How long do you wait on a shop....?

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libertas

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libertas
Scheduled 2/14: "We will get you in the week of the 14th." Didn't happen.
Last 2 weeks of Feb was waiting for them to "get some room" due to continued issues on a problem twin. Ok fine. I'll be patient.
First week March, couple of guys got covid, and weather was crappy. Ok fine. Stuff happens.
Last week, took in a couple of "time sensitive planes" that needed work. Ummm....ok.

New to the mx game, is this common? If so, how long is reasonable to cut bait and look for another shop. They have never done any work for us on this plane before, so I can see wanting to take care of repeat customers, but I'm not sure how much longer I want to wait.
 
What sort of work are you trying to schedule?
 
Type aircraft?

One of the problems is the Shop can predict hours for the Inspection. Hours and days/ weeks for Repairs is another story.

Some Shops seem to work on the “ last guy in the door”.
 
I would have been slowly ratcheting up the pressure throughout those various responses. Especially when they said “time sensitive” aircraft. Tell them they’re X weeks late on yours, and you’ve become time sensitive.

Unless you have a ton of other options, I’d be nice about it though. No need to burn a bridge unnecessarily.
 
"Time-sensitive airplanes" often implies commercial stuff. Flight school or charter aircraft. Those operations can't afford to have their airplanes down for weeks.

And that leads us to this: To maintain an FAA Repair Station's (in Canada we a call it an Approved Maintenance Organization) status, which is needed to do work on Commercial stuff, takes considerable time and expense and requires aircraft manuals and special equipment and a heated, lighted shop. Shops like that can do a better job on your airplane because they do have the resources, but you can get shunted aside sometimes for the airplanes that are subsidizing all that expensive stuff. A mechanic working out of his car's trunk isn't likely to have it, and often doesn't have a shop to do it in either.

And, of course, the number of mechanics is dwindling. The job carries plenty of liability, and often doesn't pay as well as a shop that maintains Harleys or BMWs. So mechanics and shops are getting rarer, and you see the result.
 
Have you ever had to wait in a doctor's office? Of course, we all have. It's easy to complain that the doctor is taking too long to get to you but when he finally gets there, you no longer care how much time he takes. You want your problem taken care of and it may take more time to get your health issues all ironed out and you want the doctor to be as thorough as can be right? Meanwhile the next guy is sitting on the butcher paper in his underwear and looking at HIS watch every fifteen seconds.

Good shops are always busy and have a lengthy waiting list. I have no doubt that they probably gave you an honest estimate of the date they could get you in. They have to "get some room" as you described above in order to get your bird inside. Not making excuses for the shop but there are several things these days that are out of a shop's control. With parts delays and just finding parts to begin with, it is pretty difficult to get planes in and out on time as promised. A lot of serious issues have been found on aircraft that come in for a simple oil change. No mechanic is his right mind will just turn their head and ignore what they see. I'll bet that there were parts delays on aircraft scheduled long before yours. The two "time sensitive planes" you spoke of are most likely two other guys who scheduled before you that were delayed for other maintenance. Or like Dan states above they could be commercial aircraft or a flight school with a contract with that shop which states their aircraft come before anyone else. Maybe the shop is short-handed and needs to hire a couple of mechanics? In any case, I hope that you get your bird in for it's annual soon. Just be patient and your turn will come around and those mechanics will take all the time they need to find and fix problems that will keep you safe. Their name is on those log books. No mechanic wants to hear that an aircraft went down and killed the owner because of something they did or didn't do.

Just my opinion and it is worth exactly what you paid for it.
 
Having a couple guys go down with C-19 could really put the brakes on most shops.
How are they doing? Making that time up may require overtime. Would you consider having them do yours at “ Time and a half” or “ Double time”?

Shops don’t want to hire new help for a short time and then pay increased Unemployment Insurance Premiums.

Maybe you can work something out where you unzip and they do Inspection only and push you out. After the unobtainable cylinders and oil filters arrive they can bring you back in for servicing and repairs.

This is an unusual time we are in.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Have you ever had to wait in a doctor's office? Of course, we all have. It's easy to complain that the doctor is taking too long to get to you but when he finally gets there, you no longer care how much time he takes. You want your problem taken care of ...
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Pretty good analogy for years past ... when they weren't corporate, they HAD to see patients in volume to make a living and pay off 12-16 years in school. I'm lucky in that I'm in the field and always get a straight shot into a room when I needed to see a doc ... luckily, pretty healthy so last time was for the BasicMED exam ...
 
Our club plane is on one of those reasons a plane like yours can’t get done. Find unanticipated problems, delays, one guy out with COVID, issue with newly installed avionics cause it to go back. Was was supposed to be a couple of weeks turns into 2.5 months and going back this week after another odd AHRS failure. Ugh.
 
libertas said:
Scheduled 2/14: "We will get you in the week of the 14th." Didn't happen.
Last 2 weeks of Feb was waiting for them to "get some room" due to continued issues on a problem twin. Ok fine. I'll be patient.
First week March, couple of guys got covid, and weather was crappy. Ok fine. Stuff happens.
Last week, took in a couple of "time sensitive planes" that needed work. Ummm....ok.

New to the mx game, is this common? If so, how long is reasonable to cut bait and look for another shop. They have never done any work for us on this plane before, so I can see wanting to take care of repeat customers, but I'm not sure how much longer I want to wait.
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Will this be your first annual? If it is maybe whoever did the prebuy could help you do a annual? At my small airport the maintenance shop is always busy and it can't always get to your plane right away.

I hope you can develop a long term relationship and they will plan your annuals into their schedules. Good luck to you.
 
I'm so thankful to have a good relationship with the shop on my home field. They did ask me to delay bringing my plane is for annual by a few days so they could finish up a plane that was AOG. Having been AOG at a distant field for weeks, I'm more than happy to be slightly inconvenienced to get them going.

6 weeks is unreasonable. I assume your plane is out of annual at this point. You are likely stuck for this year, but I'd probably be looking for a different shop next year. Maybe they are truly in a tough spot and it's worth sticking with them, but only you can make that call. It may not be worth burning bridges if they're on your home field.
 
When is your annual due or has it already expired?
If your annual still has time left and the local flight school or commercial operator happened to need a 100 hour, I'd make you wait as well.
If you tried to schedule right as your annual was expiring, I'd tell you that was poor planning on your part.
However, if your annual is expired and they are still pushing you off, I'd make them aware of that.
Also let them know you want an ongoing relationship.
If there is no other shop on your field, I'd ask if they could at least assist with the special flight permit so that you can take it elsewhere.
Preplanning and having available options is important.
 
Cabin class twin, out of annual 2.5 years. Just want to get it sold and the shop knows the story. I get that I’ll be lower on the list, no problem there, but I’d like to get it sold sooner than later. Covid is a wildcard that may be the real culprit here. I don’t want to burn bridges because we will replace the plane and would probably put them into the maintenance resource bucket. They aren’t in the home base, but are very close. Patience is probably in order.
 
libertas said:
New to the mx game, is this common?
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libertas said:
Cabin class twin, out of annual 2.5 years. Just want to get it sold and the shop knows the story.
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Odd combination of factors. Not sure why someone new to the mx game would have a cabin class twin that has been out of annual for 2.5 years. And you are trying to sell it. Did you buy it out of annual with the intent to flip it or did you previously own and fly it and just parked it for the last 2.5 years for some reason? Odd situation.
 
Some owners need to spend a few months working in an aircraft shop. It would teach them a whole lot of things they didn't know. They would learn so much about the pressures from owners, the slander from cheapskates, the impossibility of pleasing everyone.

And they'd learn something about aircraft maintenance, too.
 
I schedule my annuals 6 weeks in advance, at beginning of the month, just in case there’s a delay I can continue to fly.

I’ve been waiting 9 months for a equipment for avionics upgrade.

I miss the good old days.
 
libertas said:
Cabin class twin, out of annual 2.5 years. Just want to get it sold and the shop knows the story. I get that I’ll be lower on the list, no problem there, but I’d like to get it sold sooner than later.
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With that additional information, I can’t fault the shop much. A cabin class twin takes up a fair amount of space in a shop and one that has been out of service for 2.5+ years is almost guaranteed to be sitting in the shop for an extended period of time. Especially with some of the parts challenges we’ve seen lately.

Who knows, finding another shop to do the work might actually make the shop you’re currently waiting on happy.
 
I would kick it to Jerry Temple and do everything he says. Like in many instances, a good broker will bring more than his fee to the table via advice and his niche network.

A rando broker or "that guy in that hangar" is wasted money IMO for a plane in this class.
 
Mine went in for annual in November, just got signed off last week. Shop congestion and waiting for parts took up most of that time.
 
I feel really lucky. Had my last annual back in Dec. and it only took about 2 weeks.:)
 
My plane has been at the shop for its annual for 26 weeks now. Most of that time, no one even came into the shop. I can see the shop from my office. The parts that they are "waiting for" back in January were rivets. I looked at the usual suspects, Aircraft Spruce, Aircraft PartsStore, Fletchiar, etc, they all had the rivets in stock. Told me I could have them within a couple of days. Some of the fine folks on this forum even offered to send me the rivets. Alas, 10 weeks later the mech has the rivets but has not completed the (estimated) 12 hours of work on my plane. My annual expired in November.

Is this what I can expect from future annual inspections? 6+ months?
 
Rich Holt said:
Is this what I can expect from future annual inspections? 6+ months?
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only if you continue to use that shop....

Seriously what's the deal? Is this a part time weekends and evenings shop? My last annual took 6 weeks and they did a LOT of stuff as it was my first one, and from the log entries the first comprehensive one in about 5 years. They constantly apologized for how long it was taking. On top of that, they wanted to get it done so they could make room for the next plane on the list.
 
Rich Holt said:
My plane has been at the shop for its annual for 26 weeks now.......Is this what I can expect from future annual inspections? 6+ months?
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Maybe, in that shop, "annual" means just that. A year.
 
Jim K said:
only if you continue to use that shop....

Seriously what's the deal? Is this a part-time weekends and evenings shop? My last annual took 6 weeks and they did a LOT of stuff as it was my first one, and from the log entries the first comprehensive one in about 5 years. They constantly apologized for how long it was taking. On top of that, they wanted to get it done so they could make room for the next plane on the list.
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I'm not even sure he meets the guidelines to be considered part-time work at this point.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Maybe, in that shop, "annual" means just that. A year.
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Ha. Sometimes that’s what it takes. I’ve done “annuals” that took 1.5 years worth of working 30-35 hours a week on it to straighten the mess out. I’ve got one in the shop now that will probably be an 8 month ordeal. I haven’t been working on that one too much though, we’re waiting on parts.

In the meantime, I’ve gotten a break and had several really easy annuals. At least I have that going for me.
 
I have since heard this is a common issue with this shop, and that they are so busy right now they can't keep up. Good problem for them to have and I glad for them (truly), but I'll probably look elsewhere for now. They do have a good reputation, so it would be silly to write them off, but I'd really like to get this done.

This thread is very enlightening, and slightly concerning. Thanks for all the input.
 
My deal with mx is when a shop says “sure, bring it right in” and then doesn’t even start the work for three weeks. I just had my ifr certs done locally and when I called the guy to schedule he pulled out a calendar and said “I can fit you in on this date”. Obviously this doesn’t work on unplanned mx, but I appreciated the accurate time estimate as opposed to yanking my cajones. My annual two years ago I was told “oh yeah, bring it in, we’re not busy right now “ and they didn’t start on it for a coupl’a weeks cause they “got busy”. ****ed me off. Also I HATE when my plane isn’t nice and safe in the hangar instead of on the ramp, in the rain etc…
 
I’m doing one that’s going on 5 months. It’s by choice. Doing it myself. Basically a refurb. New interior, new elevators, paint work, gear work, engine work, etc. I’m only able to spend a couple afternoons per week on it. It’s a new airplane to us and needs every inch inspected.
You shouldn’t have to deal with anything like this if you’re a paying customer! A good shop could have finished my airplane in 6 weeks easily! I figure we’re saving about 30K by taking the 6 month route, and I get to learn the new airplane well in the process:)
 
libertas said:
I have since heard this is a common issue with this shop, and that they are so busy right now they can't keep up. Good problem for them to have and I glad for them (truly), but I'll probably look elsewhere for now. They do have a good reputation, so it would be silly to write them off, but I'd really like to get this done.

This thread is very enlightening, and slightly concerning. Thanks for all the input.
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Who did the last annual 2.5 years ago? It would seem they should be doing it?

Not to be rude, but if you are looking to flip/sell this plane then I understand more why the shop is putting it on the back burner.

What about selling it out of annual. Let the buyer do a annual/pre buy all at once?
 
Cabin Class Hangar Queen out of Annual 2.5 years and a C-19 short- handed crew in a somewhat space limited hangar ? All parties should be betting it will be a long, pricey ordeal and it may not have a happy ending.

Shop Options:

Turn down a LOT of work including regular clients.

Put the remaining crew on permanent overtime.

If it was my shop I would want substantial money up front and we would work off of this. As work progresses it would be periodically replenished. Too many projects get partly completed and the Owner loses interest or runs out of money.Then it is abandoned and the Shop is out of luck.
 
Magman said:
If it was my shop I would want substantial money up front and we would work off of this. As work progresses it would be periodically replenished. Too many projects get partly completed and the Owner loses interest or runs out of money.Then it is abandoned and the Shop is out of luck.
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Absolutely. Mechanics need to charge retainer’s in this market. Some do actually. Just like lawyers. And what if they charged for every little email and phone call. Hasn’t been a problem for me as I only work for people I know and trust. One job at a time.
 
Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Stop calling once a week and start stopping in every other day. It’s easy to ignore someone on the phone and make excuses. It’s much harder to do if the person keeps showing up asking why work hasn’t started. Seems like you are a low priority to them. If there is another shop around I would go somewhere else. If you are having this much trouble getting them to do an inspection, how much trouble are they going to be once your plane is pulled apart and you no longer have an option to take it somewhere else?
 
Dan Thomas said:
Some owners need to spend a few months working in an aircraft shop. It would teach them a whole lot of things they didn't know. They would learn so much about the pressures from owners, the slander from cheapskates, the impossibility of pleasing everyone.

And they'd learn something about aircraft maintenance, too.
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Add the unavailability of parts, other delays are repair stations for props, cylinders, ect, and shop owners who are quick to accept too much work or too large projects and won’t pay OT to get it out the door.
 
Jdm said:
Absolutely. Mechanics need to charge retainer’s in this market. Some do actually. Just like lawyers. And what if they charged for every little email and phone call. Hasn’t been a problem for me as I only work for people I know and trust. One job at a time.
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Fortunately, I have a very good relationship with both my avionics shop and the FBO mechanics so they have never asked me for a retainer. I suppose that of it came down to it and I couldn't pay for the work, they have my plane. If they ever did ask for money up front, I would gladly pay it.
 
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Props, cylinders, and Garmin items seem to be the problem areas. I haven’t had much trouble finding other stuff. Covid has also taken a toll. Every shop I’m affiliated with has had Covid issues. If not the mechanics it’s their families. It’s been a hard year for independent shops.
Also finding A&Ps is very difficult. Just picked up a twin out of a large south Florida maintenance facility last week. They had 3 brand new A&Ps right out of school starting the same day I picked up. Nice young men! Unfortunately they won’t stay long because of other opportunities.
 
Jdm said:
Props, cylinders, and Garmin items seem to be the problem areas. I haven’t had much trouble finding other stuff. Covid has also taken a toll. Every shop I’m affiliated with has had Covid issues. If not the mechanics it’s their families. It’s been a hard year for independent shops.
Also finding A&Ps is very difficult. Just picked up a twin out of a large south Florida maintenance facility last week. They had 3 brand new A&Ps right out of school starting the same day I picked up. Nice young men! Unfortunately they won’t stay long because of other opportunities.
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Totally agree...
Covid has affected just about every business, sadly...

Cincinnati State College has a AP program and owns our airport.

The airport manager said most leave school after graduating for a good paying job at Amazon over at KCVG. Working in a well equipped shop on clean Jets.

I was at my avionics shop last week and Scott said it takes 6 months to get a Garmin 650GPS, GMA345 and a 255com/nav. My buddy paid a deposit to get them ordered and be put on the schedule sometime after the parts show up. Hopefully they will be here in 6 months???
 
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