Help me pick the right plane for my mission

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Matt Goodrich

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Poulsbo, WA
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Matt
Moving to Western Washington soon, and wife gave me a requirement of a plane that can get me from the Bremerton area (KPWT) back to Colorado (let’s say Centennial - KAPA) in 6 hours or better. It’s about 950nm (direct), and I expect to stop for fuel at the half way point (doesn’t need to be counted in the 6 hours). I’ll probably make this trip every 1-2 months, and otherwise will be local flights or shorter cross countries. It will usually be me and my wife and our two young kids (both under 4), and bonus if there is room for 1 extra adult (au pair).

I’d like to spend under $200k. So far I’ve looked at:

  • A36 (Most ideal, too expensive)
  • 35 series Bonanza (Current winner, but trying to parse out the right model and years)
  • PA32-300 (too slow)
I’ve heard maybe a Comanche 250 could fit the bill. A Mooney won’t have the useful load from what I have seen. A 182 is too slow (unsure about a retractable Cessna). Is there a magical plane out there that would fit this mission that I’m not thinking of (or any commentary on any of the above)?
 
First you give us time, then you restrict payload without providing values. 182RG might work.
 
Spring for the A36. A Saratoga would also be a good fit but sacrifices speed for comfort, and your mission favors speed. Club seating is a plus for tending to kids, although I was surprised at how well it worked to have kids age 3, 6, and 9 plus their parents and me in the 310 with all forward-facing seats. So, depending on your actual people, the Comanche could do the trick.
 
It'll probably break your budget, but turbo Seneca. Especially if you're thinking about doing this night or IFR, a turbo twin sounds like a good idea flying into Colorado. It'll be faster than a similar single, and if you manage the weight right it might maintain altitude with one engine, depending on your routes. (I'm an east coast single engine guy, so will let you do that math.)

If you want to stay single, then turbo Saratoga. It might not be as fast as you want, but it'll handle the payload and think the turbo again will be a good thing with high DA.
 
I don't have a recommendation. That's a lot of mountains to cover in a GA aircraft. Realistically, you're looking for something pressurized and can fly in the flight levels if you're planning on doing this every 30-60 days.
 
Happy Bonanza owner here, but I might own a 310 (turbo?) if this was my mission. The V35 is perfect for my family of three (plus small dog), but even with the larger baggage area of the later Bonanzas, I pretty much fill it up with just the three of us.
 
Challenged said:
Happy Bonanza owner here, but I might own a 310 (turbo?) if this was my mission. The V35 is perfect for my family of three (plus small dog), but even with the larger baggage area of the later Bonanzas, I pretty much fill it up with just the three of us.
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Any reason for a 310 over a Piper or Beech light twin?
 
Matt Goodrich said:
Bremerton area (KPWT) back to Colorado (let’s say Centennial - KAPA) in 6 hours or better.
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You'll generally have a tailwind in that direction and a headwind coming back. If that 6 hours requirement is only in the eastbound direction, that opens up a couple options.

That said, TR182 might be worth a look. If you want to do it comfortably, P210 with the Vitatoe STC, but that's probably pushing the budget.
https://www.avweb.com/ownership/turbonormalized-p210-fast-efficient-quieter/
 
asicer said:
You'll generally have a tailwind in that direction and a headwind coming back. If that 6 hours requirement is only in the eastbound direction, that opens up a couple options.

That said, TR182 might be worth a look. If you want to do it comfortably, P210 with the Vitatoe STC, but that's probably pushing the budget.
https://www.avweb.com/ownership/turbonormalized-p210-fast-efficient-quieter/
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It’s definitely the more important direction for the time requirement.
 
You need something FIKI-certified to get over the Cascades in rather winter.
 
If you’re serious about doing regularly you’re going to need a FIKI plane. T210 might do it, FIKI will be challenging to find. Malibu would do it, but will break the budget. I in general I think this is asking a lot of a single, and if money were no object you’d be in the FIKI, pressurized, piston twin world at a minimum.

If you’re willing to give up reliability and do it only VFR, I think a number of the fast singles would work: T210, A36 (ideally TN’ed), some of the -35 models, some Mooneys (useful load and 5th seat being the issue). Comanche maybe (might not be fast enough but would check the other boxes).
 
What about a turbo twinkie? I’d want a twin if I were flying around the Rockies regularly
 
If the costs of running a twin don’t scare you, I’d definitely recommend one for your mission. A lot of people avoid them due to cost concerns, so you get a lot more plane for your money.
Most Beeches are NA and with all those mountains I’d go turbo, so probably easier to find with a Cessna or Piper. A FIKI equipped 310 turbo would be very good, so would a late-model Piper Aztec. Turbo Seminole doesn’t handle 5 people and a Seneca is probably too expensive.
 
Frontier. You can send me the other $190,000 as a consulting fee. I've left enough there for 1,000 trips, which should be enough for decades of happy travel.
 
1/3 of a legacy Citation
 
Having lived in that part of the world for almost a decade, specifically flying out of PWT, FIKI is a must. 2/3 of the year you will see surface temps top out in the lower 50s, or less, under a solid overcast. I was able to fly under the overcast some days, but in order to get out of the valley, you will need to climb through it. I would go the pressurized 310 route if it were me. PWT does sit on top of a hill, so sometimes you get lucky.

edit: I said pressurized when I meant turbo.
 
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ktup-flyer said:
What about a turbo twinkie? I’d want a twin if I were flying around the Rockies regularly
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Why? What light twins have a SE Service ceiling above 10-12k? You lose an engine you're just as ****ed as in a single, except you've got more probability of it happening.
 
AA5Bman said:
Pressurized 310 is a rare bird indeed.
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Yes, given the 0 that were produced, I think that finding one is going to be hard, and getting parts for it will be harder.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Why? What light twins have a SE Service ceiling above 10-12k? You lose an engine you're just as ****ed as in a single, except you've got more probability of it happening.
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If I’m in the Rockies, or any other hostile terrain, I’ll take descending at 200 fpm over descending at 500-1000 fpm…..
 
Does an Aztec make sense? People have spoken highly of their ability to handle ice.
 
Ted said:
Yes, given the 0 that were produced, I think that finding one is going to be hard, and getting parts for it will be harder.
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Almost as hard as finding parts for a Duke. The OP would look good in a Duke.

I don't think the OP needs FIKI. The OP needs scheduling flexibility and a plane that can escape inadvertent ice, which might mean FIKI or a non-certified de-ice system. It could also just mean an Aztec that can carry ice. All of these features boil down to keeping you in the air long enough to get out of the icing conditions. Flying this route with the "FIKI means I can go" mindset is a recipe for disaster just as much as the "instrument rating means I can go" mindset would be. People who really do have to get places on a schedule need more than FIKI. They need turbines.

That being said, I have a friend who went from a V35 to a FIKI A36. It's slower and he doesn't need the seats, but the TKS system is a huge benefit for his flying. So those planes can be found. I'd rather have a twin for the OP's route, both because of the mountains and because a lightly-loaded twin is probably going to fly better with some ice on it than a heavily-loaded single.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Be better off looking for a Learbaron.
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Isn't that just a Mooney? I mean a Mooney could handle this mission with a Bo strapped to its back right? Faster and more economical too, I've heard.
 
bflynn said:
Frontier. You can send me the other $190,000 as a consulting fee. I've left enough there for 1,000 trips, which should be enough for decades of happy travel.
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Silly post but it made me wonder. For a mission like this would it be feasible to charter a pressurized *something* at a reasonable cost? Something like a Malibu or even a Pilatus, or even a 310 or 421. How much do charters like that actually cost?
 
Salty said:
Silly post but it made me wonder. For a mission like this would it be feasible to charter a pressurized *something* at a reasonable cost? Something like a Malibu or even a Pilatus, or even a 310 or 421. How much do charters like that actually cost?
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There is a 135 operation near me that charters a 340A. Their website gives rates of $750/hour plus pilot standby of $50/hour or $450 overnight. Since they are actually operating charters and I've seen their plane away from base on trips, I assume their prices are in line with the rest of the pressurized-piston-twin charter market.
 
iamtheari said:
There is a 135 operation near me that charters a 340A. Their website gives rates of $750/hour plus pilot standby of $50/hour or $450 overnight. Since they are actually operating charters and I've seen their plane away from base on trips, I assume their prices are in line with the rest of the pressurized-piston-twin charter market.
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Ouch. That’s pretty steep.
 
iamtheari said:
Almost as hard as finding parts for a Duke. The OP would look good in a Duke.

I don't think the OP needs FIKI. The OP needs scheduling flexibility and a plane that can escape inadvertent ice, which might mean FIKI or a non-certified de-ice system. It could also just mean an Aztec that can carry ice. All of these features boil down to keeping you in the air long enough to get out of the icing conditions. Flying this route with the "FIKI means I can go" mindset is a recipe for disaster just as much as the "instrument rating means I can go" mindset would be. People who really do have to get places on a schedule need more than FIKI. They need turbines.

That being said, I have a friend who went from a V35 to a FIKI A36. It's slower and he doesn't need the seats, but the TKS system is a huge benefit for his flying. So those planes can be found. I'd rather have a twin for the OP's route, both because of the mountains and because a lightly-loaded twin is probably going to fly better with some ice on it than a heavily-loaded single.
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I think you make a good point that what is really needed is flexibility and/or a turbine. My only “but” is that if he wants to go at all in the winter, departing from Bremerton, I’m going to guess it’s a rare day that he’s not going to encounter freezing temps and visible moisture, so does “flexibility until next summer” count? “Inadvertent” assumes no one else has already reported icing, which just isn’t going to be that common in winter in the Pac NW (Full disclosure: I’m a little out of my league here not having operated out of the PAC NW personally, but I do fly there occasionally and monitor the weather/icing situation there often and it is often a challenge to figure out how to get over the cascades and land in the Seattle area in a non-FIKI bird pretty much before June or after August.)
 
Salty said:
Ouch. That’s pretty steep.
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From my work experience with cabin class Cessna twins, that's reasonable for an outfit wanting to cover some cap ex and make a profit.

And anything is fair game if customers pay it.
 
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