*How* much for annual?

Jdm said:
Some airframes/engines come into the shop needing to be washed before they can even be inspected properly.
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Small nit. ALL airframes need to be washed per FAR.
 
pfarber said:
Small nit. ALL airframes need to be washed per FAR.
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but it doesn't say the A&P/IA needs to do it. Deliver a clean plane and that should be one less thing they need to do.
 
I have been getting more expensive annuals. Just noted the basic chargers are now at about $1850 for my 1980 Archer2. What got me looking is that the final bills after discrepancies and preventive maintenance are over $5K and averaging more than 6k. My wife reminds me when she sees the bill. Understandably, our older and getting older airplanes need more stuff to keep it flying and in pristine maintenance shape. So while I complain under my breath, it is what it is to keep the dispatch reliability we all covet. I believe my shop to be a good one, it is convenient, and yes, it is in the NY metropolitan area.
 
Most come in already cleaned by the customer. Some however need to be washed before getting started, which was my point.
 
I was unaware of the cleaning requirement, I'm pretty sure none of my IAs ever cleaned the airplane as part of the annual.

But I just looked it up, and sure enough, there it is.

Appendix D to Part 43:

(a) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that inspection, remove or open all necessary inspection plates, access doors, fairing, and cowling. He shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine.
 
RussR said:
Appendix D to Part 43:

(a) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that inspection, remove or open all necessary inspection plates, access doors, fairing, and cowling. "He" shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine.
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I was certain the new mandate at the FAA would have caught and fixed this gross incompetency! As Bob Bulldog Briscoe would say:

 
RussR said:
I was unaware of the cleaning requirement, I'm pretty sure none of my IAs ever cleaned the airplane as part of the annual.
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Yes, I know one IA who adds a “minimum” of 2.5 hours shop labor for this if the airplane shows up filthy dirty.
 
Jdm said:
Yes, I know one IA who adds a “minimum” of 2.5 hours shop labor for this if the airplane shows up filthy dirty.
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I would charge at least that for the annoyance factor. So far I haven't had to however, I've just fired the customers that don't take care of their airplanes. I don't need to deal with those people.
 
I bring my IA a filthy plane. The 2 hours shop labor that embarrasses him to charge me is still less than our local detailers at $350 "to start" :D
 
schmookeeg said:
I bring my IA a filthy plane. The 2 hours shop labor that embarrasses him to charge me is still less than our local detailers at $350 "to start" :D
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Oh you definitely come out ahead!
 
Coinneach said:
My Cherokee 180 is coming up for annual in August and we're trying to get on the A&P's calendar. Our annuals for the past 10 years have cost right around $1000 regardless of who did them. We open and close the airplane and my partners have been much more proactive about maintenance since I bitched them out last year. There are no outstanding squawks or deferred maintenance.

So why are we now being quoted upward of $2000 just to get started and being told that's normal?
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My ‘69 Cherokee came from Sussex (NJ) and the first annual here in south ‘jersey 6 years ago just touched $6,000. Since the last guy to sign the logbooks takes the heat for the sins of others they went thru every AD to ensure it was done. The big ticket items were an AD on the carb, mags were about 20 hours from the last overhaul so I agreed to send them out. The prop was sent out and red tagged. Fortunately they did an engine upgrade from 150Hp to 160 Hp on a Cherokee 140 and sold me the used prop with inspection documents with only 50 hours on it (I got the used prop for $1,800). After that I go back to the same place since they know the airplane and annuals never top $1,500. Sometimes $850. However APIA’s are rapidly disappearing in my area and the wait for an annual can be a few weeks to a few months due to the increase in business. Cost is what was stated as “the new normal” and so has down time increased.
 
Go price insurance, a hangar, and supplies and you will wonder how a person could feed himself on a $1,200 fixed rate annual. The good ol’ days are gone….

Not to mention most cheap annuals barely consist of a true annual.
 
There are also folks feel the Annual was not “ right” unless they spend some often needless money. Then the following year don’t want to spend it on needed items.

in USAF we would do things like “adjusted the tension on the
“Exceptional Release” to placate some pilots.
 
Rcmutz said:
My fixed annual this past Feb for my Tiger was $900. But of course, I live in flyover country versus the coasts.
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My annual for my tiger went from $400 to $450 this last year, "owner assist at my hangar". This IA/AMP has done it for the last 7 years. He works at a local flight school for his regular gig.
 
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Lots of variables go into the expected cost of a basic inspection. How well does the shop know your plane? Do they know your plane type well? Are you in a busy or competitive metro market, or a more sleepy rural airport? How many hours on the engine/airframe, etc.? My annuals have been running around $800 for the basic inspection, plus whatever it takes to bring it back up to my standards. There is always something unscheduled...fuel drains, gaskets, cracked wheel pants, ADs and SBs, etc. Average total cost each year is around $1,500, not including any avionics repairs/maintenance/upgrades. But my plane is very familiar to 1 of 2 non-metro shops in my area, the engine is relatively new, the vacuum system is gone, and proactive maintenance throughout the year keeps things from getting out of hand by annual time. It's a lot cheaper if the shop is not learning your type on your nickel, or has to go through all the AD compliance again to satisfy their standard of care. It pays to stick to 1-2 shops that work on your plane regularly, so they can trust the past paperwork. If your plane is a new acquisition, then there is often a bunch of deferred maintenance left to you by the previous owner that has to get rectified in the first few years of ownership to bring it to your personal standards, and those annuals can be eye-opening.

Personally, I'm not looking for the cheapest annual possible. I'm looking for an annual that rectifies all issues to my standards of flight safety. I don't want to be nickel-and-dimed to death, but I don't want to skimp on little stuff that might accumulate to the point of a safety of flight issue either. Finding a good balance of care and cost control with your shop is the key. Ultimately, the annual inspection itself is is a small fraction of my annual operational expense.
 
Whitney said:
Who here gets worried when their annual is cheap?

I welcome a more expensive annual, where they seem to be seeking out, and repairing problems, instead of just complacency. A $1,000 annual would have me concerned about their quality and care. It should be more than check the tire pressures, dump some fresh oil in it, and kick it out the door.
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So you would be comfortable with a $2000 "pencil whip" ? (assuming you are not there to insure they are thorough)
 
The annual inspection on my airplane usually runs about $350. I do all the work, and fix all the discrepancies. This past annual was closer to $3k, but I had two cylinders overhauled.
 
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