Have You Experienced An Engine Failure?

6,700 hours.
1 Complete loss of jet engine. It was severe damage and seizure at 700’ on climb out due to internal destruction.
1 cylinder failed in flight resulting in mild vibration. Landed, but probably could have continued to destination. Yanked the cylinder myself. Drove 200mi to purchase a cheap pos “serviceable” cyl from an engine shop. It got me home, but eventually had to be replaced again with a quality cyl assembly.
 
chemgeek said:
Emergency training is very important. You may never need it, but when you have an emergency, you want to know what to do, and know that you know what to do so you can stay calm and collected.
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Exactly why I'm focused on this. I actually said to my CFI yesterday that I don't worry so much about me, but if my family was behind me . . . I need to know this stuff cold, because I'll be the only person in the plane with a chance of being calm. If it ever happens, I'll need to fall back on my training immediately and perfectly.

Reflecting on these responses today, I think I'm going to ask for some Redbird time simulating only absolute worst case scenarios. Flying through actual failures would probably calm me down.
 
Yes. Engine quit completely in my Mooney at 9,000’ over eastern Virginia. ATC found me an airstrip to safely land at. Mag issue. Nothing I could have done.
Shut down one on my 414 due to low oil pressure. I was only 10 miles from my home airport, so turned around and landed there. This was much less stressful than the Mooney incident.
Whatever you do should this unlikely event happen to you, fly the plane until it’s stopped.
 
I was in an Arrow IV when the engine quit on the turn to final. Flipping the electric fuel pump on and changing the fuel tanks brought it back to life. The electric pump should have already been on per checklist and the pilot should have changed to the fullest tank.
 
PaulS said:
I'm a firm believer that many times, not all, engines talk to you before they fail, if you listen...Listen to and believe your engine.
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Absolutely agree. I think it is exceedingly rare that well-maintained and monitored engines fail suddenly. One of the prime motivators for personal ownership is getting to know your airplane. Changing power output or oil consumption are early red flags. One of the most important things you can do to reduce the chances of engine failure is to properly and proactively maintain an engine, and, as I have learned, mags. The most annoying sudden failures I've experienced have been mags, and in one case, a failed spinner (due to poor maintenance and inspection by the shop I no longer use). Deterioriating top and bottom ends have always offered ample warning.
 
Two, both in old, poorly-maintained airplanes. The first when the carburetor fell off; it was a downdraft carb on a Gipsy Major engine, and the hardware hadn't been lockwired. It came loose and I heard a peculiar howl at idle that went away when I opened the throttle so figured it was OK. Young people are like that. I was maybe 25. The howl was the carb gasket acting like a reed on a clarinet. The bolts worked their way out in flight, all but one, which backed mostly out, and when I closed the throttle the linkage pulled the carb off its manifold flange. Made the runway. No damage.

The other was a crankshaft breaking in flight, at 400 feet. Planted in a nearby field, no damage. An old propstrike had started a crack in the crank, and nobody had torn it down for a check.

I later bought the first airplane to restore after it quit on an unluckier pilot. Damaged it. I had quit flying it due to stuff I found. When I took the fabric off the wings I found a cracked spar and five out of eight diagonal brace wires broken. I had been flying it like that. Nobody was inspecting it very well at all.

I once flew a 172 that had just had an "annual." By the time I got home with it I had a long snag list, maybe 30 items, in an hour's flight. Just from flying it. By the time we had gone through it we had 138 items, things like missing nuts on the lower strut attach bolts and the front horizontal stab spar broken completely through.

Stuff like this made me a really cynical and careful mechanic, and it's the reason I harp so much on some of the stuff you guys complain about, stuff that should have easily been caught at the last annual, if not years before. So many "annuals" appear to be nothing more than walkarounds and a signature.
 
Dan Thomas said:
So many "annuals" appear to be nothing more than walkarounds and a signature.
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It was good the last time I checked it, and since I haven't changed anything, I'm sure it is fine now...
 
chemgeek said:
One of the most important things you can do to reduce the chances of engine failure is to properly and proactively maintain an engine, and, as I have learned, mags. The most annoying sudden failures I've experienced have been mags, and in one case, a failed spinner (due to poor maintenance and inspection by the shop I no longer use). Deterioriating top and bottom ends have always offered ample warning.
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Mags are the biggest hassle in most cases. It's why Slick (now Champion) and Bendix (now CMI) insist on regular removal and internal inspection. It's also the reason we have two of them. Like other electrical stuff, it fails or gives trouble far more often than fuel systems. We don't generally need two carbs or fuel injection systems, but we sure need two mags.

And it's the reason we have that mag switch; that switch isn't just for checking the mags in the runup and shutting them off after the flight. It's there to shut off a mag gone rogue, firing the wrong cylinders at the right or wrong times. Worn plastic distributor gears can do that. A rogue mag can just about kill the engine, while shutting it off saves everything. And everybody.

Those things need inspecting.
 
PaulS said:
I'm a firm believer that many times, not all, engines talk to you before they fail, if you listen. I was in a fairly new SR-20 for a lesson one morning, on startup the engine sounded like a metallic machine gun for over a minute, then settled down. We weren't sure what was up, but we shut it down, got out, looked for oil leaks and holes in the crankcase. Then my instructor called the mechanic. The airplane was going in for a 100 hour the next morning. Since the noise stopped, he told us to restart, do a full power runup and if it was running ok, we should be ok and that he would check it out in the morning. So we did the runup, the engine was fine, and we did the lesson. A few days later I hear that the engine needed 3 new cylinders and that at least one valve was burned. That noise was the valve sticking.

That's as close as I have come. Listen to and believe your engine.
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One of our local pilots has been flying the Idaho Back Country almost 75 years. Claims to have more than 80 forced landings. Wrote a book “Adventures of an Idaho Mountain Pilot”. Is a very good read.

One of the big take always from his book is that engines/airplanes do talk to you and usually give warnings before they just fail. You just have to learn to listen to them.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Early in my flying career I was flying back from Vegas in a rental to the west towards LA. Lots of mountains. The plane didn’t seem to be producing full power but I chalked it up to density altitude. I squawked it after landing. Got a call the next morning with followup questions. That’s when I learned one of the valves broke and had been rubbing a hole. The mechanic suggested it was under an hour before something catastrophic would have happened. Lesson learned- turn back if it doesn’t feel right.
 
Just one total engine failure that I can recall since 1975. I was paid to ferry a crop-duster from Nassau, Bahamas back to Opa Locka, FL. It had crashed when it had lost power when the pilot switched tanks over the airport and he had misjudged and come up short of the runway. The engine quit totally on me at maybe 300' to 500', enough for me to land on the remaining runway. I think it was diagnosed as clogged injectors - fuel that was being fed from the hopper was eating away at sealant which was getting sucked into the injectors. As an aside, after it was "fixed" I was later tasked with flying it back again, and had gradual power loss during the flight, causing me to divert to, and barely make, Bimini. Likely clogged injectors again.

Other than that, partial or temporary losses...

In a Cub, due to carb ice.
In my Tiger, due to a frozen exhaust valve.
In a Cirrus, due to vapor lock.
Not a power loss, but emergency declared due to a strong burning rubber smell in either my Traveler or my Tiger - I forget which - due to a seized alternator.
In my Sky Arrow, due to silicone sealant making its way to my main jets (I think).

Probably others, but that's all I think of right now over 6,900 hours or so.
 
Over the Ohio River and Downtown Cincinnati, the Cherokee 180 ate a valve. Power enough to turn the prop at idle and nothing more. Landed at CVG, parked, called my brother to bring a case of beer and take me home.

Cheers
 
My new to me Debonair ate an exhaust valve right after takeoff, just about 330’. Not a fun day or few months.
 
I had 4 in total, 3 in GA aircraft.
The first was due to the mixture bowden cable defective ( internal side ) 27 hrs after a major inspection. Engine fail in cruise at 2000 AGL.
The second one was due to the fuel line separation ( aluminum AN fitting on firewall ) during take off.
The third one was due to carburator icing, fligying on top at 12.000 ft. Engine restart at 3700 ft.
 
2 precautionary shutdowns of turbojet engines, a third which was close to requiring a shutdown but we landed. One piston engine "failure," which is a bit of an exaggeration, really.

Engines are fairly reliable, but in terms of safety, two of any type of engine trumps one of any kind of engine in my book. That includes two piston engines being more desirable than a single turbine engine. That's just my personal opinion based on my experiences.
 
C-414, one night climbing out of Albuquerque and through 11,000 msl I noticed the right engine was showing ''O'' oil pressure so I shut it down and secured it, then returned to ABQ.

Not engine related, but once in a 414 as I put the gear handle up, the gear shut off halfway up. I would not go up or down. Using the mirror, I could see the nose gear at the halfway position. So I blew the gear down, landed and we switched to another plane. Turned out the wire supplying power to the gear pump broke.

In singles I have had a couple of mag failures with a little loss of power. Turn off the offending mag and return to base. Once I had a mag switch short out. At first I thought it was a complete engine failure so I went through the flow. I then discovered that playing with the key switch (cessna) I could get the engine back to life. So once I found that position, I held it in place with my left hand and returned to base flying with my right hand. Not really a problem doing that in a 207, until talking on the radio. All of these was in a C-207, in Alaska in winter.

Approximately 9800 hours total time.
 
Engine stopped 100 ft up on takeoff. Did the big push. Landed off field on the mains. Nose wheel dug in causing the plane to flip on its back. Went and got another plane. I had maybe 100 hrs. TT pic
 
No failures myself, just minor issues causing rough running. But I'm in claims, and deal with various engine failures and accidents for a living. Some maintenance shop screw ups, some pure failures, some pilot error, some a combination of both. I've seen some lucky endings where people walk away unscathed, and I've seen the other end of the spectrum as well. Jets, pistons, helos, CFIs, ATPs, private pilots. No one is immune.

It does certainly affect how I approach flying. I have a young family and have seen whole families get wiped out in crashes. But virtually all the time it was a sequence of events that lead to this outcome- engine failure or icing in bad weather, or night, VMC into IMC, etc.

The best way to mitigate the risk is to know your aircraft, know your limitations. Maybe it's not a good idea to fly your whole family at night up to the mountains, or bad weather. Don't buzz the hotties on the beach, stay at altitude in case you do have a failure. Do you have a plan for engine failure on takeoff? One of my instructors beat it into me to brief takeoff engine failures during run up, on the runway, below 800 feet, about 800 feet. Did you just pick up your aircraft from the shop? How about running it up longer, check gauges, is oil spewing out on the ramp?

It's a risk in aviation, the best you can do is mitigate it as much as possible, try to give yourself a big safety margin, and plan for when things go wrong.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Slacker.
http://www.harrishillsoaring.org/doc/Kai_Off-airport_Ldgs.pdf
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I wasn't counting glider off airport landings. I have done about a dozen off-airport (glider forced) landings. I agree with good planning (plan B and C) there is not a lot of luck involved good or bad in a successful forced landing. There of course is some, soft ground, ditches, fences, but worst case this is just damage to the aircraft, injuries are extremely rare if you can get the wheels down and rolling. I am sure the document above covers much of the planning, risks and considerations for a successful off airport landing.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
I had a total engine failure in a Piper Tomahawk that was owned by the student I was instructing at the time. This was in the early 90's. He had purchased the Tomahawk from Bolivar Aviation a large flight school that went out of business. It had over 10,000tt & was pretty rough. I owned the FBO & the two other CFI's that worked for me were nervous about flying in a Tomahawk so I assigned myself the task. They were both low-time new CFI's.

We were on a cross country headed into northern WA state near the Columbia River. The terrain was mostly dry land farms but most had large boulders in them. When the engine started running a bit rough & the old temp was higher than usual I got "that" feeling & told the student we needed to turn back toward the small airport that we had just overflown. No sooner had the words left my lips that the engine quit running.

We made it to the small airport dead-stick & the engine had a huge hole in the side of the case. All fairly routine actually.

I have around 6,000tt since 1972 when I started as a young teen.
 
One engine failure, five transmission failures and one swashplate failure.

One landing gear failure.

But the scariest was the relief tube failure...
 
as others have mentioned, pre-take off briefing is extremely important. have a plan in place before you need it, especially at take off. I am around a lot of farmers fields, so i have the luxury of choosing one over another, but when going somewhere i usually fire up google earth and get myself accustomed with the area around the airport where i can land in case SHTF.

one thing my CFI and few other highly experienced pilots taught me:

  • Use entire runway - i follow this no matter what. the only exception i would make is taking rny 36 at KFAR, i will depart from Bravo 3 intersection since there is nothing but fields where i can land safely. in any and all other cases, so far i havent accepted a single intersection take-off, that includes some fairly busy delta and a charlie. just last sunday i was in grand forks and they have me the crappy short parallel to land, i was doing stop and go, asked to taki-back. tower was cool with it, but thrown in a suggestion "you can take off from where you are, warriors do it all day long". i declined, there is a lake at the end of the runway and i wast going to make things worse by landing in a lake when the engine quits, so i taxi-ed back. the point is, dont feel pressured, its your arse on the line.
  • give yourself option when going cross country - i always plan at least 2 airports between my source and destination airport. i will either fly over them or stay in gliding distance. thats where i would change my fuel tanks. it also gives me accurate weather that i can monitor and if need be land and wait out something. doesnt work out all the time, sometime i fly over places where there is nothing but trees under me, but i try to plan in a way that i have a few options. I understand this is highly debatable and i am sure some people will say planes were made to go from point A to B, thats fine, i am just saying this is my arse and my logic. when i plan for 2 or more airports in my plan, it might add mere 5-6 mins to my flight, but gives me more options when things go wrong. i am also fairly certain someday Murphy will throw a wrench in my plan and laugh his arse off.

close to 400 hours, no engine failures yet.
 
Two stuck exhaust valves in different cylinders over a one month period. Engine was a Continental O-300-C (six cylinders) so moderate shaking/vibration and partial loss of power. Reduced power to minimize shaking and landed at closest airport where A&P used the rope trick to get the valves unstuck both times. Soon after these experiences I replaced all six TCM OEM cylinders with ECi Titans which have valve rotators and never again had stuck valve problems.
 
Yup, totally unannounced. A “new” thielert 1,7 JET A1 engine in a DA40 exploded. It was during cruise at 1300ft or so. Textbook landing In a field and no damage to the plane and no injuries to me and my passenger.

The cause.. they say there was a piece of protection skin from one of the cables in the engine, it made the cilinder stuck. But this conclusion was not accepted by my countries investigation board.

Since then a little more alert for potential emergency landing spots...
 
Something to mention on mag issues. Mags should be rebuilt or replaced every 500 hours. The vast majority of mag issues are mags well past that limit. It’s one of the most ignored maintenance items.
 
Jeff767 said:
Something to mention on mag issues. Mags should be rebuilt or replaced every 500 hours. The vast majority of mag issues are mags well past that limit. It’s one of the most ignored maintenance items.
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Mags are problematic even without the 500 hour lifespan. I didn't even count the magneto failures in my list of engine failures.
 
Sort of..

In the descent direct to Mount Soledad over the water I went to advance the power to level off and I wasn't getting any juice and the engine sounded really odd.. fuel flow was like 4

Fuel pump was already on so my hand immediately went to the mixture knob, which was almost fully retarded and my dad's headset cable was around it. Somehow during the flight he had managed to get the cable around the mixture knob and at some point pulled it way back

The engine never totally died but it was certainly on the brink.. advancing the mixture it roared right back to life

Lesson learned.. when flying a Cirrus with a right seater who is unfamiliar with the plane be vigilant of the mixture and keep it clear. I really wish it had a small guard around it

I was proud though that this mixture advance occurred almost without thinking. My hand just shot there and pushed it up
 
dennisc172 said:
cruise at 1300ft
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Is this meant to be in meters or meant to be 13,000 ft? 1,300 is a very low "cruise" altitude and a peculiar number

I thought Diamond used Austro engines?

Either way, glad they made it!
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
2000 MSL puts me at about 1300 AGL around here. Pretty typical altitude when you are under class B.
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Here in the Netherlands we have very restricted airspace. The whole area around Schiphol / Amsterdam has Class A starting from 1500ft to protect their arrivals and departures, in my opinion way too large Class A but OK... Flat land, so 1300 ft is 1300 AGL.

Austro are the newest Diamond JET A1 engines. The older ones use Thielert (nowadays Centurion Thielert) engines. The 1.7 I had was one of the first ones, although it had no more then 1000 hours on it as I remember it well.

Thanks!
 
I'm learning a lot in this thread. Thank you for sharing.
  • I listened to an FAA safety webinar today (Engine Failure After Takeoff) where they mentioned the FAA wants flight instructors to demonstrate and teach students on when to consider making 180-degree turnbacks with engine faliure on takeoff. It's discussed in Advisory Circular AC 61-83J Appendix A.11.4 Return to Field/Engine Failure on Takeoff. What do people think about this?
  • I'm a bit surprised by the number of engine failures. Does anyone know the engine failure rate of aircraft engines vs automobile engines per mile? I see some experimental planes have used automobile engines, would that increase or decrease engine failure rate?
 
elvisAteMySandwich said:
I see some experimental planes have used automobile engines, would that increase or decrease engine failure rate?
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There have been studies of auto engine conversions - the failure rate is higher for auto engines, but it is often due to a reduction unit, cooling system, fuel system, etc. The "not from the car" stuff.
 
elvisAteMySandwich said:
I'm a bit surprised by the number of engine failures
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Keep in mind also that many failures are the result of prolonged poor operating techniques by the pilot. Pilots tend to be control freaks and have a "simpler is better" mindset (understandably, less things to break).. so engine tech stays very simple and analog. However because of this you're asking, or rather, requiring, the pilot to also play Mr Fadec while flying the plane. It's no surprise that everyone has different ground and flight leaning techniques, different hot start techniques, different (and mostly incorrect opinions and understandings of what "lean of peak" means), different carb heat ice use philosophy, etc. It's also not that surprising to me in turn when people kill their own otherwise perfectly good engines

A turbine is more reliable for many reasons, but also, in my opinion, mostly because it's generally harder for the pilot to destroy it. I've heard this from many jet pilots that while the whole machine is more complex and demands more from a pilot than a Skyhawk, the actual engine management is much easier
 
I've had a stuck valve a couple of times, same airplane different cylinders. Both times lost about 100-150 rpm, just enough engine roughness to get your attention without causing panic. First time I wasn't really sure what the issue was, tried carb heat, mixture, fuel pump, all the games. Honestly it presented similar to carb ice or a fouled plug. Second time identified it immediately and returned to land.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I've had a stuck valve a couple of times
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What's the usual culprit here? You hear a lot about "stuck valve partial power loss" scenarios. Dumb luck or are there some "go-to" causes?
 
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