Hershey Bar Cherokee sinks faster than Archer...

When I was a student way back in the day, I was never able to make consistently nice landings in the Cherokee 140. Then the FBO brought in the "new" Warrior with the tapered wings. It was night and day. Looking back on that experience, I think the Cherokee (Hershey bar) was very sensitive to pitch change. I guess an aeronautical engineer would say the coefficient of lift changed rapidly with AOA.
 
IIRC the “ 180 “ sequence went:

Hershey. - 180, Challenger, Archer ( fuselage changes)

Taper. - The Archer II on utilized the long taper wing.

Kinda thinking the Useful Load was higher for the Hershey Bar. Odd.

I am lucky in that I can fly one just as bad as the other !
 
Racerx said:
You talk like it hasn't been 8 years since flying bricks was brought up
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Look at that. I got sucked into a necropost, too. We really need ancient threads to turn red or something.
 
Hershey bar Cherokee for sure does not require power to land. Teaching styles these days just create pilots who are uncomfortable with approaches steeper than the 3 degree dragged in airliner approach.
 
RoscoeT said:
Hershey bar Cherokee for sure does not require power to land. Teaching styles these days just create pilots who are uncomfortable with approaches steeper than the 3 degree dragged in airliner approach.
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I agree. You don't need any power to land a Cherokee 140-180 nicely. (I don't have enough experience with the 235 to include that one.)
 
Racerx said:
You talk like it hasn't been 8 years since flying bricks was brought up
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I'll do you one better. I was reading the thread, not noticing the dates, and I "liked" an 8yo post!
 
Well, to be fair, the landing characteristics of hershey bar Cherokees haven't changed much in the past 10 years. I kinda love the way they land at idle power. I transitioned to those from cubs. The idea of an airplane that went from "airplane mode" to "driving a cement mixer mode" pretty much as soon as you had the wheels down was pretty relaxing.
 
Albany Tom said:
Well, to be fair, the landing characteristics of hershey bar Cherokees haven't changed much in the past 10 years. I kinda love the way they land at idle power. I transitioned to those from cubs. The idea of an airplane that went from "airplane mode" to "driving a cement mixer mode" pretty much as soon as you had the wheels down was pretty relaxing.
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TBH, anything below 1/2 throttle travel is "cement mixer mode" in a Hersey-Bar PA-28 or PA-32. :p
 
Albany Tom said:
Well, to be fair, the landing characteristics of hershey bar Cherokees haven't changed much in the past 10 years. I kinda love the way they land at idle power. I transitioned to those from cubs. The idea of an airplane that went from "airplane mode" to "driving a cement mixer mode" pretty much as soon as you had the wheels down was pretty relaxing.
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Pilawt said:
TBH, anything below 1/2 throttle travel is "cement mixer mode" in a Hersey-Bar PA-28 or PA-32. :p
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Wait, are we being fair, or are we being honest? I'm confused....
 
Glides like a lead plated brick. Has anyone’s ever actually done a forward slip in a Rokee? Dey come down, son!
 
texasclouds said:
Glides like a lead plated brick. Has anyone’s ever actually done a forward slip in a Rokee? Dey come down, son!
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One of my favorite things to do when checking someone out in a hershey-bar wing Cherokee is to have them fly the pattern, but stay at pattern altitude on base and final until the runway just disappears under the nose. So, 1000 ft AGL on short final. Then pull the power to idle, go full flaps, slip if necessary, and still touch down prior to the 1000 ft markers. This is easily done with our normal wind condition of a 15 kt headwind without any real effort. Heck, I've had flights where the pilot had to add power back in to make the runway.

It's a lot of fun, nobody thinks we're actually going to make it down in time, and it's important to know the full capabilities of any airplane (for example, if you have to put it down in a small clearing after an engine failure).
 
I learned to fly exclusively in various models of Cessnas. Later in life I moved into "Piper territory" and had to transition. Most of my original Piper time was in a Hershey bar 140, but one day I was tasked with ferrying a taper winged Archer II. My destination had a relatively short runway, so I planned for a tight pattern and short field landing, but on base realized I just wasn't losing altitude like I thought. Once on final I realized this wasn't working and went around. The Airport Manager, who I knew well, called on the Unicom and asked "You going to come down or we going to have to shoot you down?"
 
Hobobiker said:
Posting this in the training area since I'm a new pilot and just got to practice in the club plane for the first time solo last night. Having trained in an Archer with tapered wings, it was easy to drop power to idle after having the runway "made" and it would still tend to ease into ground effect and float down nicely. In fact, for those who read my thread on pursuing my license I even posted about fighting the "float" on landing. Last night I spent the evening just in the pattern to get a handle on how the club plane, a 1966 Hershey Bar winged Cherokee, likes to land. I noticed that, for me anyway, it likes a little more power during landing (1000-1200 rpm or so) and also doesn't pay as much attention to ground effect. In fact, it seemed like it just preferred to drop right through ground effect altogether, which I finally realized around my 2nd or 3rd landing. I had some nice stall-light landings before I took her back to the barn, but she definitely handled a little different than the Archer where I spent about 68 hours of my training time. (I broke 70 hours last nigh...WooHoo!)

No real question here other than to post for other students an example of two similar planes handling a bit differently. An hour or two of transition time and it should be the "new" normal...
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You observations are pretty accurate, I tend to fly the Hershey Bar Cherokees a lot more than the Taper Wing versions. The Trick to Hershey Bar Cherokee's is energy, either speed or power. If you come in slow you are going need some power to arrest the descent because as you get slow they start dropping fast with the power off. Or come in a bit faster with the power off, about 90mph (80knot) Final and aim a bit shorter and you will have plenty of energy to stop in the ground effect for a few seconds to set it on nicely. Less flaps power off, will also give you be more time and help you get the nose up for the touch down.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
cowman said:
I went from an Archer to a Piper Lance which is a jumbo(heavier) hershey bar wing Cherokee basically. If you chop power on short final in that bird you will drop so hard you'll be inspecting the gear on landing. I've quickly learned to err on the side of being a bit too high on final- that situation will just about fix it's self.
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I haven't flown the Lance, but do have a little bit of time in a Cherokee 6. Of the 130+ types I have flown the Cherokee 6 and the Viking (it has been a few years) have had the most impressive power off descent profiles. I recall both manuals say for emergency procedures, to pull the prop back to Low RPM to improve the glide which noticeably helps, but you still better have 100mph + coming over the fence to be able to arrest the descent power off.

Brian
CFIIIG/ASEL
 
Dan Thomas said:
That's a big part of it. Short winged airplanes have a steeper glide. The tip vortices do that, by flowing over the tip and destroying lift on a portion of the outboard wing. Compare the glide of a Tri-Pacer or Colt to that of a Super Cub or Citabria.
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Yes the Tri-pacer and the Hershey Bar Cherokees (at least the 4 place ones) have almost identical flying characteristics.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
The propensity of the Hersey bar wing to just stop flying all at once is well known. Can be used to advantage but can also catch one unawares. Surprised the operation didn't require a couple times around the pattern first.
 
A buddy of mine landed a Hershey bar winged Cherokee in the ocean off the Florida coast. It floated for something like 15 minutes.

So I’m not sure what the problem is.
 
brcase said:
I haven't flown the Lance, but do have a little bit of time in a Cherokee 6. Of the 130+ types I have flown the Cherokee 6 and the Viking (it has been a few years) have had the most impressive power off descent profiles. I recall both manuals say for emergency procedures, to pull the prop back to Low RPM to improve the glide which noticeably helps, but you still better have 100mph + coming over the fence to be able to arrest the descent power off.

Brian
CFIIIG/ASEL
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yup.....think space shuttle glide path to landing. :D
 
My CFI would not sign anyone off (including me!) in thge PA-32-300 Saratoga II until they demonstrated proficiency in landing at Gross Weight, at book short field speed. The deck angle on short final, and the amount of throttle required are both - interesting! I am sure that is just one reason why the plane had two stall warning systems. Going to full flaps took one stall indicator offline and brought the other stall indicator on line. It did take a fist full of throttle! Everyone at the airport knew when the 'Toga was coming in for a short field landing as the engine/prop noise was announcing the approach! Not a stealth approach, for sure. -Skip
 
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