Holding pattern or not?

jssmith.lh

jssmith.lh

Pre-Flight
Joined
May 29, 2015
Messages
59
Location
Central Texas
Display Name
Display name:
Goldthwaite flyer
Dumb question from a newby.... So I'm on a instrument flight plan in contact with ATC but not on radar. They clear me direct to the middle part of the T on an RNAV approach and cleared for the approach. I'm a few miles from the T end but in that direction. The approach plate shows a hold if not entering from one of the T ends. Should I have performed the hold? If I'm coming from that direction and a hold is required, why wouldn't I just request entry at the T end? BTW, when doing my IR training I was on a flight plan in radar and had the same situation. Didn't do the hold and the instructor didn't say anything. Thought I would double check against the far greater knowledge here :->
 
Can you show an example approach please?
 
Every approach I've seen shows NoPT somewhere if not approaching from the airport side of the center fix. Unless you have to make more than a 90 degree turn from your position to final, very rarely is a course reversal required.
 
http://www.faraim.org/aim/aim-4-03-14-336.html

Using MUGYU as your IAF, there is a HILPT depicted. However, the lower left of the plan view shows a diagram that indicates "NoPT" if you are arriving at MUGYU from 181° clockwise to 001°. Using MUGYU as your IAF and coming from the northeast, east, or southeast of MUGYU would require execution of the HILPT.
 
I skipped a procedure turn in a training approach, oops. The tower asked me if I was IFR, which I was, but said nothing else. I should have done it, crappy brief on my part. Lesson learned. That said, nine times out of ten they give vectors to final around here, you have to ask for the procedure turn if you want one.
 
Here's the plate. X marks where I was when cleared direct PEQIS and cleared for the approach.
upload_2019-1-15_17-24-30.png
 
So yep, NoPT required from where I was arriving from. Also missed that on the brief.....
 
If I were at the X you depicted, not being vectored, I would expect a clearance PEQUIS, cross PEQUIS at or above 4000, cleared Brownwood RNAV 35 approach. Once within 30 nm of PEQUIS, I would descend to 4000 and complete the approach without a procedure turn.
 
Clip4 said:
If I were at the X you depicted, not being vectored, I would expect a clearance PEQUIS, cross PEQUIS at or above 4000, cleared Brownwood RNAV 35 approach. Once within 30 nm of PEQUIS, I would descend to 4000 and complete the approach without a procedure turn.
Click to expand...
He’s north of the fix, needs to go south to PEQUIS, and the approach is northbound, so he needs to get turned around after reaching the fix. I would think the HILPT would be needed.
 
BillTIZ said:
He’s north of the fix, needs to go south to PEQUIS, and the approach is northbound, so he needs to get turned around after reaching the fix. I would think the HILPT would be needed.
Click to expand...
I think the 'X' is with respect to the approach course and not with respect to sector inset (i.e. it's southeast of OKUTY and not north of PEQUIS).

I made the same mistake at first glance as well.
 
I'm confused reading the replies.

Clip4 said:
If I were at the X you depicted, not being vectored, I would expect a clearance PEQUIS, cross PEQUIS at or above 4000, cleared Brownwood RNAV 35 approach. Once within 30 nm of PEQUIS, I would descend to 4000 and complete the approach without a procedure turn.
Click to expand...
This. Coming from south of PEQUIS, this is the type of clearance I would expect. [edited to correct by deleting the rest of the paragraph]

From the north, given direct PEQUIS, yes, you would do the PT, but I'd come back with a request to proceed FICCU or OKUTY if that made more sense.
 
Last edited:
I was in the area south of PEQIS. Clearance was cleared direct PEQIS, maintain 4000 until established on a published segment, cleared for RNAV 35 approach.
 
jssmith.lh said:
I was in the area south of PEQIS. Clearance was cleared direct PEQIS, maintain 4000 until established on a published segment, cleared for RNAV 35 approach.
Click to expand...
You were coming in via a NoPT quadrant (semi-circle, actually) so a procedure turn was not required, expected, or even authorized. I think you already got that figured out.

Since you self-describe as an IFR newbie, I'll add (even if it doesn't apply) that I see a lot of pilots who brief a lot of numbers but don't take the time to look at the plan view, which I think is the part if the chart giving the most overall situational awareness.

100EB9D5-5C7C-4DE9-8A25-821159C86D17.jpeg
 
Last edited:
chemgeek said:
If you were north of PEQIS then the HILPT would be required for course reversal, yes? If south of PEQIS NoPT is required.
Click to expand...

IF arriving from the north side you go to FICCU if northwest and OKUITY if northeast and are still NoPT. Many of the more recent TAA IAPs don't have this option; i.e., no T legs.
 
aterpster said:
IF arriving from the north side you go to FICCU if northwest and OKUITY if northeast and are still NoPT. Many of the more recent TAA IAPs don't have this option; i.e., no T legs.
Click to expand...

Except the controller can send you where he desires to maintain separation. I just go where the controller clears me.
 
Clip4 said:
Except the controller can send you where he desires to maintain separation. I just go where the controller clears me.
Click to expand...
I was speaking of procedure design. Controllers do all kinds of things not envisioned by the criteria designers. And, the AIM section on TAAs does explain that ATC may constrain your use of the three arrival areas.
 
aterpster said:
I was speaking of procedure design. Controllers do all kinds of things not envisioned by the criteria designers. And, the AIM section on TAAs does explain that ATC may constrain your use of the three arrival areas.
Click to expand...

Sure beats holding because a plane on approach at a neighboring airport has the airspace tied up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top