Hollywood Sightseeing Flight Goes Wrong...

Always lock the door!!

Thanks for sharing the video, we can always learn from each other.. on one of my flights I had not closed the Cirrus door hard enough and another plane in there run up area advised that the door was open.. I feel like I returned the favor a few months later when an Archer taxied by and the door was flapping lol

RE: click bait
"Baggage door opens in flight!"
vs
"Flight goes wrong!"

one is factual and tells the audience what they're about to watch, the other leaves something up to the unknown, like maybe they crashed!.. in a desire to attract attention
^not that there's anything wrong with that, and in a world where views and traffic are everything to the YouTube algorithms I can understand that

But there's a difference..
 
eman1200 said:
so you're saying a door latch on a cherokee 140 or cessna 172 is simpler or less prone to unlatching? gotcha.
Click to expand...

Right on. And a 172 has two doors to worry about! Twice the complexity - door wise, anyway. Twice the danger.

No, @FlyingMonkey, you should heed @Larry Vrooman’s advice. Come out east and sell me that beautiful Cherokee Six!

Better yet, keep making entertaining videos showing you and your family enjoying flying. As an aircraft owner, dad and husband I enjoy them.
 
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Larry Vrooman said:
Eric, you are the same guy who had the cabin door pop open near Sedona right?

If so, there's an unhealthy pattern developing here.

....
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Having watched both videos, I didn’t come to this conclusion nor is a Cherokee Six a problem for the pilot. The only criticism you can levy in the Sedona door issue was him not insisting that his passenger leave the door alone while he went back to land.
 
TrueCourse said:
Having watched both videos, I didn’t come to this conclusion nor is a Cherokee Six a problem for the pilot. The only criticism you can levy in the Sedona door issue was him not insisting that his passenger leave the door alone while he went back to land.
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I've flown in a Cherokee Six with absolutely god-awful door and baggage latches and locks that all either refuse to close properly or take many multiple attempts to get it just right.
 
Larry Vrooman said:
Eric, you are the same guy who had the cabin door pop open near Sedona right?

If so, there's an unhealthy pattern developing here.

To me it suggests one of two things, neither one of which is all that charitable - my apologies in advance:

1) You need to reconsider what you are doing in aviation as you apparently have some behavior patterns that make you very incident prone; or
2) You're working hard (consciously or otherwise) to create material that is video worthy.

If it's Number 1, maybe a Cherokee Six is a little too complex for your present ability level and you might want to back off a bit and fly something simpler and less task loading both on the ground and in the air.

I had a flight surgeon once who hung up his wings after a number of incidents like this when he recognized he was just too distracted most of the time to be able to focus on flying. I had another flight surgeon who was just as distracted but didn't recognize the issue. he crashed his 210 about a mile short of the runway on an instrument approach.
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Larry Vrooman said:
Eric, you are the same guy who had the cabin door pop open near Sedona right?

If so, there's an unhealthy pattern developing here.

To me it suggests one of two things, neither one of which is all that charitable - my apologies in advance:

1) You need to reconsider what you are doing in aviation as you apparently have some behavior patterns that make you very incident prone; or
2) You're working hard (consciously or otherwise) to create material that is video worthy.

If it's Number 1, maybe a Cherokee Six is a little too complex for your present ability level and you might want to back off a bit and fly something simpler and less task loading both on the ground and in the air.

I had a flight surgeon once who hung up his wings after a number of incidents like this when he recognized he was just too distracted most of the time to be able to focus on flying. I had another flight surgeon who was just as distracted but didn't recognize the issue. he crashed his 210 about a mile short of the runway on an instrument approach.
Click to expand...

Had to check my browser address- I thought for a minute I had logged in to reddit. LOL.
 
Tantalum said:
Always lock the door!!

Thanks for sharing the video, we can always learn from each other.. on one of my flights I had not closed the Cirrus door hard enough and another plane in there run up area advised that the door was open.. I feel like I returned the favor a few months later when an Archer taxied by and the door was flapping lol

RE: click bait
"Baggage door opens in flight!"
vs
"Flight goes wrong!"

one is factual and tells the audience what they're about to watch, the other leaves something up to the unknown, like maybe they crashed!.. in a desire to attract attention
^not that there's anything wrong with that, and in a world where views and traffic are everything to the YouTube algorithms I can understand that

But there's a difference..
Click to expand...
Yeah I get it...which is why on POA in the thread's first sentence I specify exactly what happened and in the description of the youtube video I specify what happened as well. So you know what it actually is before clicking through. But I get it- I struggle with titles that will attract an audience AND satisfy them in the end.
 
great video and thanks for sharing. i should start locking my baggage door as well. always thought the latch would hold, and it have ...but who knows
 
I didn't expect my comment to go over well with the OP or with a number of other people in the thread.

Keep in mind however, that one incident with a door coming open in flight is just that - a single incident. Having a similar event happen again now makes it a pattern that *should* compel the person to change whatever pattern of behavior is causing the repeated event.

I'm hoping the OP realizes he needs to not just ensure all the latches on his Cherokee Six door engage, but also that the baggage door is not just latched but also locked. And in the bigger picture that he needs to be very cognizant of the need to recognize potential failure points and pay more attention to those details.

----

Sometimes it's hard to acknowledge that there is more involved than just "stuff happens" - and then patting ourselves on the back for managing it well, while glossing over the prevention aspects. I was discussing a series of incidents with someone in my office when I almost literally saw the light bulb go off. He then nodded, sighed, and said:

"During my third divorce, I looked around the courtroom and realized I was the only person who was present at all three of them. I realized that in one way or another, I was at least partly responsible for all of them. You're saying it's the same thing here. You're right."

That's personal growth and the first step toward not making a similar mistake in the future. "Stuff" does indeed "happen". What's important is how you respond to it to keep similar "stuff" it from "happening" in the future.

We can all choose to either take ownership and positive control of the events that lead up to accidents and incidents and prevent them, or we can continue to just let stuff happen. It's our choice. Choose wisely.
 
Although your reasoning can be applied to some situations I don't see it working here. The first problem was a cockpit door (closed by the passenger) not closing completely, compounded by said passenger thinking she had a solution. The second problem, 10 months later after many many flights, was a baggage door opening. I wouldn't consider that a pattern.
 
Larry Vrooman said:
I didn't expect my comment to go over well with the OP or with a number of other people in the thread.

Keep in mind however, that one incident with a door coming open in flight is just that - a single incident. Having a similar event happen again now makes it a pattern that *should* compel the person to change whatever pattern of behavior is causing the repeated event.
Click to expand...
Really, the second time something happens, is a pattern? Cherokee passenger doors are notorious for not latching. The cargo door latch is a bit different and not sure we know the root cause. What I saw was someone reflecting on what happened, how it happened and things they could do different to prevent it as well as reflecting on how to handle it (e.g. declare or not). I don't see him as anything but responsible and humble, a very healthy attitude to doing things like flying. I would contrast that with a certain someone who regularly flails around in IMC and doesn't perceive it to be a problem. (rhymes with hairy bagner :) ). That person is scary and gets deserved comments about fixing things that he regularly ignores.
 
Jesus! Anything to get someone to watch your videos. How long until something bad really happens? I cant even watch them anymore cause they are like trying to up the drama....

click bait is all it is
 
YT have so many cat videos. not entirely sure why people choose to see a video and then come here to meow
 
GMascelli said:
Maybe there should be a separate thread for people to post their videos. That way if people don’t want to watch they don’t have to go there.

Some of us enjoy watching videos. I like getting to see different locations and airports, along with avionics and the different aircraft.
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LOL, I missed the POA ToS item that requires you to watch every YouTube video linked in a thread and comment. :)
 
jd21476 said:
Jesus! Anything to get someone to watch your videos. How long until something bad really happens? I cant even watch them anymore cause they are like trying to up the drama....

click bait is all it is
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It's not clickbait if you're a PA32 driver who's curious what happens when the forward cargo door pops open in flight. Looks pretty accurately labeled video to me.
 
bnt83 said:
That's one thing I like about our little cessnas, you could leave any or all the doors unlatched and fly them and they wouldn't care. Not like others where the door pops then departs and hits the horizonal or vertical stabilizer on the way by, causing thousands of $ in damages.
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a88bf75e63b0f0f9c370c7291039e93a.jpg
 
Larry Vrooman said:
Eric, you are the same guy who had the cabin door pop open near Sedona right?

If so, there's an unhealthy pattern developing here.

To me it suggests one of two things, neither one of which is all that charitable - my apologies in advance:

1) You need to reconsider what you are doing in aviation as you apparently have some behavior patterns that make you very incident prone; or
2) You're working hard (consciously or otherwise) to create material that is video worthy.

If it's Number 1, maybe a Cherokee Six is a little too complex for your present ability level and you might want to back off a bit and fly something simpler and less task loading both on the ground and in the air.

I had a flight surgeon once who hung up his wings after a number of incidents like this when he recognized he was just too distracted most of the time to be able to focus on flying. I had another flight surgeon who was just as distracted but didn't recognize the issue. he crashed his 210 about a mile short of the runway on an instrument approach.
Click to expand...
I think it is more likely flying 40-50year old aircraft. Things break, don't work right etc. Now if there were a couple of landing incidents, runway excursions, etc then maybe
 
Larry Vrooman said:
I didn't expect my comment to go over well with the OP or with a number of other people in the thread.

Keep in mind however, that one incident with a door coming open in flight is just that - a single incident. Having a similar event happen again now makes it a pattern that *should* compel the person to change whatever pattern of behavior is causing the repeated event.

I'm hoping the OP realizes he needs to not just ensure all the latches on his Cherokee Six door engage, but also that the baggage door is not just latched but also locked. And in the bigger picture that he needs to be very cognizant of the need to recognize potential failure points and pay more attention to those details.

----

Sometimes it's hard to acknowledge that there is more involved than just "stuff happens" - and then patting ourselves on the back for managing it well, while glossing over the prevention aspects. I was discussing a series of incidents with someone in my office when I almost literally saw the light bulb go off. He then nodded, sighed, and said:

"During my third divorce, I looked around the courtroom and realized I was the only person who was present at all three of them. I realized that in one way or another, I was at least partly responsible for all of them. You're saying it's the same thing here. You're right."

That's personal growth and the first step toward not making a similar mistake in the future. "Stuff" does indeed "happen". What's important is how you respond to it to keep similar "stuff" it from "happening" in the future.

We can all choose to either take ownership and positive control of the events that lead up to accidents and incidents and prevent them, or we can continue to just let stuff happen. It's our choice. Choose wisely.
Click to expand...
OK fair point. We should all try to learn from our mistakes. How do we caution FlyingMonkey about making sure he is double checking all potential gotchas without coming off as douchebags. A friend in person on the ground can do it more graciously that we can in a text based forum. I look at all of these posts as a potential learning opportunity- there but for the grace of God go I.
 
Larry Vrooman said:
I didn't expect my comment to go over well with the OP or with a number of other people in the thread.

Keep in mind however, that one incident with a door coming open in flight is just that - a single incident. Having a similar event happen again now makes it a pattern that *should* compel the person to change whatever pattern of behavior is causing the repeated event.

I'm hoping the OP realizes he needs to not just ensure all the latches on his Cherokee Six door engage, but also that the baggage door is not just latched but also locked. And in the bigger picture that he needs to be very cognizant of the need to recognize potential failure points and pay more attention to those details.

----

Sometimes it's hard to acknowledge that there is more involved than just "stuff happens" - and then patting ourselves on the back for managing it well, while glossing over the prevention aspects. I was discussing a series of incidents with someone in my office when I almost literally saw the light bulb go off. He then nodded, sighed, and said:

"During my third divorce, I looked around the courtroom and realized I was the only person who was present at all three of them. I realized that in one way or another, I was at least partly responsible for all of them. You're saying it's the same thing here. You're right."

That's personal growth and the first step toward not making a similar mistake in the future. "Stuff" does indeed "happen". What's important is how you respond to it to keep similar "stuff" it from "happening" in the future.

We can all choose to either take ownership and positive control of the events that lead up to accidents and incidents and prevent them, or we can continue to just let stuff happen. It's our choice. Choose wisely.
Click to expand...

Larry, I get what you're saying and am thinking deeply to consider it. For real. I am not likely to agree with it, but I am cracking my mind wide open to let it in.

I believe your intentions are to be helpful, although that is a stretch for the #2 in your first post. But I am a big fan of giving the benefit of the doubt. While we are reflecting I would just like to note that when you made your comments, by your own admission, you did not expect it to go over well. I ask in return for my thoughtful consideration of your comment that you could thoughtfully consider posting comments with less hyperbole, cynicism, or unprovoked animus so that others may receive the messages you wish to communicate. If you truly want to reach someone, you could phrase things in a way that they are more likely to be well received. It is a shame when good intentions get lost in poor packaging. I tend not to get too worked up about what others think or say about me, even when they are accusing me of something particularly egregious like the #2 in your first post, so no matter what I'll still do my part to be completely receptive to criticism, no matter how it is delivered. Your mileage may vary with others.

-Eric
 
Brad Z said:
LOL, I missed the POA ToS item that requires you to watch every YouTube video linked in a thread and comment. :)
Click to expand...
I think it was in a Chief Counsel letter. ;)
 
This has never happened to me, baggage door opened in flight, but I came close, leaving the door open and was saved by a line man. My solution, the plane I fly, like most I've flown, uses a key to lock the door closed. The key ring has the ignition key and door key on it. So I leave the key in the door lock any time the baggage door is open. If I forget to close the baggage door, then I have no key to start the airplane. Works every time.
 
My baggage door is a non-event. It just sort of gently flaps in the slipstream. Having the canopy opening is a bit more unnerving (noisy as all git out), but not very dangerous (it's not going to come open more than an inch or so, it's near impossible to even pull it further because of the aerodynamics in play).
 
Larry Vrooman said:
I'm hoping the OP realizes he needs to not just ensure all the latches on his Cherokee Six door engage, but also that the baggage door is not just latched but also locked. And in the bigger picture that he needs to be very cognizant of the need to recognize potential failure points and pay more attention to those
...
We can all choose to either take ownership and positive control of the events that lead up to accidents and incidents and prevent them, or we can continue to just let stuff happen. It's our choice. Choose wisely.
Click to expand...

Is closing and latching the passenger door part of the checklist in this plane? Is closing and locking the baggage door part of the checklist in this plane?

If so, I think I see Larry’s point as a failure of checklist discipline. Don’t remember if it was mentioned as such in the video. And a failure of checklist discipline can be fatal in aviation. That might account for some of the strong feelings expressed (perhaps not kindly enough).

If they are not part of the checklists, perhaps they should be?
 
Larry Vrooman said:
I didn't expect my comment to go over well with the OP or with a number of other people in the thread.

Keep in mind however, that one incident with a door coming open in flight is just that - a single incident. Having a similar event happen again now makes it a pattern that *should* compel the person to change whatever pattern of behavior is causing the repeated event.

I'm hoping the OP realizes he needs to not just ensure all the latches on his Cherokee Six door engage, but also that the baggage door is not just latched but also locked. And in the bigger picture that he needs to be very cognizant of the need to recognize potential failure points and pay more attention to those details.

----

Sometimes it's hard to acknowledge that there is more involved than just "stuff happens" - and then patting ourselves on the back for managing it well, while glossing over the prevention aspects. I was discussing a series of incidents with someone in my office when I almost literally saw the light bulb go off. He then nodded, sighed, and said:

"During my third divorce, I looked around the courtroom and realized I was the only person who was present at all three of them. I realized that in one way or another, I was at least partly responsible for all of them. You're saying it's the same thing here. You're right."

That's personal growth and the first step toward not making a similar mistake in the future. "Stuff" does indeed "happen". What's important is how you respond to it to keep similar "stuff" it from "happening" in the future.

We can all choose to either take ownership and positive control of the events that lead up to accidents and incidents and prevent them, or we can continue to just let stuff happen. It's our choice. Choose wisely.
Click to expand...

I think you are right on. Quite a few of these prolific Youtube pilots document a concerning amount of mechanical issues, NMAC events, in-flight emergencies or near emergencies, and flight into unsafe or unadvisable weather conditions. Some have published more inflight issues in the span of a few months than I have experienced in 1000 hours of flying. It's hard not to reach the conclusion that there is a pattern of concerning behavior.

I won't go so far as to imply some of these videos are staged, but taking risks to generate more views is pretty undeniable. The Kodak courage (GoPro courage?) phenomenon is very real.
 
Personally I think Youtubers post the near emergencies and emergencies because it gets more views that "gorgeous local flight where nothing noteworthy happened". Takes a lot of effort to make those videos (though Eric does it better than almost anyone else I've seen). Those making them want them seen, and I can't blame them.
 
My interpretation of what Larry was suggesting is that if "gorgeous local flight where nothing noteworthy happened" isn't the description of the vast majority of a pilot's flights, there might be a problem. And that does make for generally boring YouTube content.
 
Htaylor said:
207s are kinda notorious for the front baggage door popping open. OK, very notorious. There are more than a few cans of Coke in the water around SE Alaska.:D
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Pepsi is the 1 in NW Alaska. I have carried more than a few plane loads of nothing but Pepsi. I tried slipping in a triple mailer of Dr Pepper once and it didn't go over very well...
 
reminds me of this guy. click-bait central!

 
Cervieres said:
I won't go so far as to imply some of these videos are staged, but taking risks to generate more views is pretty undeniable. The Kodak courage (GoPro courage?) phenomenon is very real.
Click to expand...

I think some people may do this. I try to do the opposite. If I know that the flight will be particularly challenging- marginal weather, a lot of first time passengers or nervous flyers I make a point to NOT roll the cameras. It is just one more thing that could be potentially distracting. You may notice that during flights in these videos where something out of the ordinary happens, I am not narrating what is going on in the moment. I am not addressing the camera at all in the moment. If it happens to get captured that's fine, but there are no situations in my flying where I have or would purposefully seek out a difficult situation just for making a stupid youtube video. (I do address camera high up in cruise or when doing a product review or explanation).

I went to do some IMC practice to lower my personal mins on a day with precip and 400' ceilings at a local airport. Would that have made good content? Probably. But I didn't bring cameras along on purpose. I went on a night currency flight and did some VFR practice approaches at night after not flying at night for a very long time. Probably would have been a solid video since I have the equipment and skill to make an amazing looking night flight video and the night currency and practice approaches could be interesting. Didn't shoot that one either. I wasn't even planning on shooting this one- you can see 2 empty GoPro frames in one of the shots- I usually roll 3 more angles...I think aviation is interesting enough without having to do stupid risky stuff. I enjoy taking a small moment and expressing how I felt in the moment in a stylized way...like experiencing a little spatial disorientation for a few seconds and explaining and expressing what that actually feels like through all the tools I have as a filmmaker...or depicting how it feels when an airplane on your ADSB display just looks like it's going to collide. It doesn't have to be dry and literal or sensationalist on the other hand. It can exist in between in a subjective place.
 
FlyingMonkey said:
The forward baggage door popped open on a recent sightseeing flight over Hollywood. Hope this video is a useful reminder of the power of a good preflight!


Eric

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Thanks for the video. Glad it ended well.
Can you post another video of the Hollywood sign tour.
 
Larry Vrooman said:
Eric, you are the same guy who had the cabin door pop open near Sedona right?

If so, there's an unhealthy pattern developing here.

1) You need to reconsider what you are doing in aviation as you apparently have some behavior patterns that make you very incident prone; or
Click to expand...

Must be pretty awesome to be perfect and not make any errors in judgement.

FlyingMonkey, I think you handled it well. Didn’t panic. Chose a simpler path to Whiteman rather than potentially create a headache at one of the busiest Class C airports in the country which is literally next door. Landed without incident. Good job sir.
 
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