how long to complete an annual inspection for C182

bobthecatmechanic

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bobthecatmechanic
ran across an old thread about "how long to complete an annual inspection for C182" but since the thread was over 1 year old it will not let me reply to post. so I would like to open up the dragon, again.
 
About 18hrs labor, plus whatever time is required for any squawks found.
 
Fixed gear? An inspection for a 182 shouldn't take that long. Of course, a lot of depends on things like:

How up to date is the log book records (if the same mechanic did the annual last year, he probably will spend less time looking up AD compliance if his own signature is on everything)?

How much maintenance was deferred to the annual. We tend to do a lot of stuff (oil changes, wheel bearing repack, AD compliance, ELT tests) at annuals that aren't part of the annual.

What did the inspection find wrong? Fixing things is not part of the annual, just required before the aircraft can be returned to service.

I got the annual on my Navion done in four hours one day, but I had disassembled all the inspection panels, decowled, removed the necessary interior parts, got the jacks in place, etc... All the IA needed to do is put his eyes on things. He did paperwork while I plied him with Pizza and cokes.
 
I got the annual on my Navion done in four hours one day, but I had disassembled all the inspection panels, decowled, removed the necessary interior parts, got the jacks in place, etc...

Yep, that's the key. Owner-assist is the way to go if possible. It's silly to pay A&P-IA rates to do simple things like remove panels and pull out seats and floorboards. My lower cowling is a 2-person job to remove because some of the hose clamps aren't accessible until the cowling is moved a few inches, but even for that I had all the screws except two removed, so it only took the two of us a couple of minutes to pull it off.

You can also do all the AD and logbook searches ahead of time and have the papers ready for him to review.
 
how long to complete an annual inspection for C182
In general, I would plan on 16 hrs if one is complying with all the disassembly/reassembly/clean/research. Sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. If following the Cessna program usually a little more. Regardless, there can be a number of variables with specific planes/owners that can also affect the time frame.
 
Three FAA Inspectors came into a shop back 35 years ago with an owner and asked that same question: "How long should it take to do an Annual on this plane?"

The experienced mechanic had the correct answer: "That decision is made by the person responsible for the aircraft's airworthiness."

"FAR 91.403
(a) The owner or operator of an aircraft is primarily responsible for maintaining that aircraft in an airworthy condition, including compliance with part 39 of this chapter."

The Mechanic went on and explained to the FAA that the owner 'delegated that responsibility to him' when he dropped off the keys, log books and said "do my Annual." It takes however long it takes to do the owner's responsibility. Put the aircraft into an Airworthy Condition.

As Owner/Operator of an aircraft you must know your responsibilities and follow through with them. If you choose not too, then you are relinquishing the responsibility to someone else.

Well, you can either relieve that person of that responsibility or let them finish.
 
Currently just about all my Annuals are done as a Road Warrior on aircraft I

have inspected multiple times previously and Owner Assist with folks I’ve

worked with before. I strongly recommend recommend the use of cell

pix and vids to work efficiency. Nothing frustrates me more than having the

owner show me an issue 5 minutes after I get there. Means another trip

after ordering the part or bringing needed tools. Finding a mag or ?

AD that requires compliance and parts will also mean another trip.

Good Communication helps any project.

Yesterday a pic enabled me to tell someone a Torx and not a Phillips

bit was needed.

The down side of this is getting calls and texts at various times.

They know I respond at my convenient time . That varies with what else

is on the plate. Instant Gratification? Go somewhere else!
 
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Three FAA Inspectors came into a shop back 35 years ago with an owner and asked that same question: "How long should it take to do an Annual on this plane?"

The experienced mechanic had the correct answer: "That decision is made by the person responsible for the aircraft's airworthiness."

"FAR 91.403
(a) The owner or operator of an aircraft is primarily responsible for maintaining that aircraft in an airworthy condition, including compliance with part 39 of this chapter."

The Mechanic went on and explained to the FAA that the owner 'delegated that responsibility to him' when he dropped off the keys, log books and said "do my Annual." It takes however long it takes to do the owner's responsibility. Put the aircraft into an Airworthy Condition.

As Owner/Operator of an aircraft you must know your responsibilities and follow through with them. If you choose not too, then you are relinquishing the responsibility to someone else.

Well, you can either relieve that person of that responsibility or let them finish.

As the owner of an aircraft, they can never relinquish their responsibility of airworthiness to any one else.
 
Appendix D to Part 43—Scope and Detail of a 100hr or annual, that is what is required to be done on a annual. Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine. Very few A&P or IA do the last item, thoroughly clean the aircraft.
 
As the owner of an aircraft, they can never relinquish their responsibility of airworthiness to any one else.
And yet... They do.
When the aircraft is returned to the Owner/Operator they resume responsibility. Ask your friendly FAA Inspector who is responsible for signing off the Annual Conformity Inspection?
Keeping an Aircraft in Airworthy Condition is a team effort.
 
What,
Appendix D to Part 43—Scope and Detail of a 100hr or annual, that is what is required to be done on a annual. Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine. Very few A&P or IA do the last item, thoroughly clean the aircraft.
What! Your AnP doesn’t wash and wax the airplane at the end of the annual for you? Time to find another AnP! ;)
 
16 hours was the number in 2007-2012
18 by late teens
20 hours the last couple years

Fwiw

Probably just going soft in my old age.
 
When the aircraft is returned to the Owner/Operator they resume responsibility.
That's a new one on me. Unfortunately know of a number of owners who would disagree with that assessment as they were held to the Part 91 higher standard by the FAA. Are owners responsible for the mechanics specific work. No. But they are still responsible at the higher level that the required work is performed and signed off to include AD compliance. And so on. While I agree it is a team effort the owner doesn't get a pass on the responsibility side just because he's riding the bench for a bit.
 
....the owner doesn't get a pass on the responsibility side just because he's riding the bench for a bit.


Agreed! And for that reason it’s wise for the owner to stay off the bench and be an active participant.
 
Agreed! And for that reason it’s wise for the owner to stay off the bench and be an active participant.
My old mechanic divided her customers into two groups: aircraft owners who would turn a wrench on their own planes and those were "just pilots." We were doing the annual one year and sitting in the back of the shop eating lunch when a pilot came in and said he thought his battery was getting weak. Bobbi told him to bring it inside and she'd bench test it. He gave her a blank stare. "Oh, I forgot. You're just a pilot. Ron, go help him take his battery out."
 
Yep, that's the key. Owner-assist is the way to go if possible. It's silly to pay A&P-IA rates to do simple things like remove panels and pull out seats and floorboards. My lower cowling is a 2-person job to remove because some of the hose clamps aren't accessible until the cowling is moved a few inches, but even for that I had all the screws except two removed, so it only took the two of us a couple of minutes to pull it off.

You can also do all the AD and logbook searches ahead of time and have the papers ready for him to review.
Our IA has a flat rate inspection fee (based on aircraft type) that includes -

  • 1 hour of AD research (If more than 1 hour is needed it will be extra)
  • Clean, gap, test, rotate spark plugs
  • Pre and Post run up for systems check
  • Compression check
  • Servicing battery
  • Oil and filter change (labor only)
  • Air filter change (labor only)
  • Lubrication and servicing of pulleys, hinges and bell cranks
  • Cleaning, inspection and repacking of wheel bearings
  • Landing gear extension/retraction test if required
  • Mag to engine timing
  • ELT test and inspection per FAR 91.207 (labor only)
  • Inspection of aircraft in accordance with FAR part 43 appendix D
  • Removal and installation of inspection panels and interior as necessary for inspection
Of course any discrepancies found during the inspection that require repair will be billed separate as an extra charge, at the shop rate, plus parts.
 
As the owner of an aircraft, they can never relinquish their responsibility of airworthiness to any one else.
The owner/operator is responsible for airworthiness. The two aren’t necessarily the same person.
 
It depends. Up to my last annual all of mine have been about 10 hrs or so. I guess according to Ron I am a pilot only. Not because I do not want to participate as I love doing that type of stuff but because my job time constraints makes it impossible to be at the shop at normal working hours. My present annual is well into month 2 almost 3 with no end in site. Problem has been supply and demand on an AD concerning turbo exhaust clamps, and two bad jugs, and magneto required inspections. Hour wise it's about 20 or so hours but time wise another story. As for owner responsibility I do agree it is my responsibility to assure my plane is airworthy, but short of doing a thorough inspection of the plane and it's working parts and doing a thorough preflight I have to trust my mechanic to have done his part to acceptable standards for the things I can't see.
 
That's a new one. Care to elaborate?
The IA performs an Annual 'Conformity' Inspection on Type Certified Aircraft and an A&P or Repairman does an Annual 'Condition' Inspection on an Experimental Aircraft. The IA is to confirm that the items on the Certified Aircraft 'Conform' to the TCDS, Airworthiness Directives (A.D.), Manufacture's Parts publication, Manufacturer's maintenance publications (Service Bulletins, Letters, ICAs...etc.) and that previous maintenance was performed per standard practices and procedures.

For example the installed engine model number must be listed on the Type Certificate. If not listed, there needs to be a Form 337 either with a field approval or Supplemental Type Certificate (STC). Another more common example is the tire size and ply rating must be supported by the Parts Manual or some Service Publication. If the tires are not supported by the manufacture or in some cases the TCDS then there needs to be approved data or better an STC. When an IA is "Inspecting" an aircraft they are looking for these kinda discrepancies and other items that do not match the logbooks or "Aircraft Records". The Equipment List should totally reflect the aircraft configuration and the weight and balance should be dated after the last weight change modification.

The IA, A&P and Repairman are doing "Condition Inspections' each year looking for the condition of everything especially wear items. Many of those Squawked items can be discussed with the Owner/Operator for scheduling. Many times the aircraft only flies a couple dozen hours a year and the item is within tolerance but should be changed next year. Like brake linings, disc and tires, they're worn but not so bad that they can't do another 100 landings. So, order replacements for next year and change them then. Many Owners will bring the aircraft back as soon as the parts arrive and pay the shop to change them or just change them themselves.

The first Annual is the toughest for the IA after that they've covered many of the bases for ever Annual that follows.
 
The IA performs an Annual 'Conformity' Inspection on Type Certified Aircraft and an A&P or Repairman does an Annual 'Condition' Inspection on an Experimental Aircraft. The IA is to confirm that the items on the Certified Aircraft 'Conform' to the TCDS, Airworthiness Directives (A.D.), Manufacture's Parts publication, Manufacturer's maintenance publications (Service Bulletins, Letters, ICAs...etc.) and that previous maintenance was performed per standard practices and procedures.

For example the installed engine model number must be listed on the Type Certificate. If not listed, there needs to be a Form 337 either with a field approval or Supplemental Type Certificate (STC). Another more common example is the tire size and ply rating must be supported by the Parts Manual or some Service Publication. If the tires are not supported by the manufacture or in some cases the TCDS then there needs to be approved data or better an STC. When an IA is "Inspecting" an aircraft they are looking for these kinda discrepancies and other items that do not match the logbooks or "Aircraft Records". The Equipment List should totally reflect the aircraft configuration and the weight and balance should be dated after the last weight change modification.

The IA, A&P and Repairman are doing "Condition Inspections' each year looking for the condition of everything especially wear items. Many of those Squawked items can be discussed with the Owner/Operator for scheduling. Many times the aircraft only flies a couple dozen hours a year and the item is within tolerance but should be changed next year. Like brake linings, disc and tires, they're worn but not so bad that they can't do another 100 landings. So, order replacements for next year and change them then. Many Owners will bring the aircraft back as soon as the parts arrive and pay the shop to change them or just change them themselves.

The first Annual is the toughest for the IA after that they've covered many of the bases for ever Annual that follows.

OK Klaus, you're preaching to the choir.

You wrote

And yet... They do.
When the aircraft is returned to the Owner/Operator they resume responsibility. Ask your friendly FAA Inspector who is responsible for signing off the Annual Conformity Inspection?
Keeping an Aircraft in Airworthy Condition is a team effort.

So the question posed to you was what is an "Annual Conformity Inspection" ? Where are you getting that term from?

Furthermore, why would an FAA Inspector (ASI) be signing it off?

Or are you calling a person that holds an A&P/IA a "FAA Inspector"?
 
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OK Klaus, you're preaching to the choir.

You wrote



So the question posed to you was what is an "Annual Conformity Inspection" ? You are lumping two different inspections into one.

Furthermore, why would an FAA Inspector (ASI) be signing it off?

Or are you calling a person that holds an A&P/IA a "FAA Inspector"?
"Ask your FAA Inspector" because there's no regulation directly spelling out the difference between 'Conformity' and 'Condition'. In many IA renewal meetings this difference is brought up and the mechanics want to see the regulation. This argument becomes an issue and some mechanics argue that the Annual isn't where the conformity is done because it takes too much time.

For example should the IA check every A.D. on the 60 year old A.D. list and make sure it's done each year?
 
All the items in red I do myself. As you can see, not a whole lot left for the IA. My total cost comes down proportionally. Additionally, as long as there are no repairs needed, I'm usually AOG 2-3 days max.
Our IA has a flat rate inspection fee (based on aircraft type) that includes -

  • 1 hour of AD research (If more than 1 hour is needed it will be extra) (I've been using the same IA for some time so he knows what AD's are applicable. Haven't had any new ones in some time, but if there were I'd be the first to tell him.)
  • Clean, gap, test, rotate spark plugs
  • Pre and Post run up for systems check
  • Compression check
  • Servicing battery (although there isn't much to do with a sealed Concord)
  • Oil and filter change (labor only)
  • Air filter change (labor only)
  • Lubrication and servicing of pulleys, hinges and bell cranks
  • Cleaning, inspection and repacking of wheel bearings
  • Landing gear extension/retraction test if required
  • Mag to engine timing (I check the timing and if it needs adjustment the IA takes over)
  • ELT test and inspection per FAR 91.207 (labor only)
  • Inspection of aircraft in accordance with FAR part 43 appendix D
  • Removal and installation of inspection panels and interior as necessary for inspection
 
"Ask your FAA Inspector" because there's no regulation directly spelling out the difference between 'Conformity' and 'Condition'. In many IA renewal meetings this difference is brought up and the mechanics want to see the regulation. This argument becomes an issue and some mechanics argue that the Annual isn't where the conformity is done because it takes too much time.

For example should the IA check every A.D. on the 60 year old A.D. list and make sure it's done each year?

Do you actually hold an IA?
 
I love the conformity inspection arguments and all that.

Many STCs have big gaps in the installation data and the installer(s) pull a solution out their ass. That solution may just be "it'll work", "43.13 says", or separate drawing that actually has an FAA approval, or any combination of the three. Were the gaps documented properly in the records? How are you determining conformity if its not?

Just ask this question on 95% of these bug smashers, "where is the current electrical load analysis"
 
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Electrical Load Analysis is often referenced on Form 337 as are other things.

However; the actual data , drawings and schematics are rarely there.

Many “ Old School” 337s did have actual drawings and schematics.

With a STC who is reviewing the final doc? Today it is just sent to OK.

and filed.

At one time I did some Spar Extensions that used .125 alum.

However; the Install Instructions specified .0125. What data do you

conform to?
 
"Ask your FAA Inspector" because there's no regulation directly spelling out the difference between 'Conformity' and 'Condition'.

This argument becomes an issue and some mechanics argue that the Annual isn't where the conformity is done because it takes too much time.
Interesting. It sure seems the FAA in the Pacific NW and the Atlantic NE march to their own beat and terminologies.

The reason there’s no stated difference is because both conformity and condition are required for an annual inspection. Given the annual is an airworthiness inspection the guidance is simply found in the definition of what airworthy means -- the aircraft conforms to its type design and is in a condition for safe operation.

So if the IA doesn’t take the time to conform the aircraft, or at least accept its conformity status, how would he legally sign off the aircraft is airworthy per 43.11? Pretty basic stuff if you ask me unless one is signing off 20 minute annuals.

At one time in the CAA days, only a CAA inspector could sign off the annual inspection because the aircraft was issued a new AWC each year and had to conform to its type design. Thankfully things changed but not when it comes to aircraft conformity requirements.

And as a side note, one of the reasons an experimental classified aircraft only receives a “condition” inspection is because there is no conformity inspection requirement, i.e. not called an annual, along with no IA requirement.

Regardless, the conformity side should be the easiest part as it is objective to the rules and guidance. It’s the condition side that usually gives the most heartburn as it is subjective to individual opinions and beliefs. So following the requirements of Block 6 on a Standard AWC there should be no issues provided the owner/operator followed those requirements…. unfortunately, we all know how that usually turns out. Then the real fun starts by trying to fix those "issues" or to determine a workable solution.....;)

For example should the IA check every A.D. on the 60 year old A.D. list and make sure it's done each year?
Yes. Unless the IA can meet his regulatory requirements without having to physically review the list each annual.

I can’t link at the moment, but would be happy to provide the references if you need them.
 
i agree with Bell that the Conformity portion is likely the easiest but also

the least understood. Finding non-approved engines and props is traumatic

at best. Every Annual and Pre-Buy Survey should start with this. It often

results that there was documentation that somehow disappeared.

There are owners that are clueless regarding 337s and ADs and simply point

to a pile and say “ I think it may be in there”.

So are the cheeseburger wrappers and fuel receipts from 1997!
 
I guess according to Ron I am a pilot only.
Not my classification, my IA's. But she'd consider you a pilot if you were willing (just not able) to work on it. Most years I didn't participate in the annual (other than writing checks), but my wife (who was a school teacher a the time) would go over there and assist the A&Ps on anybody who was ahead of us in line, clean up the shop, whatever, to get us into the shop for our turn.

One thing to be noted. Except for a few ancillary things called out in the Part 43 appendix and/or on the annual checklist, a lot of maintenance normally included in the annual, is not part of the annual. Neither is fixing things. The IA prepares a list of discrepancies and once that is done anybody who is authorized to perform the maintenance can return the aircraft to service.

For instance, the IA can write me up at annual that the tires are shot and sign the books. I can replace the tires myself (owner-pilot preventive maintenance) and sign off the logs as returnable to service.
 
Another reason experimental aircraft have condition inspection requirements is because the aircraft does not have a type design…
 
Appendix D to Part 43—Scope and Detail of a 100hr or annual, that is what is required to be done on a annual. Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine. Very few A&P or IA do the last item, thoroughly clean the aircraft.

From the inspector's perspective "thoroughly clean" means to the extent required to properly conduct the inspection. It is not a cosmetics task although I do go so far as to remove my oily fingerprints from the cowl when I'm done.
 
It takes as long as it takes. If you have a thoroughly dirty aircraft then you pay for it.
 
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