How much space to build a plane (rv14)

[4RNB]

I sat in an rv14 and am considering ordering one. I have plans to go to AP school in August, goal to become IA to work on and sign off my own plane. Having mostly fit in the rv14 I am now wondering if building a plane at home will ultimately be more rewarding. School would take two hrs total travel each day, spouse does not like the time commitment but is supportive.

I’m wondering where to build it. Main garage would have to share space, might get dusty, would require insulation, wall closure, hvac. 24x40 at present, so lots of room. Little room to add to E panel.

I think I prefer a currently 3 sided shed, has power with room to grow. Business high power air compressor nearby. In total shed measures 16x60. 1/3 already has concrete. I can swing enclosed 16x20 with garage door on front, maybe go a bit over into adjoining area.

Is 16x20 going to be enough? I can get some wall storage up high.
Drywall or other interior.
Any general pointers?

Building and getting repairmen’s certificate sounds like it would fit my desires.

I have not flown in a 14, looking for a flight…hit me up

 

[donjohnston]

I have plans to go to AP school in August, goal to become IA to work on and sign off my own plane.

If you build it, you don’t need an A&P or an IA for anything. If you buy a completed plane, you’d only need an A&P for the conditional inspection.

 

[TCABM]

Pointer #1. Got to Van’s Air Force for much deeper info on the build process. Leaving the components exposed to weather is a great way to invite corrosion, killing your project before it even gets off the ground.

Workspace needed is essentially the same as a 1-bay garage; you can store some completed components off site until you’re ready to join the wings and H stab which is about the time you’ll be wanting a hangar anyways so finish the build there.

 

[tsts4]

If your only reason to go to A&P school is to work on your own plane AND you want to go E-AB, then as mentioned you technically don't need it so don't waste the time and money on the school unless you feel you really need it to competently and safely maintain your plane. Instead pour that time and money into the project. Building takes considerable effort and dedication especially when you have other full-time activities that compete for your time (my project took 9 years to complete mainly because of work and family obligations). Choose wisely.

 

[kyleb]

i built most of the components of my RV-6 in half of a 2 car garage. Stored them in the house when complete. If your garage has HVAC, I'd build there and store components in the shed when they are finished. I might use the shed to do fiberglass work and paint, but the garage would be ideal for the rest of the project - you won't create a bunch of dust working with aluminum...

 

[GeorgeC]

@iamtheari

 

[JOhnH]

If you build it, you don’t need an A&P or an IA for anything. If you buy a completed plane, you’d only need an A&P for the conditional inspection.

I think that's what he said.
Plan A was A&P school.
alternatively,
Plan B was build his own plane instead.

Plan B sounds good, but the big consideration is how long he is willing to commit to a build. I don't think I have ever heard of one start-to-finish in two years or less, although I guess an experienced A&P working on it full time may be able to do that. BWTFDIK? I never built one.

 

[tsts4]

I started my project in my finished basement workshop until I outgrew the door dimensions and like Kyle moved in half of our 2-car garage. I had everything on wheels of some sort so I could move my wife's car out and use the whole garage as needed and then push everything back for storage and put her car back (my contract with her). Finally moved out to a hangar for final assembly. My advice is unless you live 10min or less from the airport, stay at home as long as you possibly can. I moved out to the airport too early and it cost me a bunch of time.

 

[tsts4]

I think that's what he said.
Plan A was A&P school.
alternatively,
Plan B was build his own plane instead.

Plan B sounds good, but the big consideration is how long he is willing to commit to a build. I don't think I have ever heard of one start-to-finish in two years or less, although I guess an experienced A&P working on it full time may be able to do that. BWTFDIK? I never built one.

Well he opened with thinking about ordering an RV-14 so there's that. I know of a number of RV-10s, which is a big plane, done start to finish in less than 2 years and these were not full time builds so it can be done. That said anecdotally I'd say non-RV12 models average more like 3.5-4 years. Lots of variables that go into determining how long it actually takes.

 

[donjohnston]

I think that's what he said.
Plan A was A&P school.
alternatively,
Plan B was build his own plane instead.

Plan B sounds good, but the big consideration is how long he is willing to commit to a build. I don't think I have ever heard of one start-to-finish in two years or less, although I guess an experienced A&P working on it full time may be able to do that. BWTFDIK? I never built one.

The first two sentences of their post was:

I sat in an rv14 and am considering ordering one. I have plans to go to AP school in August, goal to become IA to work on and sign off my own plane.

There is absolutely no mention of a "Plan A" or "Plan B". Only that they plan to go to AP school and "become an IA to work on and sign off my own plane". There is no requirement to be an A&P or IA to build and sign off a plane you built.

I know a couple people who have built planes in less than two years while working full time jobs. To be fair, in both cases it was the second plane they built. I don't think being an A&P would help that much on a first build.

 

[4RNB]

Big picture goal is to work on and sign off my own plane.

Thinking I would not fit in home built my plan is for school.

Now I think I might fit in an rv14.

 

[TCABM]

Big picture goal is to work on and sign off my own plane.

Thinking I would not fit in home built my plan is for school...

What made/makes you think you would not be able to comfortably fit in an RV?

 

[tsts4]

Big picture goal is to work on and sign off my own plane.

Thinking I would not fit in home built my plan is for school.

Now I think I might fit in an rv14.

Are you retired? That's a lot of effort for very little ROI IMO.

 

[JOhnH]

Well he opened with thinking about ordering an RV-14 so there's that.

The first two sentences of their post was:

I sat in an rv14 and am considering ordering one.

I stand corrected.

But I still think my observation is valid, even if I did overestimate the average time to build a plane. As I said, I never built one, but I have had two hangar neighbors that have. (one of them is working on two planes right now). They seem to spend years and they are both experienced A&Ps.

 

[tsts4]

.... but I have had two hangar neighbors that have. (one of them is working on two planes right now). They seem to spend years and they are both experienced A&Ps.

Building isn't a panacea to get into ownership-- there's a reason we say if you want to fly, buy, if you want to build, build. The 2 years and under builds for most RVs are exceptions to the rule--as I stated most do take 3-4 years on avg. I took 9 myself. It's a daunting proposition and one not to be entered into lightly. There are decisions that can help speed up the build like going quick build (trading money for time) if available, keeping it simple (interiors, paint jobs, avionics, etc), sticking to the plans vs doing a lot of modifications, using builder assist, picking a simpler model if mission allows (eg RV12 vs RV14), etc, etc. But it's a journey that can quickly develop into a slog especially for a first-time builder.

 

[4RNB]

What made/makes you think you would not be able to comfortably fit in an RV?

My body habitus
I am 4’30” in height
I’ve sat in a 10, getting in and out was tough but I am fitter and leaner now

 

[4RNB]

Are you retired? That's a lot of effort for very little ROI IMO.

I disagree. I’ve had gads of issues with getting maintenance performed. Shops are busy and juggle work.

Also, a logical step up from a 172 would be a 200mph capable plane. Buying used and bringing it up to snuff would perhaps take more money and just as long. 182 rg modern gadgets, 300hp kind of plane. Or 200 series, but then the fuel burn might be more noticeable. Build and keep 10gph with more speed.

I visited bushliner this week dreaming of their 185 clone. Despite predictions, they seemed a bit off in the future for production. Great plane on paper.

I am retired. Busy with some things. AP school will be nearly 2 years, drive an hour, class for 6-7hrs, drive an hr home. We have the means to travel and enjoy life, my wife will resent school a bit. If I build, I can leave and travel and otherwise not upset current life balance.

As I read some builder stories online, I tear up reading the trials, tribulations, lessons, and accomplishments. I really dig aiming for the impossible and going farther.

 

[4RNB]

I stand corrected.

But I still think my observation is valid, even if I did overestimate the average time to build a plane. As I said, I never built one, but I have had two hangar neighbors that have. (one of them is working on two planes right now). They seem to spend years and they are both experienced A&Ps.

I spent years shopping for my first plane, would need to spend years shopping for next one, years even to order new.

 

[4RNB]

Building isn't a panacea to get into ownership-- there's a reason we say if you want to fly, buy, if you want to build, build. The 2 years and under builds for most RVs are exceptions to the rule--as I stated most do take 3-4 years on avg. I took 9 myself. It's a daunting proposition and one not to be entered into lightly. There are decisions that can help speed up the build like going quick build (trading money for time) if available, keeping it simple (interiors, paint jobs, avionics, etc), sticking to the plans vs doing a lot of modifications, using builder assist, picking a simpler model if mission allows (eg RV12 vs RV14), etc, etc. But it's a journey that can quickly develop into a slog especially for a first-time builder.

Quick build times are way out.

I’d debate ordering all the kits to get in line for a thunderbolt engine in 2026 if lucky. 3yrs they say

I have a plane already.

 

[iamtheari]

I built an RV-14. From ordering the first kit to making the first flight was 38 months. I cheated a bit by ordering the empennage kit back when the lead time was measured in days, early 2018. I was almost never waiting on parts. I built in three locations:

1. My unfinished, walk-out basement was the primary workshop. The temperature was always good and it was very convenient. I could come home from work and, if I had even 15 minutes to kill, I could get something done on the plane. Working a little bit every day is better than putting in infrequent marathon sessions. You don't dread the work and you never lose track of what you wanted to do next. With the entire basement available, I wasn't constrained for space, but I did most of the work in an 18x28 area, which was more than enough. I primed parts in another corner of the basement, mostly for convenience. I had to use a nontoxic primer due to lack of ventilation separate from where I live, but that's not a problem. I also used another part of the basement to store completed wings and whatnot. I could as easily have stored those off-site. I got the empennage and fuselage built and mated, built the canopy, put the plane on landing gear, and mounted the engine in the basement. I also built the wings (with flaps and ailerons) and the tail surfaces (and rigged the elevators and rudder) here. Before I did anything on the plane, I had an electrician add a sub breaker box for me. Then I wired two circuits: A bunch of outlets at countertop height through the space I was going to build and about a half dozen ceiling outlets for overhead fluorescent lights (I'd use LEDs now). I built a pair of "EAA" workbenches. Add a decent air compressor and some cheap shelving and it's a pretty good workspace. I had an old LCD TV and cheap surround sound system that I set up to have music while I built. I looked at some pictures to get the dates right in making this post and reminisced a bit about the good old days of my dog curling up nearby while the sound of the rivet gun lulled her to sleep.

2. One stall of my 3-car garage. I rolled the fuselage (including engine and canopy but without propeller or tail feathers) up the hill and into the garage after about 22 months of building. My garage is "heated" but barely gets above freezing in the depth of winter, so this was not an ideal build location. But there are some critical paths involved and I didn't want to move anything to the airport prematurely. The propeller wouldn't fit through the basement door, so I mounted that and built the spinner in the garage. The cowl can't go on until the propeller is on (unless you want to waste time building some mock-up parts to do these steps backwards), so the garage ended up seeing a lot of fiberglass work. I also started wiring the panel while the plane was in the garage, which was a mistake but not a deal breaker. It just would have been easier to run wires with the area behind the panel open, at a lower height, and parallel to the ground rather than lying on my back on an incline under the panel.

3. A heated hangar at the airport. The move here happened after about 33 months of building. Final assembly consisted of attaching the wings (very easy on the RV-14), re-attaching the tail feathers (removed to get out of the basement a year earlier), wiring and plumbing the wings (lights, autopilot servo, fuel, pitot/AOA), and building the wingtips and some other bits and bobs.

My project was a success in just over 3 years for a variety of reasons. I won't go into them here. But, at the end of the day, building an airplane hinges a lot more on your personality than on the size of your workspace. And the RV-14 is a great plane both to build and to fly.

 

[TCABM]

My body habitus
I am 4’30” in height
I’ve sat in a 10, getting in and out was tough but I am fitter and leaner now

Entry/egress in the -14 is much different than the 10 and I believ you have more room for sear rail positioning, too. If seated/torso height is the challenge, I don’t know much about that, but VAF probably has the answer.

 

[kmacht]

Airplanes can be built anywhere. I know one guy who built a Xenos including the wings in a small 3 story townhouse in the city.

With that said, if you want to finish the plane then build it somewhere where you walk by it every day. Those who actually finish a build rarely are the ones whose project is far from home. You will get way more done by working 15-20 minutes a day when you get a few minutes here or there vs trying to set aside a day every weekend to try and get out to the airport or somewhere else to work on it. I would vote to build it in the garage if you want an good shot at finishing it.

Maybe buy a carport for the car to keep it outside rather than building a dedicated shed for the airplane. A cheap sheet from goodwill to throw over the airplane when you aren’t working on it will take care of any dust or dirt.

 

[Daleandee]

I have a plane already.

That was a key component for me when I built my current plane i.e. I had a plane to fly. I had a mentor and we worked two evenings and mostly every Saturday all day and it was done in 2-1/2 years. The one thing that was drilled into my thinking was that something needed to be done everyday on the plane. If not at the hangar building then studying the plans, ordering bits & pieces, or searching out how other builders approached the particular phase that was being addressed in the current sequence of events.

Once you get into the flow of looking forward & planning ahead you'll make less mistakes that need to be corrected (it happens) and things will go smoother and quicker. Still, as others have said, building takes a love of building. It is very therapeutic and when the project is done you know how many corners were cut (hopefully none).

I don't have RV14 building money but I believe that you have made a great choice ...

 

[4RNB]

I built an RV-14. From ordering the first kit to making the first flight was 38 months. I cheated a bit by ordering the empennage kit back when the lead time was measured in days, early 2018. I was almost never waiting on parts. I built in three locations:

1. My unfinished, walk-out basement was the primary workshop. The temperature was always good and it was very convenient. I could come home from work and, if I had even 15 minutes to kill, I could get something done on the plane. Working a little bit every day is better than putting in infrequent marathon sessions. You don't dread the work and you never lose track of what you wanted to do next. With the entire basement available, I wasn't constrained for space, but I did most of the work in an 18x28 area, which was more than enough. I primed parts in another corner of the basement, mostly for convenience. I had to use a nontoxic primer due to lack of ventilation separate from where I live, but that's not a problem. I also used another part of the basement to store completed wings and whatnot. I could as easily have stored those off-site. I got the empennage and fuselage built and mated, built the canopy, put the plane on landing gear, and mounted the engine in the basement. I also built the wings (with flaps and ailerons) and the tail surfaces (and rigged the elevators and rudder) here. Before I did anything on the plane, I had an electrician add a sub breaker box for me. Then I wired two circuits: A bunch of outlets at countertop height through the space I was going to build and about a half dozen ceiling outlets for overhead fluorescent lights (I'd use LEDs now). I built a pair of "EAA" workbenches. Add a decent air compressor and some cheap shelving and it's a pretty good workspace. I had an old LCD TV and cheap surround sound system that I set up to have music while I built. I looked at some pictures to get the dates right in making this post and reminisced a bit about the good old days of my dog curling up nearby while the sound of the rivet gun lulled her to sleep.

2. One stall of my 3-car garage. I rolled the fuselage (including engine and canopy but without propeller or tail feathers) up the hill and into the garage after about 22 months of building. My garage is "heated" but barely gets above freezing in the depth of winter, so this was not an ideal build location. But there are some critical paths involved and I didn't want to move anything to the airport prematurely. The propeller wouldn't fit through the basement door, so I mounted that and built the spinner in the garage. The cowl can't go on until the propeller is on (unless you want to waste time building some mock-up parts to do these steps backwards), so the garage ended up seeing a lot of fiberglass work. I also started wiring the panel while the plane was in the garage, which was a mistake but not a deal breaker. It just would have been easier to run wires with the area behind the panel open, at a lower height, and parallel to the ground rather than lying on my back on an incline under the panel.

3. A heated hangar at the airport. The move here happened after about 33 months of building. Final assembly consisted of attaching the wings (very easy on the RV-14), re-attaching the tail feathers (removed to get out of the basement a year earlier), wiring and plumbing the wings (lights, autopilot servo, fuel, pitot/AOA), and building the wingtips and some other bits and bobs.

My project was a success in just over 3 years for a variety of reasons. I won't go into them here. But, at the end of the day, building an airplane hinges a lot more on your personality than on the size of your workspace. And the RV-14 is a great plane both to build and to fly.

Where are you (really your rv14) located?

 

[iamtheari]

Where are you (really your rv14) located?

Western ND. I would be happy to show it off if our paths cross somewhere.

 

[4RNB]

Western ND. I would be happy to show it off if our paths cross somewhere.

Thanks.

I just figured out how to find addresses of owners of flying rv14s, will send letters to a bunch begging for a ride.

 

[tsts4]

Thanks.

I just figured out how to find addresses of owners of flying rv14s, will send letters to a bunch begging for a ride.

As I see you are on VAF now, make another post over there asking if anyone has a 14 in NC, SC, Eastern TN or Southern VA that you could come take a look at and pick their brain and reiterate you're thinking about building--most guys I know would then offer you a ride without you even asking.