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vkhosid

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So, I have a question for you fine gents...

So far all I have flown (for the 3 weeks that I've had my ticket) is a cessna 140, and a 172. All three (2 different 172's) have steam gauges and that's just fine for me. I do use my tablet (Samsung galaxy tab pro) for reference during the flight for things like navigation and the like. I have read on here that a lot of people are using a portable GPS receiver with their setup, and I'm curious what I should buy, what I should do, and how I should do it, as I've never really used anything like that before other than a reference to a moving map on my tablet.

So, I guess the question is quite general....what should I buy, and what will it give me? What do I need to subscribe to?...and what will it cost me?

For the time being, I am using Avare, and really like the setup...plus, you can't really beat free.

Advice, gentlemen?
 
vkhosid said:
So, I have a question for you fine gents...

So far all I have flown (for the 3 weeks that I've had my ticket) is a cessna 140, and a 172. All three (2 different 172's) have steam gauges and that's just fine for me. I do use my tablet (Samsung galaxy tab pro) for reference during the flight for things like navigation and the like. I have read on here that a lot of people are using a portable GPS receiver with their setup, and I'm curious what I should buy, what I should do, and how I should do it, as I've never really used anything like that before other than a reference to a moving map on my tablet.

So, I guess the question is quite general....what should I buy, and what will it give me? What do I need to subscribe to?...and what will it cost me?

For the time being, I am using Avare, and really like the setup...plus, you can't really beat free.

Advice, gentlemen?
Click to expand...

In my humble opinion you don't need one if you are flying VFR and have a functioning tablet.
 
MichiPilot said:
In my humble opinion you don't need one if you are flying VFR and have a functioning tablet.
Click to expand...



You don't NEED a tablet at all.

If you want the ideal tablet setup, you'll want a iPad mini retina cellular with foreflight pro, no external accessories needed.
 
James331 said:
If you want the ideal tablet setup, you'll want a iPad mini retina cellular with foreflight pro, no external accessories needed.
Click to expand...
James and I don't agree on a lot, but on this, we do. And that's exactly what I fly with. The only thing you might want to add would be a Stratus 2 ADS-B-in unit to bring weather and traffic into the cockpit.
 
Ok, let me rephrase a little bit.....given the fact that I have an android, what other accessories could I buy to make it more helpful for me when flying.

I know I don't necessarily need a tablet...I use it more as a reference for when I'm flying to airports I haven't been to yet. But, should I use it for navigation/weather/playing candy crush while flying...what accessories to it would be useful?
 
I understand you have an android tablet. ForeFlight is the better EFB, in my opinion, and it runs best on IPad. So the above advice is the best advice, however, I think Garmin Pilot will run on android.
 
You can try the Garmin pilot,if your going to continue with your ratings,you might want to go the I pad foreflight route.
 
Unless you are going to fly on strictly sunny and a million days, having WX in the plane along with traffic is a pretty handy tool set. There are plenty of days when T storms are popping and it is still plenty flyable.

You could get a used GDL39 that will BT to your tablet and subscribe to Garmin Pilot; should be < $800 and you would have both ADS-B WX and traffic in. You do have to drink the Garmin koolaid though and give up the freebie.
 
vkhosid said:
Ok, let me rephrase a little bit.....given the fact that I have an android, what other accessories could I buy to make it more helpful for me when flying.

I know I don't necessarily need a tablet...I use it more as a reference for when I'm flying to airports I haven't been to yet. But, should I use it for navigation/weather/playing candy crush while flying...what accessories to it would be useful?
Click to expand...

The most information you're going to get, weather and traffic, will come through an ADSB link. I'm not sure which devices Avare works with and if it is capable of dealing with any of it. Of the major programs, Garmin Pilot, Foreflight, or WingX, only Garmin Pilot at this point has a decent Android app, and with that the GDL-39 will provide ADSB and GPS. If you want GPS alone, there are several Bluetooth GPS units out there that all work quite fine. If you want even more information like Attitude and Heading, then you want one with an AHRS which the Garmin GDL 39 3D as well as one of the Stratus and I think there is one more, offer. The only app that takes advantage of this on the Android that I am aware of is Garmin Pilot though, and it only has a "six pack" representation rather than 3D SVT as you can get on all three apps on an iPad. Eventually this will likely change though.

I use it for weather, traffic, nav, and SVT functions, however primarily, I just spend most of my time looking out the windows. I just glance at it every now and then to see if everything is still as planned, or figure a reroute if not. The amount of information available is incredible, which is a double edged sword and you have to be careful not to get so involved in it that you lose track of what is going on out the windows. In a way these devices make flying more difficult because you have so much more information to manage in the same time frame, and sometimes the only reason you'll notice direct conflict traffic (be it plane or large bird) is because you happen to catch a momentary glint of it as you're just looking around.
 
Never depend on a toy GPS receiver.

Your tablet is great for holding charts, so long as you have a backup and you're prepared for the inevitable crashes. My Android tablet tried to bust Class B for me twice (by reporting incorrect positions) and Class D once (by crashing just outside). It failed all three times just because I don't trust it -- I always have critical frequencies written down and navigate by landmarks on the ground (VFR). And then it blew up permanently in the air while over Los Angeles airspace. The replacement iPad is somewhat better, but the GPS still gives errors that far exceed its stated accuracy whenever I measure it. The worst case was a 5 mile error at high altitude while reporting a 10m error, much better than the Android worst case (that was nearly 20 miles), but still not nearly what you need to keep from busting.

When I had Android, I used Garmin Pilot and Avare. The latter's price is right, but the interface isn't great. But remember, it is a chart-holding device and planning device, not a real-time navigation device.
 
I've only used the foreflight/stratus setup, and I really enjoy having it. A lot of people have said that the droid compatible stuff is fine, too. I inherited my daughter's old ipad, so it kinda pushed me down the foreflight path. I have a stratus 2, but you could get a stratus 1 for less. It just doesn't have the AHRS and is more prone to heat issues.

Getting in flight weather has been nice to have. Whatever gets you ADSB-in should allow you to display it.
 
Henning said:
The amount of information available is incredible, which is a double edged sword and you have to be careful not to get so involved in it that you lose track of what is going on out the windows. In a way these devices make flying more difficult because you have so much more information to manage in the same time frame, and sometimes the only reason you'll notice direct conflict traffic (be it plane or large bird) is because you happen to catch a momentary glint of it as you're just looking around.
Click to expand...
Describes my flight yesterday evening perfectly.
 
Avare works well for me, running in my old Samasung Galaxy tablet. No external GPS needed.

If you want ForeFlight, it's $75-$150 per year, and the iPad must be a cellular model to get the internal GPS already in your Galaxy, so add another $600-$750 depending on the amount of memory.

Stick with what you have. Remember, nothing you hold in your hand and take home is very dependable, only a $15,000+ IFR-certified panel mounted GPS counts for that.

For situational awareness only, Galaxy + Avare can't be beat for the price (about the same as one year of FF, which won't run on the droid system the last I checked).
 
Just like other forums I browse, and whenever this topic comes up, iFly GPS is always left out. I have no idea why. On Android, iFly blows Garmin Pilot and Avare out of the water. And, it accept ADSB products, too.

Hopefully, you read this and my post isn't buried, but you should seriously consider iFly. Either as the Android app or as their standalone product (basically a locked down tablet type device).
 
Nick just curious, what do you display traffic on your iFly with? Does it show on your moving map?

Personally I struggled with the GP route, but I already have an Aera 510 and find it highly reliable and dependable for the kind of flying I do. I've got traffic, weather, and XM Radio all in one device.
 
I too use an Android tablet (most recently a Tab Pro like the OP), and have found it to be rock solid. No overheating or rebooting (as one of the posters described for their Ipad). Quick and reliable multi-satellite lock in the plane. The Android EFB apps just about all offer a 30 day (or so) free trial period. The differences between them (IMO) are more in the interfaces and nuances of capability, not basic function. My recommendation is to use the trial time to test all your options and then decide on which you prefer.

My go-to app is Naviator. I like its interface and it has most things that I use regularly. I use FltPlanGo for the two things I like that are not yet in Naviator: Geo-referenced airport diagrams and approach plates, and IFR routings. To be fair, Naviator offers Geo-referenced plates and diagrams for a fee, but its so easy to get them through FltPlan (or Avare) for free, that I don't bother to pay the extra. Naviator also offers routings, but I find FltPlan's to be enough better that its worth using that source.

Its easy enough to use both with Android's robust multi-tasking. I find no problems with leaving both apps running and switching between them as needed.
 
Having just flown 8+ hours today on a cross country, I recommend what James and Ron have said. I second the vote for a stratus. It alone helped me immensely today.
 
iflyvfr said:
Nick just curious, what do you display traffic on your iFly with? Does it show on your moving map?

Personally I struggled with the GP route, but I already have an Aera 510 and find it highly reliable and dependable for the kind of flying I do. I've got traffic, weather, and XM Radio all in one device.
Click to expand...

I haven't purchased any ADSB add-ons yet. Just standalone iFly app on my tablet. It does show you on a moving map.

I use my phone, which runs a very old version on Android, and thus an antiquated version of Avare, but it works perfectly fine. I use this just bouncing around.

When I actually go someplace, I pull out the tablet. It's a cheap tablet and doesn't have a GPS chip, so I use an external Bluetooth GPS module. Note that this would NOT be necessary had I purchased a more expensive tablet. However, my way does have the advantage that I can velcro the GPS module to the top of the windshield, giving me awesome GPS reception, vs the tablet's internal chip.

It's a funky way of doing things, but in the end works quite well. Obstruction and airspace warnings, the whole shebang. I think I've had one hiccup with the tablet in flight, that required me to reboot it. If I'm running my tablet, I'm also running my phone at the same time, so I can fall back on that if necessary.
 
All these suggestions sound very good. And yes, I did try the iflyGPS app as well. Very similar to Avare. I don't believe the Stratus works with Avare, but I did check their website, and the XGPS170, or something like that is compatible. I believe its got an ADSB feature with it as well...
 
Gauges are fine. Avare is a good program and you're right, can't beat free! The only suggestion I would have is just spending about $50 to get a DualXGPS150 to put on the glareshield so your tablet is less likely to lose GPS signal that way and invest in a good RAM tablet mount for the yoke. You'll get a lot of utility out of that for very little expense. Don't worry about the Apple / Foreflight, blah, blah. You can consider all that jazz if you ever decide to pursue IFR, but for the time being you're fine.
 
SbestCFII said:
Gauges are fine. Avare is a good program and you're right, can't beat free! The only suggestion I would have is just spending about $50 to get a DualXGPS150 to put on the glareshield so your tablet is less likely to lose GPS signal that way and invest in a good RAM tablet mount for the yoke. You'll get a lot of utility out of that for very little expense. Don't worry about the Apple / Foreflight, blah, blah. You can consider all that jazz if you ever decide to pursue IFR, but for the time being you're fine.
Click to expand...

Well, there are pros and cons to waiting. The pro is you don't have to spend the money until then, the con is you won't learn to use it until then, which means you have twice as much to learn at the same time.
 
What about using the actual iFly GPS unit? You'll have your android tablet for all your charts, etc, but then you'll have a reliable portable Waas GPS/Moving Map for <1k.

Just a thought using your current setup.

Ha! The 520 tagline is even "A Charged-Up Brother is Born".

http://ifly.adventurepilot.com/SYSTEMS/iFly520.aspx
 
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"My radar trumps your iPad."

I've overheard such things on the radio when ATC was like "what are you doing in my airspace without permission" and the pilot is like "my screen says I'm..."

Tablets with GPS can be a great resource, but don't forget it's not an official panel avionics device and the GPS is not rated for navigation. For VFR always cross-verify your position with visual landmarks from the chart.
 
I use AVARE on my phone Galaxy S5. It is not perfect but works as advertised no need for external GPS and the price is right.

I am flying nice day VFR for the most part and basically use it as a GPS and map. The plane I rent also has a 430 in it and while I know how to use it I mainly use the direct to function with it mainly to make it easier to call how many miles out I am. I fly to look outside not inside if I can help it.
 
+1 on iPad / Foreflight. I fly with an iPad Mini Retina Cellular ($249/factory refurb). I use the stock GPS and have never had issues with but will probably add a stratus for weather soon as the t-mobile SIM I use rarely works out of the pattern.
 
I run a Nexus 9 with Garmin Pilot. I'd say it accomplishes everything I need and more. I don't need to go spend the money on an iPad for FF when what I have with GP does the same. I'd love more scratchpad pages and some of the little things FF does, but I don't need them, either.
 
vkhosid said:
So, I guess the question is quite general....what should I buy, and what will it give me? What do I need to subscribe to?...and what will it cost me?

For the time being, I am using Avare, and really like the setup...plus, you can't really beat free.
Click to expand...

If you like it, stick with it. Maybe add on a DUAL XGPS170 since it's compatible with Avare. It will give you ADS-B In (free traffic & weather, no subscription) as well as a more precise GPS (WAAS).
 
I fly with ForeFlight on an iPad (non-cellular) and a Dual external GPS and I love it. Its positional accuracy is dead nuts on. If it shows my right wing tip is abeam a tower, it is. If it shows my left wing tip abeam a highway intersection, it is. If it shows I am aligned with the extended runway center line, I am. Even so, I will give illustrated airspace boundary lines a bit of a wide berth so as not to tempt fate and the ire of ATC. No technology is perfect after all.

With a yoke mount, I never have to look away from the windshield and the outside world to fidget with unfolding and folding maps, searching through the AFD, etc. With little more than a tap and a swipe, I can find the info I need. It keeps my eyes outside more than paper charts ever did contrary to what its distractors might say.

I haven't flown with many of the other available options so I will not offer an opinion on them.
 
For a 'droid I'd go with WingX Pro7 because it's an amazing piece of aviation software - right up there with ForeFlight - and it is compatible with many different WAAS GPS/ADS-B/AHRS boxes on the market. The WAAS GPS is very accurate and doesn't lose tracking as much as the tablet's GPS will. The ADS-B in gets you weather, including radar, in flight. This alone is worth the price of a proper ADS-B receiver IMHO -- if you are going to do cross countries (and you wouldn't be a private pilot if you weren't). It also gets you traffic but that is only effective in busier terminal areas or if you have ADS-B out installed. Finally, the AHRS - it is used for synthetic vision. That is a nice-to-have option for mountain flying, at night (although the SV depictions don't show much surface map detail, which limits its usefulness at night), and as a last ditch backup in IMC. The Hilton Software page lists the many receivers with which it is compatible.

Garmin Pilot + GDL39 would be my second pick unless you have a FlightStream 210 box connected to a Garmin navigator (probably not) in which case it would be my #1 pick if that's what you're going to fly regularly.
 
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I have a used iPad mini, Foreflight and a Stratus2... and I've never felt more secure on a cross-country or even in my home area.

Foreflight seems to be the industry leader in tablet technology for flying-- with the synthetic vision capability, which I'm going to get when I renew, I can't imagine much better.

My total investment was $200 for the iPad, $150yr Pro plan on Foreflight, $995 for Stratus.

Pretty cheap by aviation standards, and well worth it, IMHO.
 
Ron Levy said:
James and I don't agree on a lot, but on this, we do. And that's exactly what I fly with. The only thing you might want to add would be a Stratus 2 ADS-B-in unit to bring weather and traffic into the cockpit.
Click to expand...

That's exactly my setup. I only use the Stratus 2 when I know there's gonna be some weather I want to keep an eye on.
 
Avare is fine and the price is right. I think Naviator for $34/year is also a super deal and I have it and iFly GPS on my Samsung 7". FlightPro [now DroidEFB] is also very good and if their legal issues are resolved, it is probably the best Android APP out there. Contrary to what some here advise, the Garmin app isn't really the top dog in the Android world, but as with iOS/stratus/foreflight, brands matter, even if those hawking have little or no real experience with them vs. other products.

I also have an iPad and really, really hate the thing. Clunky, miserable to move files into and out of the thing or to do basic things with, it treats the user like a moron and is very frustrating to use for anyone with half a brain. If one can get past the (undeserved) iPad elitism, it is plain to see the Android is really the better tablet for the VFR flyer (inexpensive, lots of free software, more size options, better interface, SD memory upgradable, built in GPS, etc.). Possibly the IFR flyer too, but I can't speak to that.

If you'd like ADS-B IN, the XGPS170 works great and unlike iOS machines, an Android tablet will pair Bluetooth devices automatically. It is nice on a long XC to look at METARs ahead or to have TFR info on your screen.

All of the Android apps (cept Garmin) will work with just about all of the ADS-B receivers. On my tablet, I usually have an XGPS170 streaming ADS-B into the app I'm running, and my Zaon XRX bluetooth's traffic to the tablet too, giving a fairly decent picture of traffic. I also bluetooth music from my android tablet to my Audio Panel.
 
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iflyvfr said:
Unless you are going to fly on strictly sunny and a million days, having WX in the plane along with traffic is a pretty handy tool set. There are plenty of days when T storms are popping and it is still plenty valuable.
Click to expand...

Typical Summer weather.:yes:
 
I personally believe that you should spend some time with an E6B, a plotter and a chart for awhile. Once you feel proficient, then move to an IPad and Foreflight.

Well, you asked, so that's my $0.02,
 
JohnAJohnson said:
Avare is fine and the price is right. I think Naviator for $34/year is also a super deal and I have it and iFly GPS on my Samsung 7". FlightPro [now DroidEFB] is also very good and if their legal issues are resolved, it is probably the best Android APP out there. Contrary to what some here advise, the Garmin app isn't really the top dog in the Android world, but as with iOS/stratus/foreflight, brands matter, even if those hawking have little or no real experience with them vs. other products.

I also have an iPad and really, really hate the thing. Clunky, miserable to move files into and out of the thing or to do basic things with, it treats the user like a moron and is very frustrating to use for anyone with half a brain. If one can get past the (undeserved) iPad elitism, it is plain to see the Android is really the better tablet for the VFR flyer (inexpensive, lots of free software, more size options, better interface, SD memory upgradable, built in GPS, etc.). Possibly the IFR flyer too, but I can't speak to that.

If you'd like ADS-B IN, the XGPS170 works great and unlike iOS machines, an Android tablet will pair Bluetooth devices automatically. It is nice on a long XC to look at METARs ahead or to have TFR info on your screen.

All of the Android apps (cept Garmin) will work with just about all of the ADS-B receivers. On my tablet, I usually have an XGPS170 streaming ADS-B into the app I'm running, and my Zaon XRX bluetooth's traffic to the tablet too, giving a fairly decent picture of traffic. I also bluetooth music from my android tablet to my Audio Panel.
Click to expand...

:confused: With lots of computer, software application development going back to 1974, including LOTS of experience with Bill Gates stuff going back to DOS 1.15, I see dealing with the IPad like falling off a log.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I personally believe that you should spend some time with an E6B, a plotter and a chart for awhile. Once you feel proficient, then move to an IPad and Foreflight.

Well, you asked, so that's my $0.02,
Click to expand...

True, one should always have proficiency with the fundamentals. Even with a glass panel there were times I was reaching back into my box of charts. Sometimes it's faster and easier than to use electronic gizmos.
 
I just made a flight through northern florida and avoided a few large areas of heavy precip. The stratus made that trip doable for me. The GPS is awesome, but the on board weather is awesomer IMO.

flightawaremap_zpsrq5tswat.jpg
 
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