend the next year renting and seeing how often we truly fly. I got this iPad with the plan of using it mainly for ForeFlight. I do not currently have a Stratus, but all of the aircraft I will be renting have either a moving map GPS or ADS-B in (most are still predominantly steam gauge, though)

I see myself getting a puck down the road IOT have weather capability as well as ADS-B in/out, but that likely won't happen until if we decide to purchase our own plane.

So beyond breadcrumbs and having your aircraft shown on the approach plate, how much use is the GPS antenna on the iPad? And if I'm already flying an aircraft with a moving map GPS, is it necessary?
Click to expand...

You don't need to buy a Stratus to add the GPS inputs to your iPad. You can use something like a Garmin GLO or a Bad Elf device to get GPS only. I use a GLO for the GPS signal for ForeFlight on my secondary (old) iPad which does not have the built in GPS. I think you can buy them from Amazon for about $100.

And unlike so many other Garmin products you don't need to pay a dealer to install it to make it legal. ;):D
 
Jakl15 said:
I purchased an iPad Mini 5 64GB on Black Friday, but it is Wi-Fi only. I did not realize that the cellular model is the only with built-in GPS.

Currently my wife and I are just renting to see how GA fits in our lifestyle (previously committed to purchasing, but then 2 kids changed things a little). We plan to spend the next year renting and seeing how often we truly fly. I got this iPad with the plan of using it mainly for ForeFlight. I do not currently have a Stratus, but all of the aircraft I will be renting have either a moving map GPS or ADS-B in (most are still predominantly steam gauge, though)

I see myself getting a puck down the road IOT have weather capability as well as ADS-B in/out, but that likely won't happen until if we decide to purchase our own plane.

So beyond breadcrumbs and having your aircraft shown on the approach plate, how much use is the GPS antenna on the iPad? And if I'm already flying an aircraft with a moving map GPS, is it necessary?
Click to expand...
Do you carry a phone that can tether the iPad?
 
I don't have a cellular ipad. I use it mostly for on the ground flight planning and for an approach plate. Anything else I need is available in the panel. I rarely actually use the iPad in flight for much.

That being said, the few times I'm in Stratux equipped aircraft it is handy having location, weather, and NOTAM data available through ADS-B, but again almost all is available in the panel for me.
 
I have an iPad without cellular. I started with a Bad Elf, and later transitioned to a Stratus. Worked fine for me. The iPad and Stratus/Bad Elf went in my flight bag. A little extra effort to make sure everything was charged, but other than that, no biggie. I got the Stratus used, so I saved a few $$$.
At one time I had heard that the internal GPS wasn’t as accurate as an external unit such as those I mentioned, but maybe I heard wrong or it was an OWT (no shortage of those in aviation, lol)
 
Omalley1537 said:
I have an iPad without cellular. I started with a Bad Elf, and later transitioned to a Stratus. Worked fine for me. The iPad and Stratus/Bad Elf went in my flight bag. A little extra effort to make sure everything was charged, but other than that, no biggie. I got the Stratus used, so I saved a few $$$.
At one time I had heard that the internal GPS wasn’t as accurate as an external unit such as those I mentioned, but maybe I heard wrong or it was an OWT (no shortage of those in aviation, lol)
Click to expand...
Is it possible that the external GPS has the advantage of being placed where it can get a good signal, while the internal GPS placement is limited by where you can see the iThing screen?
I've noticed some odd locations and tracks on hand-held GPS over the years presumably because the signal bounced around the vehicle before getting received. Other times, an entire loss of signal. It doesn't happen very often. Otherwise, the accuracy should be the same.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Is it possible that the external GPS has the advantage of being placed where it can get a good signal, while the internal GPS placement is limited by where you can see the iThing screen?
Click to expand...
Yes. Next month will be 10 years since I first subscribed. All o f my iPads have been WiFi only. My choice at the beginning was exactly for that reason. it was a choice I haven't had a reason to second guess, and less reason to second guess every year. And my iPad is definitely not for aviation only.

YMMV.
 
I'm a little surprised at this thread. I have a Samsung Galaxy tablet without cellular and its GPS works great. Very accurate. Having said that, I really only use it to follow along on a downloaded sectional chart. I guess I could fly an approach with it in the event of an emergency.
 
DoubleD said:
I'm a little surprised at this thread. I have a Samsung Galaxy tablet without cellular and its GPS works great. Very accurate. Having said that, I really only use it to follow along on a downloaded sectional chart. I guess I could fly an approach with it in the event of an emergency.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Galaxy has a GPS in the wifi only model. iPad doesn't.
 
DoubleD said:
I'm a little surprised at this thread. I have a Samsung Galaxy tablet without cellular and its GPS works great. Very accurate. Having said that, I really only use it to follow along on a downloaded sectional chart. I guess I could fly an approach with it in the event of an emergency.
Click to expand...
Unlike Samsung, Apple chooses to tie the internal GPS to cellular capability. Just another business model.
 
A few thoughts. Wi Fi only I pad will work fine while flying.

You rent planes now. The rental plane has ADSB - probably from a Garmin 345 transponder or a stratus transponder. In the plane you link your I pad by either Bluetooth or wi fi to the transponder. That gives you real time traffic and weather on your moving map. If for some reason you don’t have an ADSB-in transponder, you buy a sentry or other type of portable ADSB device.

IF you can return it and get the cellular gps model however, I suggest doing that. It makes the I pad so much more useful all around.
 
I am on my fourth iPad without GPS and I’ve never missed it. A cellular enabled iPad will not give you traffic and weather. Instead of spending another $150 on the cellular version pick up a Scout, Stratux, or Stratus and you get both traffic and weather.

My Cherokee does not have ADSB-out and it’s rare that I don’t see traffic. Other planes I fly have ADSB-out and you get traffic all the time.
 
I still have a foreflight sentry ads-b from when I rented. Its only got about 30 hours of use. Send me a PM if you are interested in a used one. The GPS moving map is nice, but the ADSB-In is a huge safety enhancement.

Jakl15 said:
I purchased an iPad Mini 5 64GB on Black Friday, but it is Wi-Fi only. I did not realize that the cellular model is the only with built-in GPS.

Currently my wife and I are just renting to see how GA fits in our lifestyle (previously committed to purchasing, but then 2 kids changed things a little). We plan to spend the next year renting and seeing how often we truly fly. I got this iPad with the plan of using it mainly for ForeFlight. I do not currently have a Stratus, but all of the aircraft I will be renting have either a moving map GPS or ADS-B in (most are still predominantly steam gauge, though)

I see myself getting a puck down the road IOT have weather capability as well as ADS-B in/out, but that likely won't happen until if we decide to purchase our own plane.

So beyond breadcrumbs and having your aircraft shown on the approach plate, how much use is the GPS antenna on the iPad? And if I'm already flying an aircraft with a moving map GPS, is it necessary?
Click to expand...
 
Ravioli said:
The iPad is extra crap. In for a penny, in for a pound.
Click to expand...
I understand why people buy iPads—aviation apps favour them—but I find it bizarre that the so-called premium iPad tablet has GPS only as $$$ extra, when even the cheapest <$50 Android tablets targeting developing countries include GPS by default.
 
smounic said:
I still have a foreflight sentry ads-b from when I rented. Its only got about 30 hours of use. Send me a PM if you are interested in a used one. The GPS moving map is nice, but the ADSB-In is a huge safety enhancement.
Click to expand...

PMd you
 
David Megginson said:
I understand why people buy iPads—aviation apps favour them—but I find it bizarre that the so-called premium iPad tablet has GPS only as $$$ extra, when even the cheapest <$50 Android tablets targeting developing countries include GPS by default.
Click to expand...

Other than ForeFlight I don’t have any apps on my iPad that would even use GPS. And there’s only been a couple of times when I wished that I had cellular on my iPad.

My guess is that Apple knows this about their customers and figures they can get the extra $150 out of the people who need cellular. And if you need cellular that means you’re not somewhere with Wi-Fi so you might need GPS as well.
 
As others have said, definitely worth $150 extra to have GPS. Replace it now while still in the return window.
 
JScarry said:
Other than ForeFlight I don’t have any apps on my iPad that would even use GPS. And there’s only been a couple of times when I wished that I had cellular on my iPad.

My guess is that Apple knows this about their customers and figures they can get the extra $150 out of the people who need cellular. And if you need cellular that means you’re not somewhere with Wi-Fi so you might need GPS as well.
Click to expand...
You've never used any other georeferenced apps on you tablet? A sky/star map at the cottage to pick out constellations? Augmented reality? Offline maps during foreign travel? Uber Eats?

In survey work (the human kind, not the construction kind), Android tablets are as dominant as iOS ones are for aviation, precisely because of that built-in GPS.

My guess is that this is just something Apple flubbed. Remember when Apple computers had only one button on the mouse and Apple fans claimed more weren't necessary, until Apple added more buttons and Apple fans praised them for their genius? Or when Apple said larger smartphones like the Galaxy note where ridiculous and Apple fans made fun of them as "phablets" until Apple started selling larger smartphones, and the word disappeared?

Apple has a well-deserved reputation for good user design, but everyone gets it wrong sometimes, and they're slower than most to admit their mistakes.
 
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pigpenracing said:
But it really sucks needing to have other devices to make the ipad function.
Click to expand...
I don't agree. I never had a celular Ipad. I have used the Bad Elf and the Stratus. They are relatively cheap, and work fine. Now that I have a GNX, it really doesn't matter. But, to each their own.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Is it possible that the external GPS has the advantage of being placed where it can get a good signal, while the internal GPS placement is limited by where you can see the iThing screen?
I've noticed some odd locations and tracks on hand-held GPS over the years presumably because the signal bounced around the vehicle before getting received.
Click to expand...

I suspect so. I can just place the stratus in the sun screen in the crook near the door and the wind shield. It doesn't move, and gets decent reception of both ADSB signals and GPS. At least, that's what I used to do before we added the GNX 375.
 
David Megginson said:
You've never used any other georeferenced apps on you tablet? A sky/star map at the cottage to pick out constellations? Augmented reality? Offline maps during foreign travel? Uber Eats?
Click to expand...

You seem to be under the impression that everyone who owns an airplane is rich. I don’t have a cottage, don’t travel internationally, and can’t afford Uber Eats (not that I’d use it anyway). None those things you mentioned require GPS in a tablet anyway.

FYI, GoSkyWatch works fine without GPS.

I did finally get an iPhone a couple of years ago, but the only time I used the GPS was once when I was trying to find the Fresno FSDO.
 
JScarry said:
Other than ForeFlight I don’t have any apps on my iPad that would even use GPS. And there’s only been a couple of times when I wished that I had cellular on my iPad.

My guess is that Apple knows this about their customers and figures they can get the extra $150 out of the people who need cellular. And if you need cellular that means you’re not somewhere with Wi-Fi so you might need GPS as well.
Click to expand...
Just out of curiosity, does anyone one know if the chip is in all iPads, and disabled in some of them, or whether they actually
Cogito said:
As others have said, definitely worth $150 extra to have GPS. Replace it now while still in the return window.
Click to expand...
As others have said, definitely save the $150, get a cheap external GPS.

An equally valid opinion :)
 
pigpenracing said:
But it really sucks needing to have other devices to make the ipad function.
Click to expand...
Not really. I use a Bad Elf and a Stratux. And I have a portable GPS that takes next to no space in my camera bag for geotagging photographs, so I get more flexibility out of the package.
 
I consider the iPad GPS essentially a backup in case all else fails. My go-to source is a Sentry unit which easily suction cups into whatever AC I happen to be flying that day. Incidentally, I chose the Sentry over the other options because it has the carbon monoxide alarm feature, which I especially like in older GA acft. With the Sentry, I get GPS, AHRS in case of on-board instrument failure, and ADS-B with traffic alerts piped into my headset via BT. If one of the external units (Sentry, Stratus, Perverted Elves, etc) is not an option; then as someone else mentioned, many of the current ADS-B compliant transponders also offer either BT or Wi-Fi so you can hook up to that to supply GPS to your iPad, and get the traffic display layer in FF as an added bonus. I've used this latter options a couple times after I wasn't swift enough to keep my Sentry (with its for-real 12 hr battery -- duh) charged... Again, I consider the Pad's GPS to be only a back up to these better options. In the almost four years since I returned to aviation, I've not yet had the "better options" degrade to the point where I had to use the iPad's GPS.

All that said, in my PREVIOUS aviation life, as ECMO (the Navigator!) in the EA-6B (80s and early 90s) I first flew a version of the bird that had no GPS, no INS, just TACAN and a crappy Doppler Nav radar. We had to work our arses off to maintain nav SA, all the time. Bottom Line: all these toys are nice, but always be ready to throw them out the window and find your own way home. Keep your Nav Solution where it belongs: BETWEEN YOUR EARS!
 
To answer the question, not that important. For the GPS version it’s also cellular, correct? Don’t you need to add that as a monthly payment on your carrier plan to remain activated? I really don’t know because I’ve always used wifi only iPads and Bad Elf before and now the Sentry (includes CO monitoring plus everything else) and cheaper than a Stratus.
 
David Megginson said:
Not at all, but I might sometimes make the assumption that people who choose to buy iPads have a bit of spare change sitting around. :)
Click to expand...
And sometimes that is a false assumption. I've gotten two ipads "free" from credit card points from stuff I already buy. Note the quotes around "free". As I pay my cards in full each month, I realize someone else paid for them.:)
 
woodchucker said:
To answer the question, not that important. For the GPS version it’s also cellular, correct? Don’t you need to add that as a monthly payment on your carrier plan to remain activated? I really don’t know because I’ve always used wifi only iPads and Bad Elf before and now the Sentry (includes CO monitoring plus everything else) and cheaper than a Stratus.
Click to expand...
No, you don't need a cellular plan to use the iPad, or the GPS.
 
woodchucker said:
To answer the question, not that important. For the GPS version it’s also cellular, correct? Don’t you need to add that as a monthly payment on your carrier plan to remain activated? I really don’t know because I’ve always used wifi only iPads and Bad Elf before and now the Sentry (includes CO monitoring plus everything else) and cheaper than a Stratus.
Click to expand...
You don't actually need to purchase a cellular data plan for the GPS in the Cellular iPad to work.
 
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