Have AOA indicators killed more people than they've saved?

NoHeat

NoHeat

Final Approach
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A total of 346 people were killed as a result of bad indications from Rockwell-Collins angle-of-attack gauges, which triggered Boeing's software to crash airliners full of people. The total of 346 deaths includes 189 on Lion Air Flight 610, and 157 on Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302.

So here's my question:

Have AOA indicators killed more people than they've saved?

Or put the other way around, have they saved more than 346 lives they've killed, up till now, anywhere in the world?
 
I’m not certain there’s any measureable statistics on this, but my educated guess says that they’ve SAVED more lives than they’ve taken away.

I could be wrong, but I’m not aware of any prior accidents that have been the direct result of an AoA indicator.
 
AoA indicators did not contribute to the crash, AoA sensors did.

A stall warning horn is a type of AoA sensor. I would say those have probably saved more than 346 people.
 
Where is Maui Wowie when we need him?

sorry @NoHeat = the question is, for lack of another word, stupid. What's your data point for saves?

hmm.. 2 flights of the 737 max went down. That's tragic.

2 of How many? I've personally rode on 2 that got there and back. I don't think that is like winning the lottery by a long shot.

C'mon.
 
On a serious note, I’ve been wondering- with AOA indicator, ASI, stall horn, and visual as 4 separate inputs to my brain, if it would be all too easy to just get used to AOA and start to ignore the other 3 inputs more and more...then I’d be set up for a single failure leading me down the path to a low altitude stall/spin. That’s my only negative to an AOA indicator- that I personally would get so used to using it that it would become a handicap - right now I only have the other 3 tools and I use them all to cross-check.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
On a serious note, I’ve been wondering- with AOA indicator, ASI, stall horn, and visual as 4 separate inputs to my brain, if it would be all too easy to just get used to AOA and start to ignore the other 3 inputs more and more...then I’d be set up for a single failure leading me down the path to a low altitude stall/spin. That’s my only negative to an AOA indicator- that I personally would get so used to using it that it would become a handicap - right now I only have the other 3 tools and I use them all to cross-check.
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That french guy always posting sandbar landing has his stall horn howling in every vid... pretty sure he is flying AoA.
 
Unit74 said:
That french guy always posting sandbar landing has his stall horn howling in every vid... pretty sure he is flying AoA.
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Not necessarily. Stall horns are normally set to sound at 5 to 10 knots above the stall break, and if a short-field landing is being done properly the stall horn will be sounding shortly before touchdown. That way you're not trying to get rid of excess speed in ground effect, a very common problem among GA pilots, leading to flat-spotted tires, runway overruns, wheelbarrowing, and nosewheel shimmy problems.
 
I would suspect GA aircraft equipped with AOA have higher accident rates, but that is not attributable to the indicator.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Not necessarily. Stall horns are normally set to sound at 5 to 10 knots above the stall break, and if a short-field landing is being done properly the stall horn will be sounding shortly before touchdown. That way you're not trying to get rid of excess speed in ground effect, a very common problem among GA pilots, leading to flat-spotted tires, runway overruns, wheelbarrowing, and nosewheel shimmy problems.
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Uh, Yea... Have you watched his vids? He's on the horn weeeelllll before touchdown.
 
NoHeat said:
bad indications from Rockwell-Collins angle-of-attack gauges(sic)
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Are AoA vanes the only aircraft parts from which you expect a 0% failure rate or do you expect that from every part on the airplane?

IOW, perhaps such failures are going to happen so the crews should be able to handle the failure of such a component, or an engine failure, or a flap failure, or an FMS failure, etc.
 
I flew a C-206 that had an AoA indicator in it. All it did for me was tell me I was doing it right already. Nothing it did made me change anything I was doing.
 
Unit74 said:
Uh, Yea... Have you watched his vids? He's on the horn weeeelllll before touchdown.
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FIve to ten knots above stall, in a 172, let's say, means that the horn could sound at 50 knots indicated with flaps full down. That equates to 1.25 Vso. 1.3 Vso is standard approach speed for many light aircraft. I towed gliders in the 1970s (with an Auster AOP 6) and regularly came over the fence at 1.1 Vso, and plenty of experienced bush pilots do the same. That horn could be sounding way out on final.

Or his stall warning could be way off, too. I have found that with airplanes modified with leading edge cuffs, where the installer didn't get the vane (or port) set properly, and the horn sounds at 15 knots above stall.
 
He has a full STOL kit on it. Prob could fly backwards if he wanted....
 
MotoAdve, 'the french guy,' has substantial STOL mods to his aircraft, too.
[Whoops - redundant post - sorry!]
 
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