Help me plan

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onwards

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onwards
Having survived the first couple hundred hours of flying more or less unscathed (not even a balded tire yet - but with a few scares for sure), I am going to stretch a bit again and go on my next grand flying adventure. My longest to date had been a bit over 700nm in one day, which is comparable, but on a round trip. I have flown mountains quite a bit and am comfortable in that sense.

The plane will be a P-Ponk 182 with long range tanks. It has on board oxygen.

The flight will be from KCCR to KSAF and back, next weekend (Friday-Sunday). Both parts of the trip are planned day time VFR assuming weather plays along.

I have never flown directly east that far. I see all sorts of restricted spaces on the charts for one. Not certain how best to deal with them.

Any and all help will be appreciated!
 
You're going to obviously have to fly around them, but there is a corridor more or less direct that you can fly through, but your have to get very high to clear the Eastern range of the Sierras. Alternately you can dogleg your route South past Mammouth for more favorable terrain below the restricted area and fly more or less direct from there.

Bigger issue is weather this time of the year. Don't cross the Sierras unless its a clear VFR day. You may have issues with extended layovers to let weather systems pass.
 
onwards said:
I see all sorts of restricted spaces on the charts for one. Not certain how best to deal with them.
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Plan to go around them, with the option to go through them if they're not active. Get flight following so you're talking to ATC as you approach them, and they can tell you if they're active or not at that time.
 
onwards said:
Having survived the first couple hundred hours of flying more or less unscathed (not even a balded tire yet - but with a few scares for sure), I am going to stretch a bit again and go on my next grand flying adventure. My longest to date had been a bit over 700nm in one day, which is comparable, but on a round trip. I have flown mountains quite a bit and am comfortable in that sense.

The plane will be a P-Ponk 182 with long range tanks. It has on board oxygen.

The flight will be from KCCR to KSAF and back, next weekend (Friday-Sunday). Both parts of the trip are planned day time VFR assuming weather plays along.

I have never flown directly east that far. I see all sorts of restricted spaces on the charts for one. Not certain how best to deal with them.

Any and all help will be appreciated!
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You say that it's a planned day VFR trip. I can't remember if you had mentioned being IFR certified or not. I have found that when traveling to areas with lots of restricted airspace it's easier to file IFR even in day good weather because ATC will handle the restricted airspace issues and reroute you if they are hot.
 
jtheune said:
You say that it's a planned day VFR trip. I can't remember if you had mentioned being IFR certified or not. I have found that when traveling to areas with lots of restricted airspace it's easier to file IFR even in day good weather because ATC will handle the restricted airspace issues and reroute you if they are hot.
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That's true, although MEA's in that region are very high.
 
Yes, the plane is capable to go pretty high (no problem with the sierras for example).

I am not IFR certified yet.

How would you go around them if you had to?
 
onwards said:
How would you go around them if you had to?
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Plot the route around them on your sectional, and fly the black line using pilotage, DR, and any available electronic navigational aids. Getting flight following to back up your nav is also a good idea -- the controllers do not want an incursion to happen on their watch, so they're pretty good about helping you stay out.
 
Thank you. Does it make more sense to go north or south?

The only stuff I seem to have to go through is R4807A and then the desert MOA. I will file a VFR plan and be with ATC - can they clear me through? It seems like Nellis 126.65 controls both - would ATC hand me off to them (like they me put me with Joshua when I flew to big bear through several MOAs) or is there anything more to it because of the R?
 
onwards said:
Yes, the plane is capable to go pretty high (no problem with the sierras for example).

I am not IFR certified yet.

How would you go around them if you had to?
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If the weather was really good: I would start off V244 through the Tioga Pass. To Wilson Creek (ILC), Direct. Southern Nevada East of the Sierras is just, well, desolate, nothing to see might as well cross it quickly.

Alternatively, with questionable weather over the Sierras. Bakersfield, Palmdale, direct.

Just plan to divert over lower terrain if weather becomes a concern. Long trip, I've done it, but I took longer than 2 days.
 
Ha. I looked again - I flew right over Edwards and that's R2515, not MOA. So I guess I have my answer. Presumably if the R is hot they will tell me to go around right?
 
Alexb2000 said:
If the weather was really good: I would start off V244 through the Tioga Pass. To Wilson Creek (ILC), Direct. Southern Nevada East of the Sierras is just, well, desolate, nothing to see might as well cross it quickly.

Alternatively, with questionable weather over the Sierras. Bakersfield, Palmdale, direct.

Just plan to divert over lower terrain if weather becomes a concern. Long trip, I've done it, but I took longer than 2 days.
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Thank you!

It's under 800nm... The plane cruises at 145 or even 150 at altitude (love the pponk). It's not that bad, I've done 700nm in a non pponk 182 in one day and was fine. Single fuel stop which is what I plan here too.
 
onwards said:
Ha. I looked again - I flew right over Edwards and that's R2515, not MOA. So I guess I have my answer. Presumably if the R is hot they will tell me to go around right?
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Basically, yes -- assuming you're getting radar service from them.
 
onwards said:
Thank you!

It's under 800nm... The plane cruises at 145 or even 150 at altitude (love the pponk). It's not that bad, I've done 700nm in a non pponk 182 in one day and was fine. Single fuel stop which is what I plan here too.
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I don't know where you plan to stop. Flagstaff is a fun airport if you haven't been there (southern route). You can walk over to the terminal and grab a bite while they fuel you up. Beautiful place and a fun place to fly.

Santa Fe is in my backyard. Great airport, expensive fuel, cool Southwestern style FBO. The Terminal is a couple of hundred feet from the FBO so rental cars are easy and plentiful. Be cautious of the weather over the mountains on the Western side of KSAF, it produces a lot of ice and turbulence. Divert south around the bottom if it looks at all questionable.
 
Talk to Nellis when you get close. You may get cleared through R4807A on weekends, depending on the weekend, don't plan on it.

You might get through R4809, maybe, weekends only. And again, it depends on the weekend.
Do not expect approval through R4808.

You may find yourself heading south along the restricted border to Las Vegas before you can keep going east.
 
onwards said:
Yes, the plane is capable to go pretty high (no problem with the sierras for example).

I am not IFR certified yet.

How would you go around them if you had to?
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I have taken a Cherokee 140 To and from Kansas flatlands to S. California a dozen times and never had to go over 10,500'-11,500' day vfr. You are not necessarily trying to fly over the peak of each mountain range/area so while the MEA's might be 13-14k' you are not crossing a range over the top of the highest peak. It is very, very doable VFR at lower altitudes.

Realize that flying 3 hrs at 10k' has a cumulative effect on your blood level so you might grab 10 minutes of O2 every 30-40 minutes and definitely put on the air for at least a few minutes about 30 minutes before you plan your decent. Helps clear the head fog.

I use a $50 Ox meter to make sure I am 94+%.
 
onwards said:
You're right. There shouldn't be. So... should I be afraid or too ashamed to ask? :dunno:
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Not at all. I just don't see anything on that route to elicit much doubt. I'm assuming you hold a pilot's certificate and are familiar with airspace regulations. Be a PIC and fly ..... no hoo hoo.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
Not at all. I just don't see anything on that route to elicit much doubt. I'm assuming you hold a pilot's certificate and are familiar with airspace regulations. Be a PIC and fly ..... no hoo hoo.
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Sure... but I like to ask. I've gleaned some useful tidbits from people's responses here already.

So to clarify - does anyone see a problem going north around the R's but through the MOA's? it seems like a fairly straight and simple shot.
 
onwards said:
Sure... but I like to ask. I've gleaned some useful tidbits from people's responses here already.

So to clarify - does anyone see a problem going north around the R's but through the MOA's? it seems like a fairly straight and simple shot.
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The Nellis MOAs or "Desert /Reveille MOA" can be rather busy. Call and talk to Nellis Approach. Depending on when you go, Red Flag will be in town in a couple of weeks, that will put 80-100 jets in that airspace. You may catch the quiet time between Red Flag missions, when only a few jets may be there. Red Flag flies 2 missions per day, but there are other users of the airspace.
 
So I am homing in on kpga as my fuel stop. Anyone familiar?
 
onwards said:
So I am homing in on kpga as my fuel stop. Anyone familiar?
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Was my home base for a few years. Straightforward airport with a run of the mill FBO. There is a crosswind runway for the days the winds are howling though this time of year that would be unlikely.

I will say that in the winter you can get some low ceilings to the west of the airport.

No food on the airport and nearest restaurant is a long walk (or taxi.)

Good place for a winter VFR stop, more reliably VFR in the winter than Flagstaff. I used to regularly fly VFR from PGA to various points in Nevada and Arizona, throughout the winters, for golf.
 
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If you're going to skimming the edges of R-areas, keep in mind that they tend to do things out there that make GPS "unreliable" at times.
Check NOTAMs, keep close eyes on your Sectional and make sure you can navigate the route without GPS. Maybe preselect some VORs and radials that will keep you out of bad places.
 
Knowing there is little meal stop on the airport I would pack fruit and I like the walmart diet chocolate shakes they really give you plenty of energy help prevents fatigue (we are very bad at recognizing our own fatigue until its too late). Another tidbit I like to pack sports drinks for the trip and use the wide mouth bottle as a jonny on the spot.....Just don't drink the lemonade colored bottles. I purposely buy the red, orange or green flavors, not lemonade.

I used to pack nuts but if they get caught in your throat it might not be good so now I just use m&m's or other melt in your mouth sundries. Slim Jims are also good.
 
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Sac Arrow said:
Hahaha! If you GET that far, that would be an accomplishment!
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Ok, so now I looked it up. That's where being an immigrant shows - I had no clue. The Wikipedia page was fascinating. Sounds like a bunch of self important bureaucracy to me but what do I know.

Edit : in fact I'm glad you guys brought it up - I was headed right through that airspace on my way back Sunday. Didn't catch that 4808 was operating Sundays too, all the rest do not.
 
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onwards said:
Ok, so now I looked it up. That's where being an immigrant shows - I had no clue. The Wikipedia page was fascinating. Sounds like a bunch of self important beaurocracy to me but what do I know.

Edit : in fact I'm glad you guys brought it up - I was headed right through that airspace on my way back Sunday. Didn't catch that 4808 was operating Sundays too, all the rest do not.
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I watched a documentary on some sort of quasi-governmental carrier that operates 737's out of McCarren, shuttling people back and forth from Area 51 from their own ramp. Sure enough, the last time I was in Vegas, there was a stream of those planes leaving and arriving. What ever is so secret about the place surely can't be much of a secret anymore.

(And no, you won't get permission to enter that restricted area.)
 
I've been tracking for the past week and looks like the weather is cooperating with this trip... gonna be a clear and cold weekend!
 
onwards said:
I've been tracking for the past week and looks like the weather is cooperating with this trip... gonna be a clear and cold weekend!
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I just came from Dallas to Taos today. Actually had neutral winds. High pressure is dominating and should hold through Sunday. Looks like you can avoid battling the Jet Stream West bound, should be a reasonably fast trip.
 
Alexb2000 said:
I just came from Dallas to Taos today. Actually had neutral winds. High pressure is dominating and should hold through Sunday. Looks like you can avoid battling the Jet Stream West bound, should be a reasonably fast trip.
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Thank you for the confirmation... this is precisely the conclusion I had reached as well. I'm excited!
 
onwards said:
Thank you for the confirmation... this is precisely the conclusion I had reached as well. I'm excited!
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The runways at Santa Fe look good also, just a little ice on the taxiways, won't be an issue. Always good to check runway conditions prior to coming up here, Taos was still pretty contaminated.

I'm sure you know this, but be careful of wing frost prior to your departure.

Let us know how it goes.
 
Alexb2000 said:
The runways at Santa Fe look good also, just a little ice on the taxiways, won't be an issue. Always good to check runway conditions prior to coming up here, Taos was still pretty contaminated.

I'm sure you know this, but be careful of wing frost prior to your departure.

Let us know how it goes.
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Yes. I already contacted the FBO at KSAF (Santa Fe Jet Center I think) and they will keep the plane in their hangar for the last night, so I don't have to worry about wing frost or starting it in the cold.

Good idea about the runways, I wouldn't have thought of it (CA boy). Thank you.
 
What's P Ponk?

Sounds like you have a great trip planned. I did my PP checkride at Santa Fe
 
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