Hand held level?

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5QK

Pre-takeoff checklist
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5QK
I'm looking to get a student friend of mine one of those things that you look through to see if you're going to clear potential obstacles 10 of so miles away.
Cant remember what they are called though.
Any help?
 
I have one, but I don't remember what it's called. It just says "David White" on it.

By the way, I've noticed that it's no good at estimating cloud height in the desert; the visibility is so good out there that the curvature of the Earth comes into play, causing very distant clouds to look lower than they really are!
 
What's wrong with Garmin touch screen glass in the panel, with synthetic vision and multi-color terrain avoidance and route profile displays? :rolleyes:
 
5QK said:
I'm looking to get a student friend of mine one of those things that you look through to see if you're going to clear potential obstacles 10 of so miles away.
Cant remember what they are called though.
Any help?
Click to expand...

Bug on Windscreen
 
By the way, here's a tip I learned in a mountain flying course: When you are maintaining a constant altitude while approaching a ridge, if more and more terrain is appearing beyond the ridge as you approach it, then you are above the elevation of the ridge. If less and less terrain is visible as you approach it, then you are below the elevation of the ridge.
 
Palmpilot said:
By the way, here's a tip I learned in a mountain flying course: When you are maintaining a constant altitude while approaching a ridge, if more and more terrain is appearing beyond the ridge as you approach it, then you are above the elevation of the ridge. If less and less terrain is visible as you approach it, then you are below the elevation of the ridge.
Click to expand...

That’s a good one, never heard it before. Good tip
 
Palmpilot said:
By the way, here's a tip I learned in a mountain flying course: When you are maintaining a constant altitude while approaching a ridge, if more and more terrain is appearing beyond the ridge as you approach it, then you are above the elevation of the ridge. If less and less terrain is visible as you approach it, then you are below the elevation of the ridge.
Click to expand...

Or, if the the terrain on both sides remains constant you are descending on a steady slope directly toward the summit. ;)
 
If it’s rising up the windscreen and about the middle, you won’t clear it. If it’s falling you will.

No real need for the gadget. If you’re not IFR you need proper cloud clearances anyway, and it won’t measure that.
 
It's more for him getting over little hills. Towers etc. His instructor says he thinks he needs to clear everything by 4 or 5 thousand feet. I just thought one of these might help.
I know time and hours will definitely help.
 
5QK said:
It's more for him getting over little hills. Towers etc. His instructor says he thinks he needs to clear everything by 4 or 5 thousand feet. I just thought one of these might help.
I know time and hours will definitely help.
Click to expand...

This is very confusing to me. A gadget like that is absolutely not a substitute for proper flight planning, and keeping your eyes outside.

That’s what this is about, correct? Whether it’s a local or XC flight the emphasis should be on a plan. What route and what altitudes are needed to clear terrain and obstacles. Rather than a gadget it would probably be more helpful to pull out a sectional and have your friend plan a flight or two, especially if they have not gotten to that portion of training yet. I’m also assuming that you are in the lowlands somewhere. For a fun exercise have your friend plan Denver to Salt Lake. That 4-5k above terrain suggestion will go right out the window. Can't realistically get into Salt Lake from the east without dancing with the mountains.
 
woodchucker said:
This is very confusing to me. A gadget like that is absolutely not a substitute for proper flight planning, and keeping your eyes outside.

That’s what this is about, correct? Whether it’s a local or XC flight the emphasis should be on a plan. What route and what altitudes are needed to clear terrain and obstacles. Rather than a gadget it would probably be more helpful to pull out a sectional and have your friend plan a flight or two, especially if they have not gotten to that portion of training yet. I’m also assuming that you are in the lowlands somewhere. For a fun exercise have your friend plan Denver to Salt Lake. That 4-5k above terrain suggestion will go right out the window. Can't realistically get into Salt Lake from the east without dancing with the mountains.
Click to expand...
I think you could do that route, VFR, and maintain the 4-5K clearance from the granite. You'll need oxygen, of course.
 
5QK said:
I'm looking to get a student friend of mine one of those things that you look through to see if you're going to clear potential obstacles 10 of so miles away.
Cant remember what they are called though.
Any help?
Click to expand...

Perhaps his CFI - if he’s savvy and is an old-schooler - will show him how it used to be done. It’s obscure, but pilots who know where to look can find charts that have pictures - a map, if you will - of the surrounding area, including the height of mountains, towers and other obstacles. If his plane has an instrument that can tell him how high they are, they have a pretty good way to avoid hitting a mountain.
 
5QK said:
It's more for him getting over little hills. Towers etc. His instructor says he thinks he needs to clear everything by 4 or 5 thousand feet. I just thought one of these might help.
I know time and hours will definitely help.
Click to expand...

If you’re not clearing “little hills” or towers by something significantly better than a sight level will show you, or you need the sight level, you’ve seriously screwed up your flight planning somewhere.

You usually can’t even see an unlit tower in time to out-climb it, if you’re on a collision course for one.
 
Palmpilot said:
By the way, here's a tip I learned in a mountain flying course: When you are maintaining a constant altitude while approaching a ridge, if more and more terrain is appearing beyond the ridge as you approach it, then you are above the elevation of the ridge. If less and less terrain is visible as you approach it, then you are below the elevation of the ridge.
Click to expand...

That's how I was taught - no gadget needed, eyeballs only.
 
Prior to this thread, I think I hadn't had my sight level out of my flight bag in years! It's something that seemed useful when I saw it in the pilot shop, but in reality that turned out not to be the case.
 
If it's going up in the windshield, it's going above you. If down, below you. If staying stationary, and BTW, getting bigger... You're gonna hit it.

This works even at angles to the plane.


Now, which way to turn to avoid?
 
Kenny Phillips said:
I think you could do that route, VFR, and maintain the 4-5K clearance from the granite. You'll need oxygen, of course.
Click to expand...

Yep, I was ignoring that little tidbit. That was the extra credit portion for the student pilot.
 
Palmpilot said:
I'm impressed that the app has user-selectable correction for the curvature of the Earth, but I find myself wondering how it knows your horizontal distance from the cloud.
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Reading the app description you need to manually enter the distance to the cloud.
 
ateamer said:
Perhaps his CFI - if he’s savvy and is an old-schooler - will show him how it used to be done. It’s obscure, but pilots who know where to look can find charts that have pictures - a map, if you will - of the surrounding area, including the height of mountains, towers and other obstacles. If his plane has an instrument that can tell him how high they are, they have a pretty good way to avoid hitting a mountain.
Click to expand...

Yeah but gizmos and gadgets are so much cooler. ;)
 
asicer said:
#7 refers to cloud tops. Also, it just says whether you'll clear them. How will you know if you are 1000' above? I suppose it could apply to terrain as well, but how will you know if you are safe with FAR 91.119?
Click to expand...

You would have to know and enter the distance to the cloud, and the app handles the trig to give you the approximate distance above or below the cloud top you are. Problem is the input is miles where we probably want nm. Too much fiddling for the flying that I do.
 
Why not just use the horizon...the actual horizon.
 
woodchucker said:
You would have to know and enter the distance to the cloud, and the app handles the trig to give you the approximate distance above or below the cloud top you are. Problem is the input is miles where we probably want nm. Too much fiddling for the flying that I do.
Click to expand...
The difference between a nautical mile and a statute mile is about 15%. If you can estimate your distance from a cloud that accurately, I'll be impressed!
 
Palmpilot said:
The difference between a nautical mile and a statute mile is about 15%. If you can estimate your distance from a cloud that accurately, I'll be impressed!
Click to expand...

I get that, but it’s amateur hour to not do it right, that’s all. They have a tree top height finder also if you are ever wondering if you will clear the trees at the end of the runway :D
 
It's just for reference so he can learn what to look for. I'll pass these tips on.
Thanks
 
5QK said:
It's just for reference so he can learn what to look for. I'll pass these tips on.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Yep, make sure you tell him real pilots ridiculed the suggestion.

:rolleyes:
 
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