How many hours did it take for your high performance?

I did my BFR and high performance endorsement together. I believe 1.5 hours total.
 
The goal is the get them signed off in the 182, not just specifically HP...right?

I did my PPL in our 182. I would attribute about 4..5 of my newbie hours towards really getting good the HP part. Nothing drilled it in better than endless laps working up to solo. The CFI always made me adjust MP and prop throughout the end of climb, downwind and easing back to full forward at non governed RPM as we neared the turn to final. Some just fly the entire pattern prop full forward but his approach really burned in the order of things which made longer letdowns just feel intuitive.

But there's still more.

The cowl flaps come as part of the 182 signoff. Pretty easy to use but extreme hot or cold add some unique POH cases.

Speaking of cold, if it's a carb'd 182 I sure as hell would want some dedicated / competent CFI time on some carb ice instruction. In a 182 it's just a matter of when.

I've only ever flown a 182 and there are times it sure feels nose heavy to me. I would think at least 1hr of landinds to get used to the nose heavy part. And yes, proper elevator takes of that but then you're learning how much elevator trim is needed.

I'm guessing most figure out the heavy rudder on takeoff.

Another item is takeoff stalls (power on). In winter I felt like we had deck angles well over 60deg to get it to finally buck. Or try holding it level at full power full elevator up trim...wow.

I would think coming from a 172 you would want 1-2hrs of pattern, 1-2hrs of stalls and flying way out of trim. Another 1 or 2 hrs of 40deg flap landings, cowl flap usage, carb ice instruction, etc. So maybe 4-5 hrs dual and then 2hrs solo. If you've already have lots of hours in other planes, HP, complex then probably just 1hr or so.
 
ZeroPapaGolf said:
Ten hours seems ludicrous. That's 2/3 of the formal instruction required for an instrument rating! More than most need to get a multi-engine rating. Just to learn a blue knob and right rudder?
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There’s a little more to it for a low-time PPL coming out of 172’s, unless the club likes replacing firewalls on a regular basis...
 
'Bout an hour for me in a 182 coming from a 172. One more knob, and a cowl flap lever as far as systems go. Flies pretty much the same as a 172. It's a little more nose heavy, requires more right rudder on takeoff and use of the trim wheel. I can't see any reason at all to require 10 hours to become familiar with that. 5 seems more reasonable, but a competent pilot shouldn't really need that much time in my opinion. It aint rocket surgery, it's one of the simplest airplanes in all existence.

I think I had maybe 70 hrs when I made the transition. It was easy peasy, even for a newbie.
 
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korben88 said:
I'm just wondering how many hours of training is typical to get a high performance add on.

The flying club is buying a 182, and needs to amend the bylaws.
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When I got mine, IIRC, I think the requirement where I rented was 5 hours. But that was also for complex.
 
Hypothetically speaking, would it be possible to get the checkout and hours required if I was to assist in the ferry back to home base? Provided of course the airplane buy was sufficiently far away?

:D

Korben will know what I’m going on about!
 
I don't understand all these comments about needing to spend time learning to use more right rudder in a 182. Who taught these people to fly? The rudder technique used in a 182 is EXACTLY the same as a 172 or a 150 or a warrior or a J3 or virtually any other light piston aircraft. You use as much as required to center the ball at that particular power setting and flight attitude. Period. You either know how to fly or you don't. Someone checking out in a 182 should realistically spend about 5 seconds plus or minus 4 seconds thinking about doing anything different with rudder than they do in any other aircraft. My opinion only.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
I don't understand all these comments about needing to spend time learning to use more right rudder in a 182. Who taught these people to fly? The rudder technique used in a 182 is EXACTLY the same as a 172 or a 150 or a warrior or a J3 or virtually any other light piston aircraft. You use as much as required to center the ball at that particular power setting and flight attitude. Period. You either know how to fly or you don't. Someone checking out in a 182 should realistically spend about 5 seconds plus or minus 4 seconds thinking about doing anything different with rudder than they do in any other aircraft. My opinion only.
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You should know how to user rudder and trim but lots of pilots don’t know how. You can fly my Cherokee without touching the trim or rudder pedals and it files just fine. You have to pay attention to rudder on takeoff and trim like crazy on final in the 182. And you need to manage engine temperatures with the cowl flaps. When we bought the 210 I thought that it was easier to fly than the 182. Controls are a bit heavier on the ground but easier in the air. I already knew how to handle the rudder and prop on takeoff and it needs way less trim on final.
 
Not very much, really. When I bought my -235, I didn't have one; I brought my CFI with me to Long Beach to help check out the plane and fly it back with me if there were no surprises. That flight (which included one fuel stop landing in Corona) from LGB to Tucson was more than enough.

You asked about HP; if you're also including complex, then a little more -- just mentioning since they often go together, though not always (and not in my case).
 
Juliet Hotel said:
I don't understand all these comments about needing to spend time learning to use more right rudder in a 182. Who taught these people to fly? The rudder technique used in a 182 is EXACTLY the same as a 172 or a 150 or a warrior or a J3 or virtually any other light piston aircraft. You use as much as required to center the ball at that particular power setting and flight attitude. Period. You either know how to fly or you don't. Someone checking out in a 182 should realistically spend about 5 seconds plus or minus 4 seconds thinking about doing anything different with rudder than they do in any other aircraft. My opinion only.
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And a very good opinion...
 
I got my HP while doing a mountain trip with a bunch of dudes and 182s. So fun. At the end of it we all had a lot of experience in mountains and got a mountain checkout and HP checkout.

That said, 5 hours should be plenty for even the most dense pilots. Use of blue knob and rudder trim and working new Vspeeds ain’t that hard.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
I don't understand all these comments about needing to spend time learning to use more right rudder in a 182. Who taught these people to fly? The rudder technique used in a 182 is EXACTLY the same as a 172 or a 150 or a warrior or a J3 or virtually any other light piston aircraft. You use as much as required to center the ball at that particular power setting and flight attitude. Period. You either know how to fly or you don't. Someone checking out in a 182 should realistically spend about 5 seconds plus or minus 4 seconds thinking about doing anything different with rudder than they do in any other aircraft. My opinion only.
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I mostly agree with you. It’s the same thing around the mystique of flying a Mooney. It’s absolutely no different, you just need to know how to fly a plane and you’ll be fine. If you have bad technique to begin with, you’ll be in trouble.

Most of the time requirements for complex/hp these days are insurance driven, it appears.
 
JScarry said:
You should know how to user rudder and trim but lots of pilots don’t know how.
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Fair enough. But if that's the case then the pilot in question has no business monkeying about with a 182. Instead they should find a good CFI (not a jetboy wannabe time builder) and fly to snot out of something like a Cub or a Bird Dog until they understand how the feet are supposed to be used when flying. Again, my opinion only.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Fair enough. But if that's the case then the pilot in question has no business monkeying about with a 182. Instead they should find a good CFI (not a jetboy wannabe time builder) and fly to snot out of something like a Cub or a Bird Dog until they understand how the feet are supposed to be used when flying. Again, my opinion only.
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I used to have a chief pilot whose previous employer paid for him to get a bunch of tailwheel time exactly for that reason...but since he just didn’t think it was important enough to be worth the effort, he still sucked at crosswind landings.

As did several other pilots in the department. And the $19k direct repair cost wasn’t seen as a problem, either.
 
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Use the insurance or FAA requirements, why would you use anything else?
 
MauleSkinner said:
I used to have a chief pilot whose previous employer paid for him to get a bunch of tailwheel time exactly for that reason...but since he just didn’t think it was important enough to be worth the effort, he still sucked at crosswind landings.

As did several other pilots in the department. And the $19k direct repair cost wasn’t seen as a problem, either.
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If someone doesn’t care no amount of training will change the outcome. It will be bent metal.
 
Ravioli said:
I would suggest you write the club rules something like:
1) High Performance Endorsement
2) X hours in make and model or Y hours dual

The insurance company should dictate X and Y.

Time required for the endorsement is between the pilot and the CFI.
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This what I've seen for lots bigger or more complex singles and twins at places for rent.

Example....Want to rent a Lance or cherokee six, have 500 hrs tt, 50hr make and model, or 100hrs tt and 10 hrs dual.

For the club you can do something like this and also make it so students can only receive dual in it or maybe not flyby at all until they have private. That may help with insurance rates.
 
The 10 hour insurance rule is so ubiquitous that I'd be surprised if you can negotiate for something lower for a club. I'd think the 777 qualified guy could get signed off for that, though :)

The one that's driving me nuts is my club insurance-driven 10 hour requirement for complex checkout. I have a couple hundred 182 hours, so the 182RG is a tiny transition. Trying to combine it with with as much instrument instruction or IMC experience as possible.
 
1.1 here. Bonanza with I0-520 I had just purchased. I had a little arrow (not HP) time prior. Under 100hr pilot at time. HP isn’t a big deal. Just more rudder.

If still required, use that time towards IR cert while still logging required time.
 
I received my HP endorsement with a Make/Model checkout in a C182. It was a 1 hr flight. I suppose some members had to have more training before a club CFI would sign them off, but I don't recall any. 10 hrs, let alone anything above and beyond sounds ridiculous to me...
 
DanWilkins said:
Please keep in mind that someone can have a high performance endorsement and no experience with a constant speed prop.
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Unfortunately everything that's been discussed here has been things not necessarily associated with engines over 200 hp...blue knob, cowl flaps, and working harder on the rudder pedals can be associated with airplanes 200hp or less, and can very easily be absent on high performance airplanes.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Unfortunately everything that's been discussed here has been things not necessarily associated with engines over 200 hp...blue knob, cowl flaps, and working harder on the rudder pedals can be associated with airplanes 200hp or less, and can very easily be absent on high performance airplanes.
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So true.

I use far more right rudder on takeoff in a cub than I do in the 600 hp T6.
 
IIRC, there was no minimum for the HP endorsement to fly our club's C-182. 3 hours did the trick. If you are already used to a 180 hp C-172 it's really just a matter of realizing that the 182 is a heavy 172 with two extra controls (prop and cowl flaps). Too many years ago, but I recall learning and demonstrating a no flaps landing (hey, we've got over 5000 feet of runway at KOLM), learning about the prop speed control and the cowl flaps. I was also working on my complex endorsement in the club's Arrow at the time. We had insurance requirements that said you had to have 5 hours dual and at least 100 hour TT to solo the Arrow (if you didn't already have enough time in type) and I hit both at the same time by dumb luck. Got the complex endorsement, then the HP endorsement a few days later.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Unfortunately everything that's been discussed here has been things not necessarily associated with engines over 200 hp...blue knob, cowl flaps, and working harder on the rudder pedals can be associated with airplanes 200hp or less, and can very easily be absent on high performance airplanes.
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Tru dat! I flew an old squaretail 172 that had an MP gage and tach. Took me by surprise. But that 6-cyl Continental sure was smooth . . . .
 
My HP transition was from a Cherokee 140 to a Skylane T182T.

This was accomplished quickly since it seemed to me an actual relief having more horsepower with the Cessna.
 
I don’t recall... But I do know it was back in the day when it was combined with complex. Did one, you got both.
 
I bought a Hawk XP on floats before I finished my private. Got the private in a rented 150-150 and got into the XP to start the HP and SES the same day. The HP thing was simple. Managing the prop and cowl flaps wasn’t difficult but don’t let anyone fool you, nobody is good at it in an hour or two. Insurance required 15 hours of instruction for the float plane. That was a fun time.
 
It took me about 10 minutes to learn the prop stuff and a heck of lot more to land the 182. It isn't landing a 172. Nose heavy.
 
Stewartb said:
I bought a Hawk XP on floats before I finished my private. Got the private in a rented 150-150 and got into the XP to start the HP and SES the same day. The HP thing was simple. Managing the prop and cowl flaps wasn’t difficult but don’t let anyone fool you, nobody is good at it in an hour or two. Insurance required 15 hours of instruction for the float plane. That was a fun time.
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Must have had the 210 HP version. I’ve got a couple of hours in a 172XP on amphibs with the isham conversion. Good plane.
 
BrianNC said:
A lot of FBOs require 10 hours for complex checkout due to insurance requirements. That seems to be pretty normal. For high performance I can't see any more than about 3 hours. Going from a 172 to a 182 was nothing. Other than now you had a prop control too.
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Yep, some of those 3 hours were addressing the subtle, and not so subtle differences between H/P and a lessor powered A/C. For instance with the modern C-182, starting with idle cut-off, once she fires, ease in the mixture. That was new to me.
 
Mooney Fan said:
differences between H/P and a lessor powered A/C. For instance with the modern C-182, starting with idle cut-off, once she fires, ease in the mixture. That was new to me.
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That has nothing to do with the amount of power, but because it's fuel injected.
 
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