help me find a taildragger

A

alanbreck

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AlanB
If these are the requirements...
- under $40k
- 4 seats
- all metal (to keep outside)
- taildragger

Are there any options on the market?
 
You should rethink all metal, modern fabrics do fine outside, go ask someone in AK.

Stinson 108
C170
Or there is a nice cruise master for sale right now too.
 
I don't have a fabric plane, but there are plenty of them that live quite happily outside through the many flavors of winters here.
 
Stinson 108 = Franklin = !good, or so I'm told. Get a Luscombe. If you can fly a Luscombe, you can fly anything. Or so I'm told. ;)

Just avoid the A65 motor.
 
N659HB said:
Stinson 108 = Franklin = !good, or so I'm told. Get a Luscombe. If you can fly a Luscombe, you can fly anything. Or so I'm told. ;)

Just avoid the A65 motor.
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100 hrs in a 65HP Luscombe. Made a better pilot of me but that was in 2011/12. I seriously need a refresher. Luscombe is two-seater and tight at that.
 
I always liked the PA-20 Pacers, sometimes seen in a PA 22/20 Tri-Pacer converted back to a taildragger. I think they have 150 horse Lycomings in them
 
alfadog said:
I always liked the PA-20 Pacers, sometimes seen in a PA 22/20 Tri-Pacer converted back to a taildragger. I think they have 150 horse Lycomings in them
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150 or 160 hp. The 150s seem to have a following as they can be run on mogas.
 
alfadog said:
100 hrs in a 65HP Luscombe. Made a better pilot of me but that was in 2011/12. I seriously need a refresher. Luscombe is two-seater and tight at that.
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Doh! Guess I missed the “4 seat” requirement.
 
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With those requirements you pretty much limit your self to a metalized stinson or a 170. I would lean more towards the Stinson because I think they are gorgeous and you are likely to find a nice Stinson for 40k than a 170. Depending on where you are at though, I would rather have a fabric airplane with a non cotton covering outside than a metal one. Sure the fabric will eventually need replacing but we are talking 15-20-30 years down the road with the new covering systems. By then you are likely going to need paint anyway. 1 hail storm will total a metal airplane where a fabric one will shrug it off and keep on flying.
 
alanbreck said:
If these are the requirements...
- under $40k
- 4 seats
- all metal (to keep outside)
- taildragger

Are there any options on the market?
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Keep outside where?

A 4 seat taildragger at $40K will be tough. The lower priced 4 seaters may have 4 seats but won’t be very useful with 4 occupants.
 
alfadog said:
I always liked the PA-20 Pacers, sometimes seen in a PA 22/20 Tri-Pacer converted back to a taildragger. I think they have 150 horse Lycomings in them
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PA-20s were originally equipped with either an O-290 or a O-235 (!), most of them have been reengined with an 0-320. Tri-Pacers came with an O-290 or an O-320, some of them have been converted back into Pacers.

There's a metalized Pacer on Barnstormers right now, with a 160hp O-320. I have no idea how to link to Barnstormers, but if the OP looks in the PA-20 listings, he'll find it.
 
I've had a PA-22/20 on floats for years. It is currently undergoing a complete rebuild.

Fabric was fine, it's the steel underneath it that is the problem.
 
N659HB said:
Stinson 108 = Franklin = !good, or so I'm told. Get a Luscombe. If you can fly a Luscombe, you can fly anything. Or so I'm told. ;)

Just avoid the A65 motor.
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Luscombe had a four seater too! And why the comment about the A65? They're great engines and contrary to popular belief there are parts for them. Most Cubs, Champs, Luscombes, and Taylorcrafts have them...
1957755.jpg
 
Tom-D said:
Not really.
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Took a six figure plane to get me out of mine.

Super light controls, docile as can be, comfy, great landing gear, simple systems, overbuilt, can run mogas, great ramp appeal.
 
James331 said:
Took a six figure plane to get me out of mine.

Super light controls, docile as can be, comfy, great landing gear, simple systems, overbuilt, can run mogas, great ramp appeal.
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As the old saying goes, " 1 does not make a trend".
IMHO there are too many pitfalls in most of the old rag bags for a first time owner. The 108-s were not linseed oiled at the factory, and many are having major problems with rusty longerons.

and as the OP requested they are not all metal.
 
Grum.Man said:
1 hail storm will total a metal airplane where a fabric one will shrug it off and keep on flying.
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Not really,, you get a rib bent the whole fabric will get loose, leading edges for the most fabric are metal, they get bent the fabric will be loose, and will be coming off for repair.
Hail on a wooden wing will usually total the aircraft.
Hail on a metal aircraft will be ugly as hell but still fly.
 
Tom-D said:
Not really,, you get a rib bent the whole fabric will get loose, leading edges for the most fabric are metal, they get bent the fabric will be loose, and will be coming off for repair.
Hail on a wooden wing will usually total the aircraft.
Hail on a metal aircraft will be ugly as hell but still fly.
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If it hails bad enough to cause loosening of the fabric, that metal airplane isn't going to be flying anywhere either.
 
James331 said:
Took a six figure plane to get me out of mine.
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Don't get me wrong, there are some very nice 108-s out there, but like yours, you ain't gettem for under 40k
 
Grum.Man said:
If it hails bad enough to cause loosening of the fabric, that metal airplane isn't going to be flying anywhere either.
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When you realize what it will cost to replace the fabric on a wing when a rib is being replaced you'll see why I say that.
 
Tom-D said:
Don't get me wrong, there are some very nice 108-s out there, but like yours, you ain't gettem for under 40k
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Not sure what rock you are living under but short of ones with engine STC I don't think I have ever seen a 108 listed for more than 40k. 30k will buy you a very, very nice Stinson 108.
 
Grum.Man said:
Not sure what rock you are living under but short of ones with engine STC I don't think I have ever seen a 108 listed for more than 40k. 30k will buy you a very, very nice Stinson 108.
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must be the same one James is.
IMHO buying one under 40k is just buying a project.
 
There are some nice ones listed on Barnstormers right now. One for $25K with 48.3 SMOH, one for $19.5K with 404 SMOH, one for $20K with 770 SMOH. All three look very nice, clean paint, nice interiors, etc.
 
James331 said:
^ That

Toms Stinson knowledge might be a little lacking
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I've only been fixing them since they were nearly new.
and I still overhaul the Franklin.
and have 3 on my annual customer list..one of which I declared un-airworthy this year for longeron repair, and a cracked case.

How about you
 
Lowflynjack said:
There are some nice ones listed on Barnstormers right now. One for $25K with 48.3 SMOH, one for $19.5K with 404 SMOH, one for $20K with 770 SMOH. All three look very nice, clean paint, nice interiors, etc.
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have you looked at them?
Grum.Man said:
For 40k it had better have new everything done to near Lindy quality
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would recommend a first Time buyer buy any thing that isn't?
 
Lowflynjack said:
No, but are you telling me that 3 listed for less than $25K and you think they're all projects? I think sometimes you just like to fight with people!
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I guess I'm a wet blanket when buying old aircraft. I really don't like seeing new owners expectations get dashed 6 months later when they realize that there is a maintenance bill due bigger than the cost of buying.

Remember the horrors of the first annual.
 
Lowflynjack said:
No, but are you telling me that 3 listed for less than $25K and you think they're all projects? I think sometimes you just like to fight with people!
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. fight? no warn.
did you notice most of the 108s you noted are -1 & -2s they aren't even 4 seats. his requirement of four seats eliminates 90 % of those on Barnstormers, Plus the -3s that are under 40k certainly are what I'd call projects.
 
Tom-D said:
I've only been fixing them since they were nearly new.
and I still overhaul the Franklin.
and have 3 on my annual customer list..one of which I declared un-airworthy this year for longeron repair, and a cracked case.

How about you
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Well you didn’t know the difference between a -3 with a HUGE tail a while back, also you’re declaring aircraft unairworthy eh?

I remember a conversation with one of your last customers on some of the Stinson forums



Tom-D said:
. fight? no warn.
did you notice most of the 108s you noted are -1 & -2s they aren't even 4 seats. his requirement of four seats eliminates 90 % of those on Barnstormers, Plus the -3s that are under 40k certainly are what I'd call projects.
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A -1 and -2 doesn’t have 4 seats?!

See Tom, this is why you really shouldn’t be commenting on things (like stinsons) that you don’t know about.
 
The Stinson was a great old aircraft 70 years ago, I basically grew up in my dad's Reliant, the 108 series was an attempt to enter into the light civil market, the design was by Bill Piper, but when Eddy Stinson got killed, the war started, and after the war stinson company got caught in the consolidation fiasco all production stopped.
 
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