Heli crash NYC

What did I just watch? :confused:
 
Spatial disorientation??
For ppl that have flown both planes and choppers. Is Spatial disorientation a lot worse I a helicopter??
 
benyflyguy said:
Spatial disorientation??
For ppl that have flown both planes and choppers. Is Spatial disorientation a lot worse I a helicopter??
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No difference. You generally ride slightly nose down at cruise and the vibration is worse but spatial d is spatial d. Happens in both airframes.

I’d say this, there are some helos that without stability augmentation they would be a serious challenge to fly in IMC vs fixed wing. I’d be willing to bet SAS / autopilot is standard on an AW109 though.
 
Warlock said:
This video reported to be the Agusta prior to the "Emergency Landing" if accurate kind of raises a lot of questions...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1138151396996521984
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That guy is near vertical dive! But recovers and seems to be making fine power. Wonder what preceded the video?? What did the guy taking vid see that made him pull the camera out that we miss. Health issue?
 
I’ve got about 1000 hours in an a109e.

Lots of things to speculate on but I know that they all have autopilot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Commercial rotorcraft ticket, private fixed wing, rotorcraft instructor, no mention of instrument rating.
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Some of the comments in the articles are disturbing, one lady wonders why anyone is allowed to fly over Manhattan, should've been banned years ago.
We need to stop doing stupid things.
 
Flight was actually already banned over Manhattan in the area in question because of the TFR around Trump Tower so clearly more “rules” restricting flight in that area wouldn’t have prevented whatever unfortunate series of events unfolded yesterday.
 
rocketflyer84 said:
Flight was actually already banned over Manhattan in the area in question because of the TFR around Trump Tower so clearly more “rules” restricting flight in that area wouldn’t have prevented whatever unfortunate series of events unfolded yesterday.
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We frequently get waivers to operate within the Trump Tower TFR, but this flight had no such waiver in place.
 
This is sad...watched a news report calling him a hero for putting it into the roof rather than the street...I have never flown that route but done it several times in a boat so I am familiar with it...my sense in the end is this guy is far from a hero...
 
The swiss cheese layers aligned once again... severe spatial disorientation along with some form of incapacitation would be my guess. He wasn't too old for a cardiac event, which can and does happen to middle aged people who appear fit.

Flying that kind of equipment in that kind of airspace without an instrument rating is inexplicable.
 
Warlock said:
This is sad...watched a news report calling him a hero for putting it into the roof rather than the street...I have never flown that route but done it several times in a boat so I am familiar with it...my sense in the end is this guy is far from a hero...
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Odds are, he was coming down with no idea of an impact area. The fact that he hit a rooftop and didn’t plummet into the street below, was pure luck.
 
Piperonca said:
Flying that kind of equipment in that kind of airspace without an instrument rating is inexplicable.
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Nothing wrong with that kind of equipment in that kind of airspace without an IR, just not in that kind of weather.
 
Weather at LaGuardia was also IMC (ceiling 800 feet, visibility 1-1/2 miles) near time of accident. I believe rotorcraft have the same VFR minimums as fixed wing for this situation (does anyone know different?). If the post about pilot not having instrument rating is accurate, that would put VFR flight into IMC way up there on the list of possible causes.
 
Mike I said:
Nothing wrong with that kind of equipment in that kind of airspace without an IR, just not in that kind of weather.
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Maybe so, but I am of the opinion that having the rating, and most importantly being able to use it, is insurance a professional can afford. I have seen way too much death from scud running. It is so heart breaking and unnecessary. Even with the pros, the line between flyable and un-flyable weather is obscure (forgive the expression). Get a clearance, save a life.
 
I think the Twitter video shows a large change in rotor RPM before the second uncontrolled descent. It's visible because the camera's frames per second rate stays constant, and the invisible rotor disc changes to one where the individual blades can be seen.

That seems to indicate a mechanical failure of some sort.

As for the "hero" aspect, it appears the pilot regained some measure of control after the initial vertical descent, but that may have been a fleeting condition. If he was able to purposely hit the building rather than crashing onto the streets, that's commendable. A crash at street level would have almost certainly caused more deaths.
 
3393RP said:
I think the Twitter video shows a large change in rotor RPM before the second uncontrolled descent. It's visible because the camera's frames per second rate stays constant, and the invisible rotor disc changes to one where the individual blades can be seen.

That seems to indicate a mechanical failure of some sort.

As for the "hero" aspect, it appears the pilot regained some measure of control after the initial vertical descent, but that may have been a fleeting condition. If he was able to purposely hit the building rather than crashing onto the streets, that's commendable. A crash at street level would have almost certainly caused more deaths.
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The rotor rpm is thru the roof because he’s descending rapidly and thus off loading the blades. You can also hear the increased noise from blades either simply because of speed or blade vortex interaction (BVI).

I suppose a mechanical failure such as a collective hardover could happen and carry him into the clouds. With 2 independent hyd systems, I it would be remote. If he did have partial control, at least to hit a building vs street, then why head towards Manhattan in the first place? Should have stayed over the water and taken your chances there.
 
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Velocity173 said:
The rotor rpm is thru the roof because he’s descending rapidly and thus off loading the blades. You can also hear the increased noise from blades either simply because of speed or blade vortex interaction (BVI).

I suppose a mechanical failure such as a collective hardover could happen and carry him into the clouds. With 2 independent hyd systems, I it would be remote. If he did have partial control, at least to hit a building vs street, then why head towards Manhattan in the first place? Should have stayed over the water and taken your chances there.

With or without an instrument ticket, he shouldn’t have been out in that weather anyway.
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Seems like he was diving IMC and into VMC gained control but climbed back into IMC again controlled for a bit until he didn’t.
 
benyflyguy said:
Seems like he was diving IMC and into VMC gained control but climbed back into IMC again controlled for a bit until he didn’t.
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That’s my observation as well. What’s confusing is to why he climbed back into the clouds. To be honest, I’ve never heard of a mech failure that forced a climb. Never met anyone who’s had a collective hard over or a complete hyd fail in an helicopter that can’t be controlled with no hydraulics. I suppose anything is possible. Heck, could have dual controls in and something got wedged beneath the other collective.

Based on the weather and lack of instrument ticket, I think most can draw a logical conclusion of what happened.
 
Word on the street and local media is he was waiting at the 34th Street heliport with rotors turning waiting on weather to return to home base 18 miles away. Supposedly saw a break and took off only to turn around. The videos are from after his turn around. This incident is oddly similar to the London UK 109 that flew around in fog/weather and hit a crane.
 
Bell206 said:
Word on the street and local media is he was waiting at the 34th Street heliport with rotors turning waiting on weather to return to home base 18 miles away. Supposedly saw a break and took off only to turn around. The videos are from after his turn around. This incident is oddly similar to the London UK 109 that flew around in fog/weather and hit a crane.
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Once he was out I don't know why he went back up, unless he really wasn't out, or didn't look. Sad story, now there are pols demanding "unnecessary" flights be banned over Manhattan.
 
Bell206 said:
Word on the street and local media is he was waiting at the 34th Street heliport with rotors turning waiting on weather to return to home base 18 miles away. Supposedly saw a break and took off only to turn around. The videos are from after his turn around. This incident is oddly similar to the London UK 109 that flew around in fog/weather and hit a crane.
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Yes, not too different from the Vauxhall incident.
 
Bell206 said:
Word on the street and local media is he was waiting at the 34th Street heliport with rotors turning waiting on weather to return to home base 18 miles away. Supposedly saw a break and took off only to turn around. The videos are from after his turn around.
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If true (since it's only "word on the street at this point"), declaring an emergency probably would have saved the pilot's life. With the reported pilot experience, he must have known what fequency to use, or was already monitoring it.
 
PaulS said:
Once he was out I don't know why he went back up,
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It's my understanding the dive in the videos is how he exited the clouds initially. No telling what happened in the clouds prior to initiate that dive and it's subsequent affect on the pilot.
 
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