Help me decipher this approach

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

Touchdown! Greaser!
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
Take a look at the VOR/DME-A approach for KGYI I have linked below.

My interpretation of this is:

Once crossing HIPAN (BYP DME 20) at 2400 MSL, continue on the BYP 290 radial, descending at the non-precision rate to 1340 MSL. Level off there, and then "drive" at that altitude until I either (1) can see the airport environment so I can circle to the runway or (2) cross BYP DME 24 at which is my missed approach point.

What got me studying this was noting that the MAP is over the center of the airport (shown in the profile view) and that the CFI I want to use to finish my IFR training uses this as one of the VOR approaches.

Most of the other VOR approaches I have practiced with didn't "terminate" over the airport like this, and were slightly more in line with the runway.

Anyhow.... this was an interesting construct and I wanted to make sure I was interpreting the plate correctly.
 

Attachments

You've got it right. The MAP is depicted over the middle of the field because it's a circle-to-land approach no matter what and you're intercepting the runways almost at a right angle. If you're midfield overhead (i.e., BYP 24 DME) and can't see any runways, go missed. Otherwise circle to land. Note also that the name of the approach doesn't include a runway.
 
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colojo said:
Note also that the name of the approach doesn't include a runway.
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Interesting point. Does that mean that this approach serves either runway, depending on wind and the tower's instructions?
 
register@teamandras.com said:
In the plan view, is HIPAN correctly labeled as an IAF?
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Yes. But if you start the approach there, you have to do the procedure turn. No procedure turn is required if you start at Bonham. I am not instrument rated, so take with the appropriate dosage of salt.
 
register@teamandras.com said:
In the plan view, is HIPAN correctly labeled as an IAF?
Click to expand...
It is. If you start at HIPAN as the IAF, you execute the course reversal and then cross it again as the FAF. Second choice is to start at BYP as the IAF, cross NOVAK as the IF, and then HIPAN as the FAF. Third choice is to get vectors to final to join the final approach course (BYP 290 radial) outside the final approach gate (which is a mile or two outside HIPAN), then cross HIPAN as the FAA. If you have an IFR approach GPS, there's one more option -- ATC can clear you to proceed direct to NOVAK as the IF as long as you'll arrive there with less than a 90-degree turn to the final approach course, and then proceed straight in from NOVAK as the IF across HIPAN as the FAF skipping the course reversal.
 
Ron Levy said:
If you have an IFR approach GPS, there's one more option -- ATC can clear you to proceed direct to NOVAK as the IF as long as you'll arrive there with less than a 90-degree turn to the final approach course, and then proceed straight in from NOVAK as the IF across HIPAN as the FAF skipping the course reversal.
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Good to know (files that tip in the databank)
 
AggieMike88 said:
Interesting point. Does that mean that this approach serves either runway, depending on wind and the tower's instructions?
Click to expand...
The letter at the end of the title rather than a runway number means this is a "circling-only" approach with no published straight-in minima. You can circle to any runway, but you could do that off a runway numbered approach, too, if you use the (usually) higher circling minima rather than landing straight in on the designated runway using the straight-in minima.
 
PPC1052 said:
Yes. But if you start the approach there, you have to do the procedure turn. No procedure turn is required if you start at Bonham. I am not instrument rated, so take with the appropriate dosage of salt.
Click to expand...
Perhaps not, but you have it right. And note that if you start at BYP VOR, the "NoPT" designation on that segment means not only is the course reversal not required, it is in fact prohibited without specific request and ATC approval.
 
Ron Levy said:
And note that if you start at BYP VOR, the "NoPT" designation on that segment means not only is the course reversal not required, it is in fact prohibited without specific request and ATC approval.
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Yes. Thanks for the reminder. It was vaguely assumed in my head, but not expressly so thought, or so stated in my post.
 
PPC1052 said:
Yes. But if you start the approach there, you have to do the procedure turn. No procedure turn is required if you start at Bonham. I am not instrument rated, so take with the appropriate dosage of salt.
Click to expand...

Ron Levy said:
It is. If you start at HIPAN as the IAF, you execute the course reversal and then cross it again as the FAF. ***
Click to expand...

Thank you both! It makes sense to me now.

Is the FAF ever labeled as such on the plan view, or is it only designated as the FAF with the Maltese cross in the profile view?
 
PPC1052 said:
Off topic, but, is that a Birman in your avatar? We have one, and he looks just like your avatar.
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Ha.:wink2: I'm not sure. I just stumbled across it, thought it looked sort of aviation related and was kind of funny, and converted it into an avatar GIF.
 
register@teamandras.com said:
Ha.:wink2: I'm not sure. I just stumbled across it, thought it looked sort of aviation related and was kind of funny, and converted it into an avatar GIF.
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Note the all white feet. That's the give-away.

http://kittymeowtoys.com/cat-pictures/v/Birman_cats_picuters/Blue+point+Birman+cat.jpg.html

Yes, the avatar is kind of funny. But I wonder who would throw a perfectly good Birman out of a plane? They are such friendly, easy going animals. Poor guy looks terrified.
 
PPC1052 said:
Yes, the avatar is kind of funny. But I wonder who would throw a perfectly good Birman out of a plane? They are such friendly, easy going animals. Poor guy looks terrified.
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It's all good because he has a parachute. Note the ripcord.:yesnod:
 
AggieMike88 said:
Take a look at the VOR/DME-A approach for KGYI I have linked below.

My interpretation of this is:

Once crossing HIPAN (BYP DME 20) at 2400 MSL, continue on the BYP 290 radial, descending at the non-precision rate to 1340 MSL. Level off there, and then "drive" at that altitude until I either (1) can see the airport environment so I can circle to the runway or (2) cross BYP DME 24 at which is my missed approach point..............................
Anyhow.... this was an interesting construct and I wanted to make sure I was interpreting the plate correctly.
Click to expand...

Seems to me you are, assuming you are at the point where HIPAN is the FAF.
 
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PPC1052 said:
Yes, the avatar is kind of funny. But I wonder who would throw a perfectly good Birman out of a plane? They are such friendly, easy going animals. Poor guy looks terrified.
Click to expand...

The cat has a parachute and it was a funny commercial for ... I forget what now.
Too bad PETA got it shut down after enough incessant whining.
Btw, it is CGI. No cats had any real skydiving fun during making of this video.
 
BigBadLou said:
The cat has a parachute and it was a funny commercial for ... I forget what now.
Too bad PETA got it shut down after enough incessant whining.
Btw, it is CGI. No cats had any real skydiving fun during making of this video.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the Google lead. I didn't know that. Here's a link to a YouTube version of the original commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9OUFS9uTb4
 
colojo said:
You've got it right. The MAP is depicted over the middle of the field because it's a circle-to-land approach no matter what and you're intercepting the runways almost at a right angle.
Click to expand...

Or straight in 31

;)
 
I flew this approach in actual one night with an instructor not long after completing my instrument ride. Clouds were widely scattered so I departed Addison with a clearance with the plan to do multiple approaches in the area, but bases were pretty high and it was clear. I didn't expect any actual. I was cleared for the approach so I got established on the outbound radial in VMC before I was able to pick up the local weather (yes- very bad- I was a little behind the plane but quickly caught up well before reaching NOVAK). We were VMC departing BYP, but the ATIS reported clouds at 600. About 15 DME we hit the clouds, then we began our descent at HIPAN. The approach path is over the city of Sherman, and we could see the lights shining up through the clouds, and we could even see the ground periodically when we hit holes in the broken layer. We broke out right at minimums just east the airport. It would have been a piece of cake to enter a right downwind and land. We went missed as briefed. It was a very high pucker factor, but very memorable and very satisfying.

I would have broken off the approach early if I didn't have an instructor with me. Circling approach at night? No thank you. I'm very familiar with the area or I wouldn't have planned a circling approach at night for practice to begin with.
 
I note the MSA is 2700 but the Missed is ^2000 then >2400. Is this common? There airport is also near the end of range for the missed 25nm area at 24nm, is that common?
 
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