How do you carry mogas to your plane?

texasclouds

texasclouds

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I’ve been running 100LL, but could save a little $ if I used ethanol free mogas from a nearby gas station. High wing, mogas stc, and burn rate 7GPH.

I don’t want to carry 5gal cans and fill from a ladder. Ideally I would have a steel tank in the bed of my truck, a hose, and electric pump.

I’m thinking a decent setup would cost around $1000 for tank, grounding cable, hose, pump, valve, pump nozzle. A counter would be nice as well.

Anyone have any suggestions, or have been down this road?
 
Keep in mind when sizing a tank that mogas become stale quickly. Be especially careful with leftover winter blend fuel when it gets hot.
 
I think there's a thread or two on here about that very thing ... didn't @Jay Honeck have one about building a fuel trailer?

Edit - just did a quick search for "mogas fuel trailer" and got 3 pages of hits with multiple different threads, raining from storing to moving to fuel trailer, etc ...
 
I did it with 5 gallon cans for years on a low wing. Not for a price savings, but because my plane ran so much better on non-ethanol mogas than 100LL: no more fouled plugs, better winter starts. By the time you spend $1000 on a tank, drive to find ethanol free gas, etc, the "savings" are gone. Gas is the one variable cost that we can all control. I'd find a different way to save money.
 
If your in Texas you might want to stick to 5 gal cans and no more than 4…we have some DOT laws that restrict hauling personal use gasoline not in a fuel tank unless it’s original equipment or a DOT certified with filing and placarded tank…diesel is different but that makes sense…at least that’s what the DPS trooper told me while writing a ticket for MoGas in a couple of 55 gallon plastic drums on my lowboy trailer…
 
Warlock said:
If your in Texas you might want to stick to 5 gal cans and no more than 4…we have some DOT laws that restrict hauling personal use gasoline not in a fuel tank unless it’s original equipment or a DOT certified with filing and placarded tank…diesel is different but that makes sense…at least that’s what the DPS trooper told me while writing a ticket for MoGas in a couple of 55 gallon plastic drums on my lowboy trailer…
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If only that were an enclosed trailer. ;)
 
texasclouds said:
I’ve been running 100LL, but could save a little $ if I used ethanol free mogas from a nearby gas station. High wing, mogas stc, and burn rate 7GPH.

I don’t want to carry 5gal cans and fill from a ladder. Ideally I would have a steel tank in the bed of my truck, a hose, and electric pump.

I’m thinking a decent setup would cost around $1000 for tank, grounding cable, hose, pump, valve, pump nozzle. A counter would be nice as well.

Anyone have any suggestions, or have been down this road?
Click to expand...

Just curious how much you spend on gas annually, and how long it would take to recoup the initial $1000 investment.

I'm not a huge fan on mogas in aircraft honestly. Quality control on the mogas is hideous. You never really know what you are getting from the pump. It may be labelled ethanol free, but there is almost always some ethanol in it these days. The tanker that hauls ethanol free mogas is the same tanker that hauls the blend, and they don't always empty between loads, there is no requirement to. You also don't know the age or quality of the fuel blend you are getting.

The distribution system for aviation fuels is much tighter controlled, with QC checks at every stop from the refinery, distribution center, tanker, airport fuel farm, and airport fuel truck.
 
I carry mogas in the typical 5 gallon containers. Hoisting them up onto a high-winger is definitely a muscle-building exercise. I have recently started using a Tera pump. (I think it is this model:)
https://www.terapump.net/TREP04L-p/trep04l.htm

It does have the extra-long hose that allows me to leave the containers on the ground and still have the nozzle reach the filler neck. The pump is both battery-powered and ac-powered and there is a cut-off nozzle. I have only used it a couple of times, so I don't know how long-lasting it will be. But so far it seems to be doing the job. It does eliminate the inevitable spills that occur when trying to tip a full container into the tank, and even with the slower flow due to the head pressure, my sense is that the total time to refill is not significantly greater than with the manual re-filling.
 
texasclouds said:
I’ve been running 100LL, but could save a little $ if I used ethanol free mogas from a nearby gas station. High wing, mogas stc, and burn rate 7GPH.

I don’t want to carry 5gal cans and fill from a ladder. Ideally I would have a steel tank in the bed of my truck, a hose, and electric pump.

I’m thinking a decent setup would cost around $1000 for tank, grounding cable, hose, pump, valve, pump nozzle. A counter would be nice as well.

Anyone have any suggestions, or have been down this road?
Click to expand...

Have you considered a 55 gallon drum and a fill-rite FR-112 rotary hand pump? $140 plus the drum. You should be able to find a used new oil or antifreeze drum for $25.
 
I’m seeing the rectangular fuel tanks listed “not for gasoline or other flammable liquids”.
 
Warlock said:
If your in Texas you might want to stick to 5 gal cans and no more than 4…we have some DOT laws that restrict hauling personal use gasoline not in a fuel tank unless it’s original equipment or a DOT certified with filing and placarded tank…diesel is different but that makes sense…at least that’s what the DPS trooper told me while writing a ticket for MoGas in a couple of 55 gallon plastic drums on my lowboy trailer…
Click to expand...

man I thought Texas was the Wild West and anything goes! :)
 
Back when I had a low-wing ‘Mogas’ airplane, I would often fill up 2-3+ 5 gallon cans on the way to the airport, 91 octane, non-ethanol. I also used an ethanol test kit with every batch of gas, low cost, simple. My usual intent, was with fuel I planned to use soon, not filling up to leave sit for 3 months.

I also normally never went much beyond 50% auto fuel, not that it was an issue. With normal practices, it was the mix, not 100% car gas. When on the road, 100LL is usually easier.

I’m a bit of a fuel can snob, much preferring older, simpler cans. After that, a redneck conversion usually works.

The high wing is more of a chore, I’d check with a pumping mechanism. It’s not always the $$ saved with the price difference, nice to top off at the hangar for the planned flight.
 
When I had my Kolb I used 5 gallon cans with a dip tube, hose, and valve setup and pumped the fuel up to the tank with air pressure from a foot pump intended for air mattresses. Worked great.
 
Dana said:
When I had my Kolb I used 5 gallon cans with a dip tube, hose, and valve setup and pumped the fuel up to the tank with air pressure from a foot pump intended for air mattresses. Worked great.
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Oof...that made me cringe. Pressurizing a gasoline can with air is a baaaaaad idea. Especially statically charged air from a plastic air mattress pump and associated tubing. Not only is it way easier to accidentally generate a spark, but that spark would be inside the artificially oxygen-rich pressurized fuel can. Literally a ticking time bomb.
 
drummer4468 said:
Oof...that made me cringe. Pressurizing a gasoline can with air is a baaaaaad idea. Especially statically charged air from a plastic air mattress pump and associated tubing. Not only is it way easier to accidentally generate a spark, but that spark would be inside the artificially oxygen-rich pressurized fuel can. Literally a ticking time bomb.
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Nope, but I did consider that... I ran the numbers and determined that at the pressure I was at, only a few psi, it was still well in the safe, i.e. noncombustible, zone. And the can was always on the ground, i.e. grounded, during the operation. No more and probably less dangerous than holding a plastic can in the air while pouring and maybe rubbing against it with a nylon jacket.
 
baboss said:
DOT Refueling Tanks - Aluminum Tank Industries (atitank.com)
I've got the 51gallon tank (TTR51) which still allows me use of most of my truck bed. I put a Fill-Rite pump and filter setup on it.
Click to expand...

Nice tank, looks like the 50 gal is around $500. This could serve dual purpose for me to have fuel for my mower/4wheeler/ford tractor/emergency at my little farm. I’d mount it on a base so I could unload it with my tractor forks. Hmmm, but with the current climate my wife would give the nod…
 
I have a 95 gallon transfer tank with pump in my truck bed. Setup was about $1000.
 
Dana said:
. I ran the numbers and determined that at the pressure I was at, only a few psi, it was still well in the safe, i.e. noncombustible, zone.
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Not sure what you were computing, but gasoline is always in the combustible zone. Unless you are thinking autoigniting under pressure, aka dieseling.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Not sure what you were computing, but gasoline is always in the combustible zone. Unless you are thinking autoigniting under pressure, aka dieseling.
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Liquid gasoline doesn't burn. Gasoline mixed with air does, but only at a ratio between 1.4-7.6%, too rich or too lean and it won't burn. That's why sealed gasoline cans don't explode, because the vapor pressure of gasoline in a sealed container makes for a too-rich mixture, i.e. above 7.6%. If you pump air into the tank, that can drive the partial pressure of the air up enough that can drive the ratio into the flammable range, which is what @drummer4468 was alluding to. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I calculated that the pressure I was using wasn't anywhere near enough to get it into the flammable range.
 
texasclouds said:
I’m seeing the rectangular fuel tanks listed “not for gasoline or other flammable liquids”.
Click to expand...

If it's not for flammable liquids it's not a fuel tank.

I have one that was made by Scribner Plastics. It's definitely made for gasoline, but they also make them for diesel, flammable solvents, potable water, foodstuffs, etc, just order the correct one.
Mine is 30 years old and I think it will outlive me.
 
Dana said:
Liquid gasoline doesn't burn. Gasoline mixed with air does, but only at a ratio between 1.4-7.6%, too rich or too lean and it won't burn. That's why sealed gasoline cans don't explode, because the vapor pressure of gasoline in a sealed container makes for a too-rich mixture, i.e. above 7.6%. If you pump air into the tank, that can drive the partial pressure of the air up enough that can drive the ratio into the flammable range, which is what @drummer4468 was alluding to. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I calculated that the pressure I was using wasn't anywhere near enough to get it into the flammable range.
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I understand what you're saying, and I agree that the mixture is (usually) too rich to combust in a closed container. HOWEVER...you also have to consider that this is not a closed container. By pumping fresh air in, you're creating a large pocket of leaner mixture around the inlet; It's not instantly homogenous. And momentary as that pocket may be, coincidently, moving air and friction between dissimilar materials generates static electricity. So basically with every pump stroke, you're taking a gamble that a few electrons won't get overly excited and make a small arc right where lot of dissimilar gases are churning(fresh air exiting the hose and meeting fuel vapor at relatively high speed). One little zap at the wrong time and that nice stoichiometrically balanced pocket goes boom, which is easily enough to blow the cap off if not violently rupture the container (which is already pressurized). Best case, the flame front goes out before it reaches the gasoline spraying everywhere and you just have a smelly mess. Worst case: you, your plane, and anyone around become uncomfortably warm very quickly.
 
I carried a fuel tank in my pickup for 20+ years. Mine wasn’t approved for gasoline. Here’s a DOT approved tank. It stays under the 119 gallon limit where US DOT regs will require CDL and Hazmat. My tanks required venting or they’d swell badly. I wouldn’t trust auto gas to stay good for very long with open venting. I wonder what your insurer would say?

Check your local airport regs. Not all airports allow fueling from a private vehicle.


https://www.jmesales.com/110-gallon...MIs-aTi8Gi9gIVIhvnCh1xvwp3EAQYAiABEgKgjfD_BwE
 
texasclouds said:
I don’t want to carry 5gal cans and fill from a ladder. Ideally I would have a steel tank in the bed of my truck, a hose, and electric pump.

I’m thinking a decent setup would cost around $1000 for tank, grounding cable, hose, pump, valve, pump nozzle.
Click to expand...
How much for just a pump and hose that you can stick into the gas tank of the car in front of the next hangar?
<did I type that out loud?>
 
I have 6 5 gallon gas cans that I bring with me. I bought a transfer pump from West Marine that works well. I have a low wing, but even with a high wing, you can set the can on the wing and let gravity do the work to transfer fuel. you wont have to hold the can upside down
 
I’ve been using auto fuel in my Pa28-235 O-540 since it was suggested by my A&P, sure cleaned up my plugs. 100 gallon tank and pump was around $500 five years ago
 
We're past 30 posts, and no one has suggested 2L pepsi bottles, or a 500 gal army surplus trailer yet. That's pretty cool. Not for airplanes, but I've seen folks use both of those.
 
Albany Tom said:
We're past 30 posts, and no one has suggested 2L pepsi bottles, or a 500 gal army surplus trailer yet. That's pretty cool. Not for airplanes, but I've seen folks use both of those.
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well I use a 20oz pop bottle when I buy mogas for the plane… no BS.

it’s my ethanol tester. Splash of mogas and a few drops of water based food color. Shake like heck for a minute- if gas turns color- there’s ethanol in it. If food color still in beads then there’s no ethanol in it
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Two different fuel trucks IIRC.

But I just use 5 gallon cans. Snot a big deal.

edit: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/how-to-build-a-fuel-truck.82244/#post-1781355
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Four, now.

I first built the Mighty Grape -- an old purple Nissan pickup truck with a 55 gallon transfer tank in back.

Then, when that died (It actually broke in half when the oil change place put it on the lift! Ya gotta love road salt in Iowa) I built the Green Grape, a Toyota T-100.

In Texas I traded that on an F-150, which enabled me to up the tank size to 100 gallons.

Then, when I got a new F-150 I moved the tank to a dedicated trailer, because I was using the truck to haul stuff.

I'm well over 20,000 gallons of mogas through my last three airplanes. Sometimes the saving is only a buck a gallon, sometimes two, versus avgas, but that's only a nice side effect of running a fuel that works better in my engines than that nasty 100LL, with four times the amount of lead our Lycomings were designed to use.

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk
 
Jay didn't build a trailer, he bought a junker minipickup and mounted the tank in the bed (under a camper cover). It worked pretty well.
I've got a couple of neighbors that have built fuel trailers. Fortunately, there's a station that sells 93 Octane E0 just up the road (one of the advantages of being on a large recreational lake, boats don't like ethanol either).
 
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Can somebody explain to me what a non-flammable fuel is?

Screen Shot 2022-03-12 at 2.34.28 PM.png


Pump is made of lightweight, durable cast aluminum and can be used with diesel fuel and kerosene. Not to be connected to existing fuel system. Tank is not intended for use with gasoline or other flammable fuels.
Click to expand...

Is diesel not considered flammable, or is this just sales people trying to walk the line between liability and making the sale?

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200671209_200671209
 
Flocker said:
"Built in baffles?" Probably susceptible to damage from flammable fuels? Weird.
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I think it's just not DOT approved for fuels, but it's only use is to hold fuel, so farmers will still buy them, and they can deny responsibility by saying "not for flammable fuels".

That's just my theory.
 
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