Hangar used for storage not aircraft

brien23

brien23

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Brien
Isn't their something about airports that take federal money and control aircraft hangar's for rent to rent them for aircraft use not for cheap storage or other than aircraft.
 
When the hangar is being use for it's intended purpose then grant assurances are met.
 
Makes me mad to see folks use their hangar for storing boats, commercial goods, cars, or use them as a shop for non related aviation business.

Happens all the time. Some folks are just shady.

I can point out several hangars on the field that have not had a plane in them for years
 
brien23 said:
Isn't their something about airports that take federal money and control aircraft hangar's for rent to rent them for aircraft use not for cheap storage or other than aircraft.
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Yes. See: https://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_compliance/hangar_use/

One can keep a plane and their car or other non-aviation item in the same hangar. An airport with a waiting list of aircraft may be in violation if there are rented hangars being used only to store non-aviation items. Most people consider a plane that is being built/repaired/rebuilt in a hangar to be in compliance, as such planes often look initially like a pile of sheet metal or wood and a bunch of tools.
 
I see a number of hangars at my airport where there's a "placeholder" aircraft that hasn't flown for decades, with all manner of crap packed around it. Cheaper than renting a storage unit of that size, by a long shot.
 
yeah, subject's a sore spot for me. I think I may have ruffled feathers locally by suggesting there may be subleasing going on, but I guess that's what I get for having a penchant for speaking my mind. Going on a year and no peep about the waiting list. It's not paranoia when you're right though :goofy::fingerwag:

Another benefit of not having a cosmetically valuable airplane I guess. The storage situation is certainly disheartening in this avocation, to say the least. Not as frustrating as not having the EXAB allowances extended to us low hull value spam can owners, but a real close second for me...
 
I saw a hangar that I think the guy was running a cabinet business out of. Dozens and dozens of boxes with large cabinets in them. Plane parked out on the tarmac....
 
I was at an airport today where the hangars are condos each hangar is privately owned. the airport has grant assurances, and the FAA tried to enforce the grant assurances and was told to get lost, it was a private building and paid their rent on the property, they never heard another word from the airport managers or the FAA. The fire inspectors tried to inspect, and were told to get a search warrant, they never came back either.
 
Tom-D said:
I was at an airport today where the hangars are condos each hangar is privately owned. the airport has grant assurances, and the FAA tried to enforce the grant assurances and was told to get lost, it was a private building and paid their rent on the property, they never heard another word from the airport managers or the FAA. The fire inspectors tried to inspect, and were told to get a search warrant, they never came back either.
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Actually an administrative warrant to conduct a code inspection is not difficult to obtain as probable cause is not a requirement.
 
I guess I'm an outlier. I'm still on a waiting list for a hangar, none available here. I don't know how non aviation rentals happen here. Hangars are not cheap, by any stretch. Having said that, there's a hangar here with multiple Ferraris (older) in it. A much larger hangar than I could afford.
 
Clip4 said:
Actually an administrative warrant to conduct a code inspection is not difficult to obtain as probable cause is not a requirement.
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It is all in the way the land lease is written.

But better yet, Diamond point airport all property is privately owned, the runway is owned by the HOA, but the HOA has no authority over private property, just the runway and the club house.
 
Tom-D said:
It is all in the way the land lease is written.

But better yet, Diamond point airport all property is privately owned, the runway is owned by the HOA, but the HOA has no authority over private property, just the runway and the club house.
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That depends on the HOA rules & covenents. Some HOA covenents specify terms of storage of, say, recreational vehicles for example, in a yard. Without reading the covenant, you really can't say just what authority they do have over the private property.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
That depends on the HOA rules & covenents. Some HOA covenents specify terms of storage of, say, recreational vehicles for example, in a yard. Without reading the covenant, you really can't say just what authority they do have over the private property.
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You didn't read my post did you.
I own property there. I know what the HOA has authority over. the HOA was formed to collect dues and manage the runway.
 
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And then there is KOKH, private owned, pilots and renters do pretty much as they please.
 
I like that my airport allows non-aircraft storage...keeps the hangar rent low by keeping hangars full. My airport has a policy that if an aircraft needs a hangar, one of the non-aircraft hangars has to go in 90 days. I don’t know how they decides who goes but it seems to work well for airplanes.
 
tawood said:
I like that my airport allows non-aircraft storage...keeps the hangar rent low by keeping hangars full. My airport has a policy that if an aircraft needs a hangar, one of the non-aircraft hangars has to go in 90 days. I don’t know how they decides who goes but it seems to work well for airplanes.
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Good system. Around here, every hangar would have an airplane in it if that were the rule. Waiting list is 2 years long.
 
Eric Lehto said:
I guess I'm an outlier. I'm still on a waiting list for a hangar, none available here. I don't know how non aviation rentals happen here. Hangars are not cheap, by any stretch. Having said that, there's a hangar here with multiple Ferraris (older) in it. A much larger hangar than I could afford.
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Hangars may not be cheap to us pilots, but compared to some other comparable storage or other leased building space, they can be.

The 60x60 hangar I am currently in was previously being used by a ‘document destruction’ company. The hangar was chock full of pallets of paper waiting to be shredded. The rent was definitely cheaper than a comparable facility off airport.
 
Tom-D said:
You didn't read my post did you.
I own property there. I know what the HOA has authority over. the HOA was formed to collect dues and manage the runway.
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Tom- you must have written that post in an alternate universe. See below the posts you made in this thread up until my reply. Show me where you said that you owned the property at Diamond Point.

Just because you own property doesn't mean you read the covenants of the HOA.

Tom-D said:
When the hangar is being use for it's intended purpose then grant assurances are met.
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Tom-D said:
I was at an airport today where the hangars are condos each hangar is privately owned. the airport has grant assurances, and the FAA tried to enforce the grant assurances and was told to get lost, it was a private building and paid their rent on the property, they never heard another word from the airport managers or the FAA. The fire inspectors tried to inspect, and were told to get a search warrant, they never came back either.
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Tom-D said:
It is all in the way the land lease is written.

But better yet, Diamond point airport all property is privately owned, the runway is owned by the HOA, but the HOA has no authority over private property, just the runway and the club house.
Click to expand...
 
tawood said:
I like that my airport allows non-aircraft storage...keeps the hangar rent low by keeping hangars full. My airport has a policy that if an aircraft needs a hangar, one of the non-aircraft hangars has to go in 90 days. I don’t know how they decides who goes but it seems to work well for airplanes.
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That seems like a fair compromise.
 
Tom-D said:
It is all in the way the land lease is written.

But better yet, Diamond point airport all property is privately owned, the runway is owned by the HOA, but the HOA has no authority over private property, just the runway and the club house.
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And why the FAA is correctly ending funding for these type airports.
 
Clip4 said:
And why the FAA is correctly ending funding for these type airports.
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The FAA never spent a dime on privately owned airports. (how can you stop some thing that never started?)
 
At KPOU some politician is using 2 or more hangers to store all his landscaping and construction equipment.
Complain about it and the County Sheriff's people start pulling you over for "random" checks.
 
Tom-D said:
The FAA never spent a dime on privately owned airports. (how can you stop some thing that never started?)
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That is NOT true at all. There are tons of privately owned/public use airports that have taken FAA money.

Hampton Roads Exec (PVG) is a perfect example. It is privately owned (a single owner), but open to the public. Just finished a major runway expansion courtesy of the FAA a few years ago.
 
Stewartb said:
You guys worry way too much about other people’s affairs. If a guy has a lease on a building he should be able to do what he wants with it.
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Yeah, we can call it mixed use airports! :D Maybe NOTAM the runway closed for an ad-hoc tough mudder after a hard rain, and get the Ed Hardy wearing, mineral rights royalties crowd to keep the place "paid for", if you catch my drift. Personally I prefer when pregnant women don't use an active runway with their 3 kids in tow as a crosswalk while yelling boomer sooner, but hey, I think you're onto something here. :D



Shepherd said:
At KPOU some politician is using 2 or more hangers to store all his landscaping and construction equipment.
Complain about it and the County Sheriff's people start pulling you over for "random" checks.
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Indeed. Welfare for the top, "Freedom Fries" and batons to the head for everybody else below. Let's remind the gallery, that's how the Roman Republic descended into autocracy circa 133BC.....
 
There's an Apache in the hangar across from mine that probably hasn't flown since the 1980s. It's in there with the household goods, a couple of motorcycles, a couple of cars, etc. etc.

Meanwhile there's a waiting list for hangars, and I've been trying to get one with Southern exposure and a dry floor for three years. :: shrug ::
 
DaleB said:
There's an Apache in the hangar across from mine that probably hasn't flown since the 1980s. It's in there with the household goods, a couple of motorcycles, a couple of cars, etc. etc.

Meanwhile there's a waiting list for hangars, and I've been trying to get one with Southern exposure and a dry floor for three years. :: shrug ::
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that's how we get barn finds.
 
Tom-D said:
The FAA never spent a dime on privately owned airports. (how can you stop some thing that never started?)
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More wrong information. See the link below, the FAA does give grants to "private owners and entities". The airports are public use, even if they are privately owned.
https://www.faa.gov/airports/aip/
 
Stewartb said:
You guys worry way too much about other people’s affairs. If a guy has a lease on a building he should be able to do what he wants with it.
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I guess I just want FAA grant money spent for aviation purposes and for airport hangers to be available to people who actually fly their planes instead of federally subsidized airport storage competing against the local storage businesses.
 
I don’t know what the federal money grant conditions are in your area but they don’t pay for hangars in mine. Land leases are with state or city governments. The feds have no say. My general attitude is that the government has no business dictating what people put in buildings. Government needs to stay the heck out of my life. Meanwhile, I’ve got work to do in my hangar on a private airport. I wanted a hangar and seized the opportunity to buy one. No G men anywhere to be seen. It’s still a free country, sort of. You can do the same.

Wait.... you guys are advocating that it isn’t a free country....
 
Maybe just mind your business :dunno:

I got 99 problems, but what’s going on in another mans hangar/house/whatever ain’t one.
 
Stewartb said:
You guys worry way too much about other people’s affairs. If a guy has a lease on a building he should be able to do what he wants with it.
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EXCEPT,, when the airport has grant assurances, they promised the FAA that that the money they got will be used for aviation purposes. That doesn't mean the airport can build storage units for civil population. the hangars they build must have an aviation activity in them.
 
Stewartb said:
I don’t know what the federal money grant conditions are in your area but they don’t pay for hangars in mine. Land leases are with state or city governments. The feds have no say. My general attitude is that the government has no business dictating what people put in buildings. Government needs to stay the heck out of my life. Meanwhile, I’ve got work to do in my hangar on a private airport. I wanted a hangar and seized the opportunity to buy one. No G men anywhere to be seen. It’s still a free country, sort of. You can do the same.

Wait.... you guys are advocating that it isn’t a free country....
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When your airport was once upon a time a federal property, and was given to your community, for aviation purposes, there are grant assurances attached. yeah even way back when.
 
Tom, you talk in circles so fast I get dizzy reading your posts. No Fed money on the runway I live on. No worries. No coincidence. :)
 
At BVS, the government grant was a huge piece of land, the port commissioners asked the FAA if they could divide the property in to an airport and an industrial park to make better use of the grant.
It took a very long time and a huge pile of paper work to get it done.
 
Stewartb said:
Tom, you talk in circles so fast I get dizzy reading your posts. No Fed money on the runway I live on. No worries. No coincidence. :)
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you are the fortunate one. never allow the airport to be obligated to the feds.

obtw who owns your airport?
 
Tom-D said:
you are the fortunate one. never allow the airport to be obligated to the feds.

obtw who owns your airport?
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Depends on the state, choosing the lesser of evils and all
 
dans2992 said:
Good system. Around here, every hangar would have an airplane in it if that were the rule. Waiting list is 2 years long.
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At KLUK (Cincinnati Municipal Lunken Field) the waiting list is approximately forever. If they built twenty new T hangars they'd be filled and the waiting list wouldn't be covered.
 
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