Homemade bagels

That’s different than my experience with making homemade bagels. Between the 2 rises (if I remember correctly), boiling, and baking we weren’t eating them until 3pm.

on the other-hand, why would anyone live where you can’t get good bagels? That Probably means you can’t get good pizza either.
 
skier said:
That’s different than my experience with making homemade bagels. Between the 2 rises (if I remember correctly), boiling, and baking we weren’t eating them until 3pm.

on the other-hand, why would anyone live where you can’t get good bagels? That Probably means you can’t get good pizza either.
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"Good bagel" and "good pizza" are a matter of definition. No, I have not had what I consider a real bagel or real pizza outside the metro NYC area, but have encountered reasonable, or at least acceptable, facsimiles.
 
I make them about once a year. I boil them in lye too. They come out very yummy. It is a lot of work though, since it's a shaped and par-boiled bread. Worth it though. I made naan last night. Boy is it yummy.
 
midlifeflyer said:
"Good bagel" and "good pizza" are a matter of definition. No, I have not had what I consider a real bagel or real pizza outside the metro NYC area, but have encountered reasonable, or at least acceptable, facsimiles.
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We used to have an awesome bagel shop close to where I now live. The owners had transplanted from New York. Unfortunately, they retired. So, I haven't had a real bagel in years. Just round bread with a hole in the middle.
 
Montreal bagels are quite good, as long as you're not trying to compare them to NY bagels. Not as puffy, a denser, and a hint of sweetness. I like them the same way I like both NY style thin crust and chicago style deep dish pizza...two items that are both delicious on their own and not to be compared.
 
It's been several decades since I have had a true NY bagel or thin crust pizza. One of these days i'll get back there and see if they are as good as I remember. At least we have a local bakery that makes very good beagles and donuts.
 
Kudos on giving homemade bagels a try. I've never been that brave (or had that much patience).

There are a few good near-facsimiles for NY bagels around the LA area, but I've yet to find true NY/NJ pizza. Frankly, just the thought of it is making my mouth water right now. Yes, I've found good pizza, but nothing that compares to a real NY/NJ pie. I grew up in a near-NYC suburb, so there are only three foods I'm qualified to have an opinion on - bagels, pizza, and pickles.
 
I have a recipe handed down from my Dad... we made them many times when I was a kid. The recipe is clipped from a newspaper, no idea where from or when. Could have been Kansas City, Philly area, Dayton area, or Omaha. Or somewhere else. The title is, "How to make water bagels (if you must)". We always joked that the resulting bagels were a survival food -- if being attacked by a tiger, you could bean him with one of the bagels and eat roast tiger for a week. They were tough and chewy, and I loved them. The first time I had a store bought bagel I was quite disappointed. I thought it was more like a soft doughnut-shaped bread thing with very little flavor.

The recipe calls for Pabst Blue Ribbon malt extract, long unavailable. We tried it several years ago substituting molasses; they were OK but not the same. One of these days I'll hunt down some malt extract and make a batch. Maybe. No one seems to really appreciate them like I do.
 
Everyone knows that New Haven, CT pizza is the best, now back to your bagel talk. :)
 
Dave Theisen said:
Everyone knows that New Haven, CT pizza is the best, now back to your bagel talk. :)
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Want to find a good thin crust pizza? Find a Greek run place not an Italian!

I made these last weekend. Turned out pretty well and not too different than a bagel.

ZiHIDYq.jpg
 
I watch this guy a lot and he just happened to put out a recent bagel vid. I was thinking of trying it, with very low expectations (due to my cooking ability, not his recipe):

 
skier said:
That’s different than my experience with making homemade bagels. Between the 2 rises (if I remember correctly), boiling, and baking we weren’t eating them until 3pm.

on the other-hand, why would anyone live where you can’t get good bagels? That Probably means you can’t get good pizza either.
Click to expand...
Meh. Start them the night before, slow rise in the fridge and less than an hour after that. Couple of hours total. What else will you do being incarcerated in your house until the restrictions are lifted?

Chain-store and grocery store bagels don't cut it. When I was going to NY often, I'd bring some back (if I didn't eat them on the train, meaning a stop at Zaro's at Penn Station for some other snack, too.

Define "good pizza". Some will say NY, some will say Chicago, some will say Mystic, but personally my favorite is stuff you get in Italy (and a few other places in Europe). The Italian Store does a passable pizza and it's not far from me.
 
Dave Theisen said:
Everyone knows that New Haven, CT pizza is the best, now back to your bagel talk. :)
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actually I briefly worked at Lena's Pizza in Hartford when I was in college. by far some of the best dang pizza evarrrrrrrr.
 
Whatever that abomination they make in Chicago is, it isn't pizza. It's a f--in casserole.

First, it's going to be at least 16" diameter, probably more like 20". Thin crust. Just the right amount of crispy crunch, but not too much. The sauce - not much, and not a strong flavor. The sauce is to lubricate the space between the cheese and the crust.

The cheese. I don't know what it is about the cheese, but it seems to me it is a very specific, unique blend to the NY area. Just a certain amount of romano for tangy flavor, and specific type of mozarella for gooey-ness. Some places are better at getting this right than others, but inevitably if they get close on the cheese, they screw up the sauce or the crust.

Pepperoni is allowed, but optional. That's it. There are no other toppings.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Whatever that abomination they make in Chicago is, it isn't pizza. It's a f--in casserole.

First, it's going to be at least 16" diameter, probably more like 20". Thin crust. Just the right amount of crispy crunch, but not too much. The sauce - not much, and not a strong flavor. The sauce is to lubricate the space between the cheese and the crust.

The cheese. I don't know what it is about the cheese, but it seems to me it is a very specific, unique blend to the NY area. Just a certain amount of romano for tangy flavor, and specific type of mozarella for gooey-ness. Some places are better at getting this right than others, but inevitably if they get close on the cheese, they screw up the sauce or the crust.

Pepperoni is allowed, but optional. That's it. There are no other toppings.
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If they called the stuff in Chicago "Azzip" rather than "Pizza" would you still consider it an abomination? I see no reason you can't love (or at least tolerate) both. I like them both, but for very different reasons.
 
steingar said:
I make them about once a year. I boil them in lye too. They come out very yummy. It is a lot of work though, since it's a shaped and par-boiled bread. Worth it though. I made naan last night. Boy is it yummy.
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asicer said:
Cooked in a tandoor? It just doesn't seem to be the same without it.
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I baled them on a grill turned up as hot as it will go. Above 450 °F or more. They bake in only a minute, literally. The hot grill is as close as I can come to a tandoor.
 
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wsuffa said:
Meh. Start them the night before, slow rise in the fridge and less than an hour after that. Couple of hours total. What else will you do being incarcerated in your house until the restrictions are lifted?

Chain-store and grocery store bagels don't cut it. When I was going to NY often, I'd bring some back (if I didn't eat them on the train, meaning a stop at Zaro's at Penn Station for some other snack, too.

Define "good pizza". Some will say NY, some will say Chicago, some will say Mystic, but personally my favorite is stuff you get in Italy (and a few other places in Europe). The Italian Store does a passable pizza and it's not far from me.
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I was once near Pompeii, near the volcano and had a pizza there. It was just like some pizza I had in New York. I like Chicago style, too. I bake my own sometimes, on the grill. I have a stone, and turn the heat up as much as possible. Bakes in only 5 minutes at most.
 
People are passionate about their pizza. It's always fun to tweake ScottM about NY pizza.

And there is nothing like eating pizza in Pisa. Sicilian pizza is different than pizza in Naples.
 
wsuffa said:
People are passionate about their pizza. It's always fun to tweake ScottM about NY pizza.

And there is nothing like eating pizza in Pisa. Sicilian pizza is different than pizza in Naples.
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Yep, Scott takes his Chicago pizza seriously.

Assuming you aren't making a rhyming joke, What kind of pizza is in Pisa? That's a long way off from Sicily.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Whatever that abomination they make in Chicago is, it isn't pizza. It's a f--in casserole.

First, it's going to be at least 16" diameter, probably more like 20". Thin crust. Just the right amount of crispy crunch, but not too much. The sauce - not much, and not a strong flavor. The sauce is to lubricate the space between the cheese and the crust.

The cheese. I don't know what it is about the cheese, but it seems to me it is a very specific, unique blend to the NY area. Just a certain amount of romano for tangy flavor, and specific type of mozarella for gooey-ness. Some places are better at getting this right than others, but inevitably if they get close on the cheese, they screw up the sauce or the crust.

Pepperoni is allowed, but optional. That's it. There are no other toppings.
Click to expand...

wsuffa said:
People are passionate about their pizza. It's always fun to tweake ScottM about NY pizza.

And there is nothing like eating pizza in Pisa. Sicilian pizza is different than pizza in Naples.
Click to expand...

Best pizza I've ever had was in Florence (that doesn't mean there may not be better elsewhere, as mine is a rather small sample size ;) )

As Jeff above describes. Thin crust, perfect crispness, with a hint of olive oil, tomato sauce and cheese. Nothing else. Flavors were intense and perfectly balanced with every savoured bite. Could not believe something that simple could taste so unbelievably good (and memorable).

A northern European on an Italian train heading to Genoa said to me "The Italians think they are cooks, and they aren't, and the French think they are chefs, and they aren't". :eek:
 
My son is opening a bakery in OR soon so we get all the fresh baked goods daily in this Pandemic. Good for the soul...not the belly
 
asicer said:
Cooked in a tandoor? It just doesn't seem to be the same without it.
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I used a heavy cast iron skillet, ungreased. I put it on the highest heat I could generate on the cook top, and let it warm up for a long time. A tandoori oven might be hotter than that, but not by much. The results were spectacular. I don't think they took a minute each to cook.
 
It's all just bread dough. Even before this pandemic began I started baking bread 2-3 times a week, just because I couldn't stomach the insipid crap they sell at the supermarket. Make a double batch in the stand mixer, bake half and put the other half in the fridge in a plastic bag. It'll last a couple days. Have it on hand for pizza, pita's, Kaiser rolls, bread... whatever. Plus, the house smells great.

The 25 lb sacks at Costco make a much better product than the 10lb sacks of all-purpose.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Whatever that abomination they make in Chicago is, it isn't pizza. It's a f--in casserole.

First, it's going to be at least 16" diameter, probably more like 20". Thin crust. Just the right amount of crispy crunch, but not too much. The sauce - not much, and not a strong flavor. The sauce is to lubricate the space between the cheese and the crust.

The cheese. I don't know what it is about the cheese, but it seems to me it is a very specific, unique blend to the NY area. Just a certain amount of romano for tangy flavor, and specific type of mozarella for gooey-ness. Some places are better at getting this right than others, but inevitably if they get close on the cheese, they screw up the sauce or the crust.

Pepperoni is allowed, but optional. That's it. There are no other toppings.
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That's cheese bread. Pizza has toppings.
 
eman1200 said:
actually I briefly worked at Lena's Pizza in Hartford when I was in college. by far some of the best dang pizza evarrrrrrrr.
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I grew up in the Hartford 'burbs. Lot of good Italian joints in Hartford's South End.
 
My wife has been making bagels the last year or so. Much better than any of the local options.

CXAbmoD.jpg
 
Dave Theisen said:
You are making me craving a Franklin Giant Grinder chicken parm! :)
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You must have been to Nino's just up the street. And the Italian Fest...

Hartford was a rockin' town in the late 80's.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I was once near Pompeii, near the volcano and had a pizza there. It was just like some pizza I had in New York.
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The pizzaiolo probably was from Brooklyn.

But seriously, folks... Lots of pizzamakers from NYC set up shop elsewhere and choose names that reflect their New York City origins. We have a few within a 50-mile radius of where I live, and I've found them as far away as the Adirondacks. I also found one in Indiana who claimed to be from New York, but I have my doubts because he included plastic forks and knives in the box.

The one thing the expat pizzamakers can't exactly duplicate is the water, which is believed to affect the taste and texture of bread and is often credited for the superiority of NYC bagels and pizza over all others. It's kind of strange because this is where the water comes from, but it's not quite the same. My guess is that it picks up some minerals while flowing through the water tunnels.

Rich
 
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