Help me choose a plane for my mission (Hawaii)

[Steamflyer]

Thanks WDD, this is probably the intelligent thing to do.

For the rest of the group - any idea whether I would I be insurable in a 206, Skymaster or baron with say 250 hours and IR, commercial and multi ratings? I understand there will likely be some training requirements with the "type" if I were insurable.

206 sounds likely. A twin will be very expensive the first year or two but then rates will decline generally. Probably need 25 hours in the twin with a mentor pilot after the rating.

If I were based in HI, not having just enjoyed flying there in the past, I would want a common plane that everyone knows how to work on and for which parts are reasonably available.

That pretty much means 206 or Baron for the capacity requirements outlined. I’d worry about servicing rarer aircraft on an island. The 310s are mostly in the ridden hard and put away wet category nowadays - foundering. But they’ll do the job most handily if can find a good one. Much roomier than a Baron, whose cockpit, like the identical fuselage Bonanza, gets tight particularly on headroom for those about 5’10” or taller.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Have you considered a Piper PA34-200 Seneca? With counter rotating IO-360 200HP naturally aspirated engines it seems a really good match for your mission over open water. Piper made over 900 of them so there are still some around.

They'd be terrible for sightseeing though. Big, bulbous cowlings and you're kinda sitting down between them. I haven't flown a Seneca I (which you must be referring to with your naturally aspirated comment) but the II I flew didn't have very good payload capability. Three dudes aboard, we had to leave fuel behind.

 

[bigmo]

The 310s are mostly in the ridden hard and put away wet category nowadays - foundering. But they’ll do the job most handily if can find a good one. Much roomier than a Baron, whose cockpit, like the identical fuselage Bonanza, gets tight particularly on headroom for those about 5’10” or taller.

Food for thought on the 310 - they practically give them away. With the OP's budget, once could essentially "refurbish" a 310 with good bones. New engines, new panel, new paint, new interior - and simply replace everything that moves.

A guy hangered near me did that with a Baron. Said it cost about $600K all in, but I thought it was a 2024 model - literally everything looked, felt smelled brand new.

That being said, I'm sure that's a labor of love.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Food for thought on the 310 - they practically give them away. With the OP's budget, once could essentially "refurbish" a 310 with good bones. New engines, new panel, new paint, new interior - and simply replace everything that moves.

A guy hangered near me did that with a Baron. Said it cost about $600K all in, but I thought it was a 2024 model - literally everything looked, felt smelled brand new.

That being said, I'm sure that's a labor of love.

Wait... Who's giving away 310s?

Okay, maybe I missed some because I normally only seriously look at Qs and Rs, but the lowest prices I've seen recently were $60K, with work required.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

To your question about getting 4 sets of clubs in a 182 (not sure with BRS though):

Extended Baggage Kits – Selkirk Aviation

 

[MBDiagMan]

Sightseeing at 6,000 feet? Please post some videos of using binoculars and flying at the same time! I’ve been to Maui twice and understand that the islands are a sight from that altitude, but it still sounds odd to sight see from that altitude. Also if sight seeing is a high priority, you need a high wing plane.

Without digging into and doing research, an Aero Commander comes to mind as a good choice if it would fit in the hangar.

 

[timtower]

I went from a Cirrus SR20 at around 350 hours to an Aerostar. Required a course with an approved instructor. About 20 hours ground and 10 in the air (plus homework). Was a one week class. Then 25 hours of a mentor pilot. Then a proficiency check at three and six months; which were around a two hour flight each.
This was in 2012; with a no sub-limit insurance policy.

If you are willing to follow the rules, you might be surprised at what they will let you do.

Tim

This is good information. Thank you!

206 sounds likely. A twin will be very expensive the first year or two but then rates will decline generally. Probably need 25 hours in the twin with a mentor pilot after the rating.

If I were based in HI, not having just enjoyed flying there in the past, I would want a common plane that everyone knows how to work on and for which parts are reasonably available.

That pretty much means 206 or Baron for the capacity requirements outlined. I’d worry about servicing rarer aircraft on an island. The 310s are mostly in the ridden hard and put away wet category nowadays - foundering. But they’ll do the job most handily if can find a good one. Much roomier than a Baron, whose cockpit, like the identical fuselage Bonanza, gets tight particularly on headroom for those about 5’10” or taller.

This is also good information. There are quite a few high wing Cessnas out here - 172s, 182s and 206s, so I imagine finding a mechanic for those won’t be too difficult. I have seen a couple of skymasters out here too!

I was thinking about your comment about headroom. I haven’t been in a baron, but I was in the right seat of an A36 bonanza a number of years ago and I don’t recall it being an issue for me at 6’1”. It’s a good thing to keep in mind though.

Sightseeing at 6,000 feet? Please post some videos of using binoculars and flying at the same time! I’ve been to Maui twice and understand that the islands are a sight from that altitude, but it still sounds odd to sight see from that altitude.

Fwiw, here’s a picture of Molokai cruising back from Maui at 6,500 feet.



Tim

 

[Pinecone]

Aerostar really needs a mechanic who really knows Aerostars. And I don't think there are enough of them in the islands to have one.

 

[tspear]

Aerostar really needs a mechanic who really knows Aerostars. And I don't think there are enough of them in the islands to have one.

Agree, did not check if there are any known out there. I was addressing the jump to a larger twin aspect.

Tim

 

[MBDiagMan]

I understand the sights Tim, but that picture brings to the forefront the need for a twin for that kind of flying. I fully understand the negatives and hazards with a twin, but flying over such terrain coupled with flying over open water REALLY justifies a twin. Just make it your policy to get on the ground as soon as possible in the event of an engine out event, and stay practiced and proficient with those skills.

I don’t know what Barons go for today, but it would be an excellent choice. A B58 is a prince of an airplane. An out of the mainstream choice might be a Cessna 337, but I don’t know if they are within your budget these days.

As you should know by now, us guys and gals around here are like politicians, we REALLY like spending other people’s money.

 

[timtower]

It's my understanding that they flew them over there.

From the googler: "Civilian pilots flew O-2s in flights of four from Cessna’s Wichita, Kansas, plant to Hamilton AFB in California. At Hamilton, the Air Force removed all the seats except the left front and installed extra fuel and oil tanks and an emergency radio."

So, it appears civilians got them as far as California, and perhaps military pilots took them the rest of the way. Not a job I would volunteer to do.

While researching skymasters, I found this very detailed article about ferrying the O-2’s from Wichita to Vietnam by civilian pilots that you might find interesting. https://www.afhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Fall2022Issue_All-4.pdf

I’ve gone down a rabbit hole researching skymasters the last few days. Interesting birds.

Tim

 

[Pinecone]

Man, that picture of the guy getting out over the fuel tank. Think about doing that after ditching in the ocean and trying to get out with your survival gear.

 

[SoonerAviator]

While researching skymasters, I found this very detailed article about ferrying the O-2’s from Wichita to Vietnam by civilian pilots that you might find interesting. https://www.afhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Fall2022Issue_All-4.pdf

I’ve gone down a rabbit hole researching skymasters the last few days. Interesting birds.

Tim

The SkyThrasher just seems to make a lot of sense for this type of situation where you're over water and want the second engine, but don't necessarily benefit from the speed of a Baron/C310 due to shorter mission range. Having the inline-thrust of the "push me, pull you" engine design greatly simplifies the engine-out scenarios, and having the high wing gets you better downward visibility if taking pictures in an region like Hawaii. Due to being a bit of a red-headed stepchild on the domestic side, they tend to sell for reasonable prices as well. Not much of a downside other than the reputation for being a noisy in the cabin, but noise-cancelling headphones can negate most of that.