Help me clarify thoughts on first airplane purchase

psween

psween

Pre-takeoff checklist
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psween
Apologies to those who may have seen this post on the red board, but I want as much feedback as I can find.

I've been lurking and reading extensively on here and other boards, trying to wrap my head around ownership. I am not at the point where I'll be buying now, but I expect in the next year or so I'll be shopping for real. Here's what I 'think' I'm looking for:

150-180 hp
Not complex or HP
4 Seats
Grass strip ok

My main mission will be time building, pancake breakfasts, give the kids rides, local stuff. Maybe once or twice a year a 300-500 mile XC. I'd like something with at least a basic IFR panel because part of my time building will be working toward the IFR rating, and eventually onto a commercial and CFI ticket.

I'm a low time private pilot (about 100 hrs. TT) with at least a few hours in a Cherokee 140, Cherokee 6-300, C172 (my primary trainer), 150, Grumman AA5B (majority of hours). I've got a handful of hours in a number of homebuilts and an acro introduction in an Extra. I'm an A&P, although not an IA, and plan to do my own maintenance except the annual inspection. I live on a 2700' grass strip (7MN3) in flat land with minimal terrain or obstructions around and own a hangar to keep it in.

Right now I keep coming back to the Grumman Traveler/Cheetah, since I liked the Tiger I flew, but a Cherokee 140/160 or older 172 may also fit the bill. Is it crazy to think I might find something under $30K? I'm not too concerned about cosmetics or a mid-high time engine as long as it's mechanically sound. I don't want a 'project' but would be willing to upgrade minor stuff along the way, although big panel upgrades aren't in the budget.

I realize the purchase price is only the tip of the iceberg for cost, but figure I have some advantages to keep cost down. Any advice from those who've gone down this road would be welcome!

Patrick Sween
 
I think a PA-28-161 Warrior is just hard to beat as far as value. You can get them well-equipped cheap, they haul a bunch for the horsepower compared to a 172, the backseat is usable, easy to maintain, and there are a bunch of them out there to choose from.

30k for a Warrior is actually doable. It won't have a 430 in it, but it's doable.

You being an AP is a huge advantage and will save you a butt load of money along the way.

I've got a good chunk of hours in a Cherokee 140 as well as two different Warriors (151 and 161). Spend the extra cash and get a Warrior. The lack of power and tiny backseat of the 140 will get annoying.

With Ipads and external GPS units, a 430/530 is nice, but if you have two VORs then you still have what you need.
 
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Under $30K, Cherokee 140/160 or older 172. I would lean toward the Cherokee as it has a better engine. Plenty of then out there for less than $30K. Or a Beechcraft Musketeer. It is a buyers market, take advantage of it.
 
You need to save more money. ( the Cherokee 140 is in reality a two place airplane. Unpowered. )
 
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there was a warrior for sale near me for like $40ish, I'm sure you could probably get it easily for mid 30's. appeared to be a good deal...how flexible is that 'under 30k'? if you bump it up 10k there's probably quite a few options.
 
Also consider an Archer or a Cherokee 180.
 
C-170 with 180h.p. conversion...

Be a man!

1146514_10152988581673602_1791170302369292236_n.jpg
 
Come up with a few more dollars and find a nice clean Cherokee 180. Should fit your mission.
 
txflyer said:
C-170 with 180h.p. conversion...

Be a man!

1146514_10152988581673602_1791170302369292236_n.jpg
Click to expand...

:rofl::rofl::rofl: Like a chick gives a flying **** about what you fly. I have yet to come across one that knew the difference or cared, and the ones that care want you to have a twin so she can log some multi time.:lol:
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
What's the UL on those?
And what is the difference between
the cheetah, traveler, and tiger. I see AA-5s all called those things.
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850-ish, maybe a bit more if it's not been repainted and doesn't have a ton of radios. Traveler is first generation AA-5, bulbous nose cowl, small tail/elevator.

1975(late 74) model only has redesigned swept low profile cowl, small tail/elev.

AA-5A Cheetah 76-81 like a Traveler but bigger tail/elev and heavier, some refinements in cockpit, upholstery, right side brakes, LR 52Gal tanks avail, etc.

AA-5B Tiger same as Cheetah but 180HP Lyc engine, higher gross weight.

AG-5B Tiger, a re-issue of the early models by Amer General. Heavier, diff prop, slower, better int, gauges, trim.
 
I get by with a Warrior and it's 890 lb useful load. I do consider upgrading though. For $30k you won't get near a 180 hp Tiger.

I have a family member in the middle of flight training, otherwise I may sell you my Warrior(;)). Yes, in your budget a Warrior in good shape will do.

I like the picture above showing the 'nose wheel' pilot in distress, kinda funny.
 
IFR Cherokee 140s can be had between 20 and 30 AMUs. For that money you don't get an airplane that's very nice, but it will work and you can fly. It will easily make it in and out of your strip so long as you don't overload it. The nice thing is you've the ability to trade sweat equity for airplane. You can pick up something cheap and fix it up as you go.
 
docmirror said:
850-ish, maybe a bit more if it's not been repainted and doesn't have a ton of radios.
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That's what I've seen of most 150hp AA5/AA5A's. Most of the AA5B's (180hp) I've seen have been in the low 900's.
 
asicer said:
That's what I've seen of most 150hp AA5/AA5A's. Most of the AA5B's (180hp) I've seen have been in the low 900's.
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800-850 is typical for an AA-5A. 850-900 is typical for an AA-5 (thinner windows, less soundproofing, etc). 900-950 is typical for an AA-5B. The newer (and more loaded with goodies) AG-5B's are usually back in the 850-900 range.
 
Henning said:
:rofl::rofl::rofl: Like a chick gives a flying **** about what you fly. I have yet to come across one that knew the difference or cared, and the ones that care want you to have a twin so she can log some multi time.:lol:
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:rofl::rofl::rofl: Been looking for a good set for years.... Never came close...:goofy::goofy::goofy:
 
Henning said:
:rofl::rofl::rofl: Like a chick gives a flying **** about what you fly. I have yet to come across one that knew the difference or cared, and the ones that care want you to have a twin so she can log some multi time.:lol:
Click to expand...


Balderdash. Women throw themselves at me when my polished 180 blinds them.

It sure ain't my George Clooney looks.... :lol:
 
txflyer said:
Balderdash. Women throw themselves at me when my polished 180 blinds them.

It sure ain't my George Clooney looks.... :lol:
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Sure, after they blindly walk into your wing strut and knock themselves out.:rofl:
 
Thanks for the thoughts so far. I've been up in a Warrior once or twice, and have one landing from the right seat, but not a lot of experience there. Specs look like the AA-5A in every way except the Grumman is faster. Control feel was definitely heavier in the Warrior than I was used to. More of them out there for sale in the high $20K to low $30K range, so maybe the odds of finding a decent one are better. Will add it to my list of contenders, although the sliding canopy vs. single side door still pushes me toward the Grummans.

Patrick
 
To the OP, put some spice in your life. There are some reasonably priced, four place tailwheel planes, like the 170. It would fit your criteria quite well and add extra fun to your training and flying.
 
Not currently tailwheel endorsed, but it's on my list. I don't have anything against tailwheels, I'm building a Pietenpol for good weather fun flying. My only issue with the 170 and similar is that clean ones with IFR capability are relatively scarce and seem to command a premium, and I worry that insurance might be costly for a few years until I get some significant tailwheel time. Would be fun though to put skis on for winter, then I wouldn't have to figure out how to plow my runway.

Patrick
 
The only downside to the Traveler/Cheetah is they aren't the best on turf. Nothing serious, and of course it'll land there but you'll want to be careful to maintain full back on the yoke after touch down, and go easy on the brakes. Also, insure that the nose gear is in flawless condition, and the tire is dynamically balanced. The Cheetah would be a little better due to the enlarged tail, but still they kinda like pavement a bit better.

YMMV
 
From what you said I'd get the Grumman.
 
docmirror said:
The only downside to the Traveler/Cheetah is they aren't the best on turf. Nothing serious, and of course it'll land there but you'll want to be careful to maintain full back on the yoke after touch down, and go easy on the brakes. Also, insure that the nose gear is in flawless condition, and the tire is dynamically balanced. The Cheetah would be a little better due to the enlarged tail, but still they kinda like pavement a bit better.

YMMV
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Agreed, if you have enough they work out though. We used a Traveller as our 'gofer' plane at one ag operation and the home field was 3000' of grass, and even heavy on a hot day we'd be flying before 2/3rds of the runway was gone.
 
We have 2700' of runway, flat around with few obstructions, so most GA planes should be comfortable here. Higher HP and lower stall is always nice, but any of my contenders should feel at home. Here's a pic, stop in any time you find yourself in SE Minnesota.

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