How do you identify your airplane on the radio?

John Baker

John Baker

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John Baker
I fly a Piper Cherokee Warrior. When announcing myself, I always refer to my bird as a Cherokee. I have had instructors refer to it as a Piper, and one friend called it in as a Warrior.

My thinking is that what you call your plane should be what is most descriptive of what you are flying. When I hear someone refer to themselves as a Piper, I start looking for a yellow high wing, or just a high wing. Cherokee, most every pilot knows, is a low wing. Warrior just sounds pretentious to me, like saying "tally ho" instead of "traffic in sight"

What I'm wondering is, is my thinking correct, should you call in what best describes you to anyone who might be looking for you, such as someone in the pattern, or should you call in as what you actually are?

If you home build some obscure airplane that looks like a Cessna, should you identify yourself a a Cessna so everyone will know what to look for, or whatever you actually are?

What do you do?

John
 
"Masterful Bonanza"

(grin)
 
Our flying club has a Cherokee 235 and a Warrior so I got into the habit of using "Warrior 12345" if I'm flying the Warrior. In the Cessna 150 and 172 I use "Cessna 12345". Not consistent but it's a habit now.

I've had approach controllers and tower call me "Cherokee" or "Piper" even after I said "Warrior".
 
I've been told type; e.g. Cessna, Piper, Mooney, Lancair by my instructor.
 
This is answered in the AIM.

AIM 4-2-4 (a) 3
3. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha.

EXAMPLE-
1. Bonanza Six Five Five Golf.
2. Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit "Experimental" after initial contact).
Click to expand...
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/Chap4/aim0402.html

JohnH said:
Cherokee, most every pilot knows, is a low wing. Warrior just sounds pretentious to me, like saying "tally ho" instead of "traffic in sight"
Click to expand...
Warrior is more descriptive to me than Cherokee. There are a lot of "Cherokee" models with varying performance characteristics.

I personally generally say the model if it is more descriptive. The only exception is the Cessna 150, mostly because I think "Commuter" sounds ridiculous.
 
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"Cessna" when flying the 172 or 182, "Arrow" when flying the Arrow. Sometimes the local tower comes back with "Skylane" when I'm flying the 182. They know all the birds based at the field.
 
When I was flying the club planes I would say "Skyhawk" or "Skylane", but ATC would usually call me out to other traffic as "Cessna". In my own plane I always say "Cardinal", and interestingly, so does ATC.
 
The "official" position from the AIM...

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ATPubs/AIM/Chap4/aim0402.html

4-2-3. Contact Procedures ​
a. Initial Contact.
1. The terms initial contact or initial callup means the first radio call you make to a given facility or the first call to a different controller or FSS specialist within a facility. Use the following format:
(a) Name of the facility being called;
(b) Your full aircraft identification as filed in the flight plan or as discussed in paragraph 4-2-4, Aircraft Call Signs;
(c) When operating on an airport surface, state your position.
(d) The type of message to follow or your request if it is short; and
(e) The word "Over" if required.
EXAMPLE-
1. "New York Radio, Mooney Three One One Echo."
2. "Columbia Ground, Cessna Three One Six Zero Foxtrot, south ramp, I-F-R Memphis."
3. "Miami Center, Baron Five Six Three Hotel, request V-F-R traffic advisories."

4-2-4. Aircraft Call Signs ​
a. Precautions in the Use of Call Signs.
1. Improper use of call signs can result in pilots executing a clearance intended for another aircraft. Call signs should never be abbreviated on an initial contact or at any time when other aircraft call signs have similar numbers/sounds or identical letters/number; e.g., Cessna 6132F, Cessna 1622F, Baron 123F, Cherokee 7732F, etc.
EXAMPLE-
Assume that a controller issues an approach clearance to an aircraft at the bottom of a holding stack and an aircraft with a similar call sign (at the top of the stack) acknowledges the clearance with the last two or three numbers of the aircraft's call sign. If the aircraft at the bottom of the stack did not hear the clearance and intervene, flight safety would be affected, and there would be no reason for either the controller or pilot to suspect that anything is wrong. This kind of "human factors" error can strike swiftly and is extremely difficult to rectify.
2. Pilots, therefore, must be certain that aircraft identification is complete and clearly identified before taking action on an ATC clearance. ATC specialists will not abbreviate call signs of air carrier or other civil aircraft having authorized call signs. ATC specialists may initiate abbreviated call signs of other aircraft by using the prefix and the last three digits/letters of the aircraft identification after communications are established. The pilot may use the abbreviated call sign in subsequent contacts with the ATC specialist. When aware of similar/identical call signs, ATC specialists will take action to minimize errors by emphasizing certain numbers/letters, by repeating the entire call sign, by repeating the prefix, or by asking pilots to use a different call sign temporarily. Pilots should use the phrase "VERIFY CLEARANCE FOR (your complete call sign)" if doubt exists concerning proper identity.
3. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha.
EXAMPLE-
1. Bonanza Six Five Five Golf.
2. Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit "Experimental" after initial contact).
4. Air Taxi or other commercial operators not having FAA authorized call signs should prefix their normal identification with the phonetic word "Tango."
EXAMPLE-
Tango Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha.
5. Air carriers and commuter air carriers having FAA authorized call signs should identify themselves by stating the complete call sign (using group form for the numbers) and the word "heavy" if appropriate.
EXAMPLE-
1. United Twenty-Five Heavy.
2. Midwest Commuter Seven Eleven.
6. Military aircraft use a variety of systems including serial numbers, word call signs, and combinations of letters/numbers. Examples include Army Copter 48931; Air Force 61782; REACH 31792; Pat 157; Air Evac 17652; Navy Golf Alfa Kilo 21; Marine 4 Charlie 36, etc.
b. Air Ambulance Flights.
Because of the priority afforded air ambulance flights in the ATC system, extreme discretion is necessary when using the term "LIFEGUARD." It is only intended for those missions of an urgent medical nature and to be utilized only for that portion of the flight requiring expeditious handling. When requested by the pilot, necessary notification to expedite ground handling of patients, etc., is provided by ATC; however, when possible, this information should be passed in advance through non-ATC communications systems.
1. Civilian air ambulance flights responding to medical emergencies (first call to an accident scene, carrying patients, organ donors, organs, or other urgently needed lifesaving medical material) will be expedited by ATC when necessary. When expeditious handling is necessary, add the word "LIFEGUARD" in the remarks section of the flight plan. In radio communications, use the call sign "LIFEGUARD" followed by the aircraft registration letters/numbers.
2. Similar provisions have been made for the use of "AIR EVAC" and "MED EVAC" by military air ambulance flights, except that these military flights will receive priority handling only when specifically requested.
EXAMPLE-
Lifeguard Two Six Four Six.
3. Air carrier and Air Taxi flights responding to medical emergencies will also be expedited by ATC when necessary. The nature of these medical emergency flights usually concerns the transportation of urgently needed lifesaving medical materials or vital organs. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THE COMPANY/PILOT DETERMINE, BY THE NATURE/URGENCY OF THE SPECIFIC MEDICAL CARGO, IF PRIORITY ATC ASSISTANCE IS REQUIRED. Pilots shall ensure that the word "LIFEGUARD" is included in the remarks section of the flight plan and use the call sign "LIFEGUARD" followed by the company name and flight number for all transmissions when expeditious handling is required. It is important for ATC to be aware of "LIFEGUARD" status, and it is the pilot's responsibility to ensure that this information is provided to ATC.
EXAMPLE-
Lifeguard Delta Thirty-Seven.
c. Student Pilots Radio Identification.
1. The FAA desires to help student pilots in acquiring sufficient practical experience in the environment in which they will be required to operate. To receive additional assistance while operating in areas of concentrated air traffic, student pilots need only identify themselves as a student pilot during their initial call to an FAA radio facility.
EXAMPLE-
Dayton tower, Fleetwing One Two Three Four, student pilot.
2. This special identification will alert FAA ATC personnel and enable them to provide student pilots with such extra assistance and consideration as they may need. It is recommended that student pilots identify themselves as such, on initial contact with each clearance delivery prior to taxiing, ground control, tower, approach and departure control frequency, or FSS contact.

If you plan on using the radio to talk to ATC it might be a good idea to be familiar with JO 7110.65T, Air Traffic Control, Section 2-4-20, Aircraft Identification as it describes what ATC expects to happen.

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/ATC.pdf

Once initial contact is made certain abbreviations may be permitted.

I use the full N #, including the "N' on initial call up, which is the full aircraft identification, and then provide aircraft model information, including "experimental," on the subsequent transmission after communcation is established when requesting clearance for taxi and take off, or landing, or flight following with ATC. When calling unicom at or approaching an uncontrolled field I just use the N # because no one knows what a Romanian trainer looks like until they see one. In hi traffic areas, such as around fly-in activities, I'll include color and "low wing" in the announcement. Less time on the radio the better because when you're talking you're not listening.


 
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Skyhawk seven eight seven two golf initially; then Skyhawk seven two golf(in repeated announcements).

HR
 
As mine is an EXP I am obliged to announce "Experimental 777HT" ...

Going into Longview Tx. (TRSA) a couple of months ago I provided the above and was rejoined with:"what kind of experimental"?
I replied:"biplane. Creme and green paint. Forest Green interior. ".

Chuckling, he cleared me to proceed...:cornut:
 
I generally fly Cessnas, but there's a pretty big difference in performance between a 152 and a Citation (neither of which I fly), and even a fair amount of difference between the Skyhawk, Skylane, and Centurion, all of which I do fly. Therefore, I announce as the model, since they're all pretty recognizable (with the possible exception of the Centurion). I know that if I'm preparing to depart, it matters to me if it's a 152 or a twin Cessna turning final. If someone isn't familiar with the type, they can always assume it's fast and will be on them soon! :)
 
I have found that just going along with whatever ATC wants to call me is the easiest. In New England 'Warrior' was pretty common. In SoCal, 9 times out of 10, they call almost every SE Piper a Cherokee, regardless of what you call yourself on initial contact. I've been labelled a Cherokee in Warriors, Archers, Arrows, C6's and the Lance. What is really annoying is when you fly from San Diego to Phoenix and one controller wants to call you a Cherokee, the next calls you a Lance and you're a Saratoga by the time you are being vectored for final.
 
Well John, I Fly a Warrior and the tower at CXY likes it when i call Warrior8085A so that is what i use everywhere. Dave G.
 
Hiperbiper said:
As mine is an EXP I am obliged to announce "Experimental 777HT" ...
Click to expand...
Well, no you aren't. Note the AIM example in Jesse's post above: "Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit "Experimental" after initial contact)...."
We are required to inform ATC of the experimental nature of our aircraft, but, despite popular opinion, that does not require "Experimental" as a call sign. I use "Fly Baby Eight-Four-Eight" on the CTAF, sometimes shortened to just "Fly Baby" if it's busy on the frequency and I'm trying to slip a call in.

I've only been into controlled fields a couple of times, but THEY do tend to shorten my call sign to "Experimental Eight-Four-Eight..." 'Cept for the time they called me, "North American," but that's different....

Ron Wanttaja

 
wanttaja said:
Well, no you aren't. Note the AIM example in Jesse's post above: "Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit "Experimental" after initial contact)...."
We are required to inform ATC of the experimental nature of our aircraft, but, despite popular opinion, that does not require "Experimental" as a call sign. I use "Fly Baby Eight-Four-Eight" on the CTAF, sometimes shortened to just "Fly Baby" if it's busy on the frequency and I'm trying to slip a call in.

I've only been into controlled fields a couple of times, but THEY do tend to shorten my call sign to "Experimental Eight-Four-Eight..." 'Cept for the time they called me, "North American," but that's different....

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...

And that's only required when communicating with a tower, as I understand 8130-2F

The pilot in command of this aircraft must notify air traffic control of the experimental nature of this aircraft when operating into or out of airports with an operational control tower. When filing IFR, the experimental nature of this aircraft must be listed in the remarks section of the flight plan.​
I've had them pause when calling me out as traffic to another aircraft.."xxxC you have a...uh..er...trainer at your 10 o'clock..." although most will just say "an IR23" which I'm sure really clears up things...:wink2:​
 
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Hiperbiper said:
As mine is an EXP I am obliged to announce "Experimental 777HT" ...

Going into Longview Tx. (TRSA) a couple of months ago I provided the above and was rejoined with:"what kind of experimental"?
I replied:"biplane. Creme and green paint. Forest Green interior. ".
Click to expand...

I think the ATC people want to know the maximum speed and stall speed. Not having flown those, I never researched AIM and Circulars, but what do we think about announcing a typical LSA as Experimenal Hotel X-Ray Bravo?
 
zaitcev said:
I think the ATC people want to know the maximum speed and stall speed. Not having flown those, I never researched AIM and Circulars, but what do we think about announcing a typical LSA as Experimenal Hotel X-Ray Bravo?
Click to expand...

Some of the LSA have known ATC designations such as the Remos & Gobosh. I forget where I found the list tho.

As for Warrior vs Cherokee - most of the time out west they're both "cherokees" in the eyes & ears of ATC. So's an Archer.
 
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"Skylane One Two Seven Niner Mike" it conveys the most information in the least airtime. If the controller doesn't know what a "Skylane" is, they'll ask. And they also need equipment code if they're putting me into "the system" even VFR, since that's what their computerized or paper flight strip requires. So a "say type aircraft" changes my response to "Cessna One Eight Two Slant Alpha".

My assumption is always that they're working without a "D-side" these days to handle their paperwork and probably monitoring more than one radio frequency. They can also have a call on their internal telecom network that I can't hear at the same time, so transmissions are short as possible and convey as much information as possible.

Don Brown's old AvWeb articles are excellent reads to put yourself in their chair with their headset on. If you put yourself in their shoes in your head and try to imagine what they're doing (tower visits are also great, but harder to come by than they once were), you can customize/tailor your information you're conveying to them to arrive at their end at the right pace and amount. Less is often more when they're busy.

You can also "game the system" a bit. It's busy, you've heard three aircraft get a "stand-by" with information-less cal ups, and you can tell the controller is REALLY on his or her game... A tactic change to a full call up at a pace exactly the speed someone would type, can sometimes be a game changer and get you service faster than the back and forth of a multi-part call up.

"Skylane One Two Seven Niner Mike, Cessna One Eight Two Slant Alpha, 10 miles south of Black Forest, VFR to Albuquerque, level one-zero thousand fife-hundred, requesting advisories." If things are clicking right along, you can imagine the controller starting to tag your block as soon as (s)he heard the type of aircraft and the pacing because instinctively they know that you're also on your game and not going to chew up their precious airtime.

Not a good idea to do the above if you can hear they're already vectoring six other aircraft heavily for approaches, etc. It's important -- most important -- to listen and get a feel for how busy they are.

Also, be polite by knowing what they're required to do. They're *required* to confirm your altitude and possibly give you a new altimeter setting when you're handed off between sectors. Your frequency change tag up should always include your altitude in a normal hand off, so do it. "Denver Center, Skylane Seven Niner Mike, level one zero thousand fife-hundred," will almost always get you back, "Skylane Seven Niner Mike, Roger. XXX Altimeter Two Niner Niner Two." "Two Niner Niner Two, Seven Niner Mike." And you're done. Fast, accurate. Finished.

Get good at it, it gets noticed. Controllers remember voices and tail numbers. Keeping transmissions as professional as possible means they'll call you first because they know you'll do it right and they can spend more time later on the pilot that's using non-standard or confusing phraseology. You can take a small moment of pride when the OTHER guy gets the 360 for spacing because he's utterly annoying the controller if you nail your radio work. ;)
 
zaitcev said:
I think the ATC people want to know the maximum speed and stall speed. Not having flown those, I never researched AIM and Circulars, but what do we think about announcing a typical LSA as Experimenal Hotel X-Ray Bravo?
Click to expand...

That information is found in FAA Order 7110.65, Appendix C

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/ATC.pdf

and JO 7340.2B CONTRACTIONS, Chapter 5, Section 3

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/CNT/5-3.htm


HXA -Aircraft with cruise (indicated) airspeeds of 100 knots or
less​

HXB - Aircraft with cruise (indicated) airspeeds of greater than
100 knots, up to and including 200 knots​

HXC- Aircraft with cruise (indicated) airspeeds greater than
200 knots​

and is only used when communicating with ATC.​

I don't think there is a rule for what is to be used on unicom.​
 
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I just use "experimental blah blah blah" - saying "Merlin ..." (the "model") would mean nothing to nobody and saying the "Make" which is the names of the guys who originally built it would mean even less.

Mr. Ronachamp was kind engough to look up the designation for a Macair Merlin for me (which is basicly the same kit) and I have it written down in case I need it. But otherwise...
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
I just use "experimental blah blah blah" - saying "Merlin ..." (the "model") would mean nothing to nobody and saying the "Make" which is the names of the guys who originally built it would mean even less.

Mr. Ronachamp was kind engough to look up the designation for a Macair Merlin for me (which is basicly the same kit) and I have it written down in case I need it. But otherwise...
Click to expand...

Potential for confusion here. We have a twin turboprop Merlin flying in and out of my airport regularly. I was unfamiliar with the Merlin experimental. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=q0mDTcDtFMmY0QGulaXWCA&ved=0CDwQ9QEwBg http://www.ultralightflyer.com/merlin_gt_aircraft/index.html
 
Cutlass 216 Juliet Alpha, don't want to be confused with those straight legged birds.
 
One of the most annoying things to hear besides ATITAPA is an aircraft ifentified as a Cessna. At least Cherokee is more specific and only refers to 3 or 4 models.

My Cherokee 180 was Cherokee 8816J
Cessna 172 is Skyhawk 7242G
Cessna 152 is either Commuter or Sparrowhawk 1234X
Arrow is Arrow. Warrior is Warrior.

No need to ever user Cessna, Piper, Beech, etc. as types.
 
jesse said:
This is answered in the AIM.

AIM 4-2-4 (a) 3
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/Chap4/aim0402.html


Warrior is more descriptive to me than Cherokee. There are a lot of "Cherokee" models with varying performance characteristics.

I personally generally say the model if it is more descriptive. The only exception is the Cessna 150, mostly because I think "Commuter" sounds ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Thats generally what I do however The older cherokees are just that...cherokees they are not warriors or archers. and it you ad whether its a 140, 160, 180 etc it can get confusling ie Cherokee 140 9765W 5 east 2K inbound full stop, there are too many numbers so I'll drop the 140 there isn't too much difference between a 140 and 180 five miles out.
 
Henning said:
"Twin Cessna"
Click to expand...

murphey said:
Nope, that designation belongs to Mari.
Click to expand...

That's what I don't like about the "Twin Cessna" call sign. It can mean a 310, 335, 340, 401, 402, 404, 414, or 421. And quite technically, Mari's Citation is a Twin Cessna. Some 421 operators call them Golden Eagles. Otherwise, it's just a Twin Cessna.

I've debated with going by "Sky King" for the 310, and see how they respond. Seeing as tower yells at me for "Twin Cessna Four Eight Eight Sugar Pop" they'd probably yell at me even more if I changed it to "Sky King...".

The Aztec is... Aztec.

SkyHog said:
No need to ever user Cessna, Piper, Beech, etc. as types.
Click to expand...

What about in the case of Greg's 195? Or a Beech 18? A J-3 is obviously "Cub..." but not every plane had a name. The 310 didn't, and it's just "Twin Cessna." "Twin Beech" is about as descriptive.
 
Decathlon 102GD in the pattern and such at uncontrolled fields but for the type for traffic advisories is BL8- Sometimes they call me decathlon sometimes I get Bellanca - whatever they say back to me I use from that point forward.
 
SkyHog said:
One of the most annoying things to hear besides ATITAPA is an aircraft ifentified as a Cessna.

No need to ever user Cessna, Piper, Beech, etc. as types.
Click to expand...

Ok Mr Smart guy....what do you suppose I should call myself when I am flying my 170???
 
Fearless Tower said:
Ok Mr Smart guy....what do you suppose I should call myself when I am flying my 170???
Click to expand...
Bird dog? :thumbsup:


I have a PA28-161 Piper Cherokee Warrior. I use Cherokee when I call ATC. They sometimes call me Archer but who cares, as long as the call sign is followed by 'you are cleared as requested.....' I am happy.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
That's what I don't like about the "Twin Cessna" call sign. It can mean a 310, 335, 340, 401, 402, 404, 414, or 421. And quite technically, Mari's Citation is a Twin Cessna. Some 421 operators call them Golden Eagles. Otherwise, it's just a Twin Cessna.
Click to expand...
Even within the Citations there's quite a difference in performance between a Citation II and a Citation X. I just call it a Citation, though. Sometimes controllers will call it a Sovereign or point it out to someone else as a Citation 680. I figure that very few other pilots know what it is and could identify it on sight, though.

I flew a lot of single-engine Cessnas and they were always just a "Cessna" to me with the exception of the 210 which I called a Centurion. I called the 320 a "Twin Cessna" but very occasionally the controller would call it a Skyknight.
 
Once upon a time I flew my PA-12 on EDO 2000 floats from Maryland to Florida. I got flight following most of the way. I would check in as Piper Seaplane 120FA and usually that was good enough. If there was conflicting traffic or if a controller were curious they'd ask what I was and I'd tell them we were a Piper Supercruiser. Given my 80 kt speed I got a few chuckles from that and a few comments from other pilots.
 
I use Jabiru 697J. So far ATC hasn't called me anything, just comes back with the November 697 Juliet. There are only 2 registered in Colorado. APA ground did ask my type - JAB4.

I take 'Cessna' to be a single unless I get other clues. Twins usually say so and so do Citations.

The generic Experimental doesn't convey much info to me. Could be a Kit Fox or a turbine Lancair. For common type, I'd rather hear the type, RV, Kit Fox, etc. Some of the locals use 'yellow high wing' - 'red low wing' for unique planes.
 
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Is it not somewhat of a safety issue that other pilots should know what your plane looks like?

I don't know how many times I have been told while approaching an airport or landing pattern that I was number two or three behind something like, say, a Travel Air or some other contraption I've never heard of. I've found myself calling back to the tower to confirm that the airplane landing is what I am supposed to be behind.

Turning base when you shouldn't be can make for some bent airplanes. Maybe even some hurt feelings, who knows?

Wouldn't it be better for the Travel Air to identify himself as a bi-plane? Shouldn't we know what we are looking for, especially in crowded airspace?

John
 
John Baker said:
Is it not somewhat of a safety issue that other pilots should know what your plane looks like?

I don't know how many times I have been told while approaching an airport or landing pattern that I was number two or three behind something like, say, a Travel Air or some other contraption I've never heard of. I've found myself calling back to the tower to confirm that the airplane landing is what I am supposed to be behind.

Turning base when you shouldn't be can make for some bent airplanes. Maybe even some hurt feelings, who knows?

Wouldn't it be better for the Travel Air to identify himself as a bi-plane? Shouldn't we know what we are looking for, especially in crowded airspace?

John
Click to expand...

Probably better to say 'red bi-plane'. I would take Travel Air to be a twin Beechcraft.

It's tough. Some pilots know every variation and other stopped with what they fly. Lots of time I'm just looking for an airplane where they report with no idea what I'll find.
 
Hiperbiper said:
As mine is an EXP I am obliged to announce "Experimental 777HT" ...

Going into Longview Tx. (TRSA) a couple of months ago I provided the above and was rejoined with:"what kind of experimental"?
I replied:"biplane. Creme and green paint. Forest Green interior. ".

Chuckling, he cleared me to proceed...:cornut:
Click to expand...

Before my first flight I visited the tower here in jackson Hole and asked that exact question.... Their answer was.... The proper phrasology is "Experimental 801 Bravo Hotel.... Been using that term hundreds of times with the local tower, enroute towers and center for flight following and so far no one has corrected me.. But,,, The day is still young,:idea::D

Ben, experimental 801 bravo hotel, Haas. :cheerswine:
 
Tomahawk two four two six foxtrot works fine most of the time......
Except going into Oshkosh where they kept calling us a Skipper.
That seemed strange since Beech only built a couple hundred of those and I've only ever seen ONE. With 2500 built, Tomahawks are far more common.
 
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