How much airplane can you get for $1,000 monthly budget?

chemgeek said:
Like you, I rarely miss the first turnout on landing, which is around 1500-1700 feet. You can stop and AA-5 pretty short, even with the puny brakes they have. On a hot day, ground roll on takeoff eats of most of that 1500-1700 feet fully loaded.
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I've taken off fully loaded on warm days too and never hit my abort point (2/3 Vr before 1/2 runway). But then again, I didn't have any significant obstacles off the departure ends. And the headwinds were pretty reliable. So, I'd say there's a bit more to the decision-making than just the runway being 2000ft.
 
I think 1000 a month is actually do-able. Here's my budget for the C172 I just bought. It's an older G model but has a 450 hour engine in it so should last me as long as I need for the future! I think my saving grace is my tie downs. I know some say it is a death sentence for a plane, but I will keep a good coat of wax on it and hopefully move to a hangar sometime soon.

Loan payment: 220
Tie Downs: 25
Insurance: 45
Maintenance: $25/hr
Fuel: $35/hr (auto gas STC is a plus!)

Do as much work as you can yourself and keep the initial purchase price low and you will be fine.
 
I always followed the advice to never borrow money anything but your house. Save until you can pay cash.
 
ejensen said:
I always followed the advice to never borrow money anything but your house. Save until you can pay cash.
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It's a good philosophy, but if you're properly disciplined, with interest rates this low, there's no harm in using a loan to avoid missing a good opportunity.
 
benyflyguy said:
How many hours a year do you plan on flying? For a 1000/month you could join a nice club. That helps offset the costs of problems plus will get you in a bigger plane for your buck.
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That budget gets you TONS of plane in an equity flight club - you could fly our 172 for around 150 hours per year on that budget. You could do even better with some of the other airframes mentioned here.
 
ejensen said:
I always followed the advice to never borrow money anything but your house. Save until you can pay cash.
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I've paid cash for 2 new cars in the past. Lost at least half of my money in just months. Nothing wrong with borrowing if it makes sense financially.
 
Salty said:
It's a good philosophy, but if you're properly disciplined, with interest rates this low, there's no harm in using a loan to avoid missing a good opportunity.
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True but you'll see it build fast if you aren't paying interest. Unless you're looking for something really unique there'll be another. We have not had a loan since we paid off the 15 year mortgage on our last house. What are aircraft loans running today?
 
easik said:
I've paid cash for 2 new cars in the past. Lost at least half of my money in just months. Nothing wrong with borrowing if it makes sense financially.
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Well for starters we never buy a new car because of this. Not sure borrowing ever makes sense unless the selection is so bad you can't wait. And I'm talking personal toys not things needed to work.
 
My Cherokee 140- Monthly

$335-Note
$90- Group Hangar (There's only a C-150 with an Aztec in there)
$36- Insurance
$8- for a 2 year Transponder Check
Variable Cost
- Annual- UNK (Due 4/2019)
- Fuel- $762 (Flew 22 hours last month at 7.7 gallons per/hr ~$4.50 a gallon.)
- MX is TBD. Pay as I go

Total monthly cost for May
$1231.00
 
Mooney Fan said:
My Cherokee 140- Monthly

$335-Note
$90- Group Hangar (There's only a C-150 with an Aztec in there)
$36- Insurance
$8- for a 2 year Transponder Check
Variable Cost
- Annual- UNK (Due 4/2019)
- Fuel- $762 (Flew 22 hours last month at 7.7 gallons per/hr ~$4.50 a gallon.)
- MX is TBD. Pay as I go

Total monthly cost for May
$1231.00
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22 hours. That's a lot. What kind of flights and flying? I'm trying to get mine up that high. :D
 
Mooney Fan said:
My Cherokee 140- Monthly

$335-Note
$90- Group Hangar (There's only a C-150 with an Aztec in there)
$36- Insurance
$8- for a 2 year Transponder Check
Variable Cost
- Annual- UNK (Due 4/2019)
- Fuel- $762 (Flew 22 hours last month at 7.7 gallons per/hr ~$4.50 a gallon.)
- MX is TBD. Pay as I go

Total monthly cost for May
$1231.00
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Thanks for sharing.
What is your interest rate on the loan? if you don't mind sharing. I recently had a quote @ 6.5% and I thought that was a high.
Love the Group hangar idea. how did you come about that? did you know the other owners before hand?
You're living the life @ 22 hours in a month. I'll probably be doing about half that.
 
BrianNC said:
22 hours. That's a lot. What kind of flights and flying? I'm trying to get mine up that high. :D
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I do plenty of training flights. T&Go's at different fields in Tennessee. (5) hrs was the ferry flight from Minneapolis to Tennessee, so more like 17 hours of just boring holes in the sky. I just take off an go.
 
easik said:
Thanks for sharing.
What is your interest rate on the loan? if you don't mind sharing. I recently had a quote @ 6.5% and I thought that was a high.
Love the Group hangar idea. how did you come about that? did you know the other owners before hand?
You're living the life @ 22 hours in a month. I'll probably be doing about half that.
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I took out a secured loan against my 2012 Ford F-250 Super Duty through USAA. 6.2% fixed. I was approved through AOPA but wanted to avoid the 20% down so went the other route
As for the hangar, I was in a shade port 45 miles form home. Starlings were doing a number on my plane. I am on waiting list for at least 8 airfields within a 70 mile radius of my house. Was able to find the group hangar, albeit 1/hr and 20 minutes away, but she is indoors while I wait on something to come up closer to home
 
James331 said:
I've trained people from the ground up in AA1s, if you're flying from airport to airport it's really not very noticeable.

Also getting a nicer smaller plane if much better than getting involved in partners or trying to find a less nice larger plane for the same price.
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I've been reading more on the Grumman since suggested. My initial concern about the Vso on the first series AA1s (57kts) seem to have been reduced in the later models. Great! But from what I've read, the AA1s till tend to have higher stall/spin rates, also something about the fuel system having issues which leads to a dead engine. Care to speak on that please? thanks.
 
easik said:
I've been reading more on the Grumman since suggested. My initial concern about the Vso on the first series AA1s (57kts) seem to have been reduced in the later models. Great! But from what I've read, the AA1s till tend to have higher stall/spin rates, also something about the fuel system having issues which leads to a dead engine. Care to speak on that please? thanks.
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I’ve flown a Yankee. They’re not a big deal, but you don’t fly them low and slow.

The stall was pronounced and you lost significant altitude in the recovery but it wasn’t misbehaved or have a tendency to drop a wing if your feet weren’t completely disconnected from your brain at birth.

If they were and you can’t read an ASI and fly speeds reasonably well, I suppose one would bite a bit harder than most docile trainers. But it’s mostly a “so don’t do that” sort of thing.
 
ejensen said:
True but you'll see it build fast if you aren't paying interest. Unless you're looking for something really unique there'll be another. We have not had a loan since we paid off the 15 year mortgage on our last house. What are aircraft loans running today?
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Worst case, if your credit is good you can get a 3 year $50k unsecured loan from LightStream at 4.29%

It’s not just missing a deal, it’s having 3 years flying. In 3 years, you may not qualify for a medical anymore. Opportunity costs.
 
easik said:
I've been reading more on the Grumman since suggested. My initial concern about the Vso on the first series AA1s (57kts) seem to have been reduced in the later models. Great! But from what I've read, the AA1s till tend to have higher stall/spin rates, also something about the fuel system having issues which leads to a dead engine. Care to speak on that please? thanks.
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The stalls and spins are zero issue if you have proper fundamental training. Worse case go up with a good CFI and do some falling leaf stalls.

As to the fuel, if you spin it, due to the fuel being in the wing spars, it kinda goes to the tips like a centrifuge, but again, see my first point.
On the other side the fuel system is super simple and the sight gauges are very simple and quite fool proof.

Only issue I had noticed, and it wasn't enough of a issue to actually do anything about, they can get a little hot in climb without the oil cooler.
 
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ejensen said:
I always followed the advice to never borrow money anything but your house. Save until you can pay cash.
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And not fly for how long? Meh..... I'm not gonna wait till I can pay cash.....I'll be dead. I'd rather waste my money now when I can.

I liken this advice to the stories about lottery winners who die a month later. I'll enjoy life today, thank you.
 
The other thing to know about an AA1 is that they’re absolute dogs at high altitude airports.

They like to go fast-ish, they don’t like to climb.

The reason I’ve flown one is I almost bought one many years ago. It was such a dog climbing out in Ohio that I opted not to bring it home to Colorado.

It never felt like it was completely underpowered down there, but the climb angle was really shallow and that would have translated to general malaise and badness at an airport near 6000’ MSL with more than one person on board.
 
easik said:
I've paid cash for 2 new cars in the past. Lost at least half of my money in just months. Nothing wrong with borrowing if it makes sense financially.
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A smart man once told me to *ALWAYS* spend other people’s money. ;)

I just bought a C150 and it’s gotta be one of the least expensive ways to fly a certificated all metal airplane there is. Auto gas STC really helps keep the budget low with fuel efficient engines, too. Ok, it’s not fast, or roomy, but it’s mine. All mine. Insurance is cheap, maint will be done primarily as A&P/IA supervised owner (me) maint, etc. I can’t imagine this route coming near 1/2 the OP’s budget. Depends on how/why/what you really want to fly. Where there’s a desire comes an answer.
 
There have been quite a few AA1's upgraded to O-320's which solves the climb issues. That does reduce the endurance and I don't know if the STC's give you a gross weight increase to offset the bigger engine.
 
Salty said:
Worst case, if your credit is good you can get a 3 year $50k unsecured loan from LightStream at 4.29%

It’s not just missing a deal, it’s having 3 years flying. In 3 years, you may not qualify for a medical anymore. Opportunity costs.
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I’m 48. I spent the first 20 years of my adult life building up debt (cars, houses, etc) and the last 10 years paying down debt. Almost done. I can’t ever argue with the logic of borrowing, but I do know that I much prefer my present situation. While I wish I’d focused on it from the start, I don’t think there is any way I could have convinced my younger self. Also, I’ve found there is a certain fiscal discipline that accompanied my present approach that was missing in my earlier years. While one can, in theory, by a responsible borrower, there is a whole industry making money off the fact that this is generally not true on average.
 
Sam D said:
I’m 48. I spent the first 20 years of my adult life building up debt (cars, houses, etc) and the last 10 years paying down debt. Almost done. I can’t ever argue with the logic of borrowing, but I do know that I much prefer my present situation. While I wish I’d focused on it from the start, I don’t think there is any way I could have convinced my younger self. Also, I’ve found there is a certain fiscal discipline that accompanied my present approach that was missing in my earlier years. While one can, in theory, by a responsible borrower, there is a whole industry making money off the fact that this is generally not true on average.
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As I said on my first post, you have to be properly disciplined when borrowing.
 
I think you already know this, but there’s no such thing as a normal financial month when you own a plane. The expenses will be all over the map depending on how much you fly and what breaks.

I fly an old Cherokee 180. Great plane for a first-time owner. Simple, affordable and reasonably capable. But even without a note, I average at least $1,000/month over the course of a year, including costs like hangar, insurance and annual. Some months are virtually nothing if there’s a lot of bad weather and I can’t fly. Occasionally (rarely) there’s a $3,000 month when something breaks.

And you’ve got to be completely prepared for the very real possibility of a $20,000 (or more) month when your engine has to be overhauled.

If I were you, it’s that $20,000 month I’d be concerned with. If you wouldn’t be happy writing that check, it’s better to rent. Seriously.
 
easik said:
Thanks. Very tempting but 2200 HRS on the engine make it less attractive.
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Find out how many hours it has had in the last 5 years or so. If it is being flown a lot, the real TBO on the engine should be 3000 hours - just check closely on the compression and any cylinders.
 
Sam D said:
I’m 48. I spent the first 20 years of my adult life building up debt (cars, houses, etc) and the last 10 years paying down debt. Almost done. I can’t ever argue with the logic of borrowing, but I do know that I much prefer my present situation. While I wish I’d focused on it from the start, I don’t think there is any way I could have convinced my younger self. Also, I’ve found there is a certain fiscal discipline that accompanied my present approach that was missing in my earlier years. While one can, in theory, by a responsible borrower, there is a whole industry making money off the fact that this is generally not true on average.
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Keep going on the debt free life thing. It’s well worth getting up in the morning and owing nobody anything, other than the property taxes to the county once a year.

We were once saddled with over $30,000 in credit card debt, a mortgage, student loan debt from my wife, and two car payments. Now we own everything we have outright.

The biggest excuse you hear from people is that they “want to live” and “don’t want to sacrifice” for about two to four years to change their lives forever. Once you figure it out, it’s not sacrifice, it’s “living well below your means”.

Why anyone calls indentured servitude to pay for things “a life”, I’ll never figure out, now that we don’t do it. It’s just modern slavery and buying stuff at the company store.
 
denverpilot said:
Keep going on the debt free life thing. It’s well worth getting up in the morning and owing nobody anything, other than the property taxes to the county once a year.

We were once saddled with over $30,000 in credit card debt, a mortgage, student loan debt from my wife, and two car payments. Now we own everything we have outright.

The biggest excuse you hear from people is that they “want to live” and “don’t want to sacrifice” for about two to four years to change their lives forever. Once you figure it out, it’s not sacrifice, it’s “living well below your means”.

Why anyone calls indentured servitude to pay for things “a life”, I’ll never figure out, now that we don’t do it. It’s just modern slavery and buying stuff at the company store.
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Yep, amazing isn't it. Luckily we avoided the credit card pit. Have'm but pay off every month. 2% back and a 30 day float.
 
I owe I owe so off to work I go.
The basis of the US economy.

Tim

Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk
 
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