Had to turn down a student seeking flight instruction

sarangan

sarangan

Pattern Altitude
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Jun 7, 2008
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Display name:
Andrew, CFI-I
I have rarely turned down a student seeking flight instruction, but today I did. The student said he is a medical worker at a hospital in the infectious diseases division, and considers him to in the high risk group, even though he doesn't have any symptoms. He kindly offered that he would not fault me for declining. I am not sure what others think, but I had to think of my family first, because flight instruction is just a side business for me, and I would hate to risk my family 's health over this. It was definitely a sad decision.
 
I imagine that was very hard, but probably the right decision. I am glad I did not have to make it. Definitely keep in contact and maybe he can do the ground work in his spare time.
 
You are not at fault for declining. You are correct. In fact, it’s his responsibility to know the rules and not pit anyone at risk.


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OkieAviator said:
He’s not busy right now but he’s out looking to learn to fly? That’s strange....
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It is possible he is a lot busier now and earning more money, and airplanes and instructors are sitting idle.
 
Yeah, not much social distancing you can do in a cockpit!
 
Employer started taking temperatures of employees everyday. I am about to end all my training until this passes.
 
This makes it difficult to understand why everybody has to suffer with job losses and business closures in order to keep social distances, while an infectious diseases healthcare worker thinks spending an hour in a closed compartment space, 6" away from you is acceptable. Do you think it was a prank?
 
Every spring and fall I fly survey flights with 2 observers in a 172. The flights are every morning and my observers are all retired folks. Today I informed my boss I won’t fly them anyone. Tough call to make but it didn’t seem worth it putting everyone at risk. :(


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lsaway said:
This makes it difficult to understand why everybody has to suffer with job losses and business closures in order to keep social distances, while an infectious diseases healthcare worker thinks spending an hour in a closed compartment space, 6" away from you is acceptable. Do you think it was a prank?
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Give him a break. It’s just about the context of different peoples’ lives. I’m 38 times more likely to die on my job than the average US worker, get stitched up a few times a year, and break a bone about once every 18 months...so in context for me, Covid is nbd. For someone who lives a relatively secure life and needs to worry about exposure to family or neighbors, the context is different. Good on @sarangan for doing what he thought was right, and for the health worker for being up front.

Maybe he just wanted some air time to de stress. If any ER or ICU worker in south Texas needs to fly and get away from the current insanity at the hospital, they’re welcome to use my plane for free. I’ll cover the fuel, too.
 
Tantalum said:
Yeah, not much social distancing you can do in a cockpit!
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Good point. Many of the flight schools and FBO's with rentals for training in Silicon Valley area are closed to all rentals except special cases like mercy missions.
 
GrummanBear said:
Give him a break. It’s just about the context of different peoples’ lives. I’m 38 times more likely to die on my job than the average US worker, get stitched up a few times a year, and break a bone about once every 18 months...so in context for me, Covid is nbd. For someone who lives a relatively secure life and needs to worry about exposure to family or neighbors, the context is different. Good on @sarangan for doing what he thought was right, and for the health worker for being up front.
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What do you do for living, Hollywood stuntman? :7)

Not to minimize the crisis, we should remember 0.0000303 percent of the US population is infected with the virus as of today.
 
GrummanBear said:
Give him a break..............Maybe he just wanted some air time to de stress. If any ER or ICU worker in south Texas needs to fly and get away from the current insanity at the hospital, they’re welcome to use my plane for free. I’ll cover the fuel, too.
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I practice the "lead by example" approach and not "do as I say, not as I do". There are a lot of us that don't understand why this is such a crisis. We are looking to the medical profession for answers. I think it is reasonable to expect medical workers to follow the same guidelines they are imposing on the rest of us, and to set the example.
 
I'm an IR student and I am canceling my lesson flights until this passes. Will continue to fly solo for fun/practice ... until the FAA shuts down all air travel.
 
I haven’t left my house in days, and you’re feeling bad about not wanting to sit in a cockpit with an infectious disease worker? Why are we even having this conversation - people need to be shutting things down until the spread is under control. If you think it’s a hoax or not that big of a deal, just flip through the google images results of “northern Italy corona virus” and you’ll be hunkered down at home like me. I already know multiple people with COVID - two confirmed, three more suspected, one who was severe. Get smart.
 
AA5Bman said:
I haven’t left my house in days, and you’re feeling bad about not wanting to sit in a cockpit with an infectious disease worker? Why are we even having this conversation - people need to be shutting things down until the spread is under control. If you think it’s a hoax or not that big of a deal, just flip through the google images results of “northern Italy corona virus” and you’ll be hunkered down at home like me. I already know multiple people with COVID - two confirmed, three more suspected, one who was severe. Get smart.
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On average there are 2000 deaths from natural causes in Italy daily and most of these are due to some kind of virus or similar cause that normally would not have been a problem for a younger person.
We are seeing about 500 deaths daily over there due to the new virus , 90%+ of which are from the very same pool of 2000 people with significant comorbidity to begin with - not exactly the new Black Death.

I just don’t see any data or numbers that would justify the ongoing economic and social suicide we are engaging in...
 
DaleB said:
Gotta feed all those 24 hour “news” channels somehow.
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Yeah and how can you believe our officials when it is clear they don’t take their own announcements seriously ...
Here you got a bunch of LA officials ordering people to shelter at home, practice social distancing and basically stay away from everyone else as much as possible :

FBBE0F4D-F8A9-40B8-A4DC-61495228ACE2.jpeg
 
Warmi said:
On average there are 2000 deaths from natural causes in Italy daily and most of these are due to some kind of virus or similar cause that normally would not have been a problem for a younger person.
We are seeing about 500 deaths daily over there due to the new virus , 90%+ of which are from the very same pool of 2000 people with significant comorbidity to begin with - not exactly the new Black Death.

I just don’t see any data or numbers that would justify the ongoing economic and social suicide we are engaging in...
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This is really about the Boomers. Look at who is making all of this happen. There I said it. The under 50 crowd aren’t at much risk but are paying the price economically
 
lsaway said:
I practice the "lead by example" approach...We are looking to the medical profession for answers. I think it is reasonable to expect medical workers to follow the same guidelines they are imposing on the rest of us, and to set the example.
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Just keep in mind that they are leading...with a different example. My wife and her trauma team are the opposite of distanced, have been exposed to HIV, TB, Covid, etc., and are often covered in p***, s***, and blood. Their example is to put themselves out there, elbows deep, for others, based on the needs of anyone BUT themselves. If you don’t want to fly with them, no worries, just thank them for their service and consider showing them some gratitude by having meals sent via carry out service to their place of work; it is often needed and always appreciated.

@NordicDave logger and contract climber
 
AA5Bman said:
I haven’t left my house in days...
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We’re on Day 2 of “sheltering in place”. As pilots, we should be familiar with the concept of Most Conservative Action, and I think this fits the bill. Without widespread testing, there’s simply no way to know how prevalent the virus is in your area, so best to avoid as much contact as possible. We’re fortunate that, being retired, it’s not a huge hardship in general. But it’s especially hard on Karen, who wants to be close to her family here, but her daughter-in-law works at a daycare (for now) and she the grandkids are almost perfect vectors for the virus.

If you think it’s a hoax or not that big of a deal, just flip through the google images results of “northern Italy corona virus” and you’ll be hunkered down at home like me.
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The New York Times has a daily podcast called, appropriately, “The Daily”. Several days ago they had an extended interview with a Doctor in Italy. I won’t detail it here, but it was both chilling and heartbreaking at the same time. New York City and it’s surrounds are maybe 2 weeks or so of being a mirror image of that. That’s not sensationalizing, it’s nearly a mathematical certainty.

To be clear, I’m not “panicking” - I’m quite calm and resigned to the whole fiasco. Just trying to act in a rational manner after processing the best available information.
 
sarangan said:
I am not sure what others think, but I had to think of my family first, because flight instruction is just a side business for me, and I would hate to risk my family 's health over this. It was definitely a sad decision.
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Not for nothing but if flight instruction was just a side business, I wouldn't be getting into a plane with ANYONE right now regardless of their level of risk exposure.
 
Tantalum said:
Yeah, not much social distancing you can do in a cockpit!
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Uh, that’s not social distancing. Social distancing is limiting the number of people you come in contact with. Maybe you don’t speak to a large group of people, but not doing training with one person to “socially distance” yourself? As I’ve said before, if it’s that stupid, this culture Deserves to go extinct.
 
FastEddieB said:
We’re on Day 2 of “sheltering in place”. As pilots, we should be familiar with the concept of Most Conservative Action, and I think this fits the bill. Without widespread testing, there’s simply no way to know how prevalent the virus is in your area, so best to avoid as much contact as possible. We’re fortunate that, being retired, it’s not a huge hardship in general. But it’s especially hard on Karen, who wants to be close to her family here, but her daughter-in-law works at a daycare (for now) and she the grandkids are almost perfect vectors for the virus.



The New York Times has a daily podcast called, appropriately, “The Daily”. Several days ago they had an extended interview with a Doctor in Italy. I won’t detail it here, but it was both chilling and heartbreaking at the same time. New York City and it’s surrounds are maybe 2 weeks or so of being a mirror image of that. That’s not sensationalizing, it’s nearly a mathematical certainty.

To be clear, I’m not “panicking” - I’m quite calm and resigned to the whole fiasco. Just trying to act in a rational manner after processing the best available information.
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A New Your Times podcast is nowhere near close to evidence - it is actually opposite of that.

Here is some excerpts from an article about H1N1 virus:

H1N1 swine flu has killed as many as 17,000 Americans, including 1,800 children, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported on Friday.
“CDC estimates that between 41 million and 84 million cases of 2009 H1N1 occurred between April 2009 and January 16, 2010,” the agency said in a statement. Usually the CDC goes with a middle number, which it puts at about 57 million people infected.
Between 8,330 and 17,160 people died during that time from H1N1, with a middle range of about 12,000, the CDC said. But between 880 and 1,800 children died, up to 13,000 adults under the age of 65 and only 1,000 to 2,000 elderly.

That's just in this country. I am sure if you were to interview a doctor or somebody taking care of these people, it would be just as chilling and heartbreaking. It is easy to sensationalize suffering and there is always plenty of that around , we just don't pay attention to it.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-to-17000-in-u-s-report-idUSN1223579720100212
 
eman1200 said:
meh, doesn’t sound like a tough decision at all. ‘Not taking any new students until this mess calms down’. ‘nuff said.
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Even though one's 'old' students are just as likely to be infected.
 
Warmi said:
On average there are 2000 deaths from natural causes in Italy daily and most of these are due to some kind of virus or similar cause that normally would not have been a problem for a younger person.
We are seeing about 500 deaths daily over there due to the new virus , 90%+ of which are from the very same pool of 2000 people with significant comorbidity to begin with - not exactly the new Black Death.

I just don’t see any data or numbers that would justify the ongoing economic and social suicide we are engaging in...
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Are those 500 daily deaths spread out over the entire country? Or are they concentrated within a certain region? I could see where 500 across the nation isn't a big deal but 500 in a single hospital would be.
 
asicer said:
Are those 500 daily deaths spread out over the entire country? Or are they concentrated within a certain region? I could see where 500 across the nation isn't a big deal but 500 in a single hospital would be.
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That’s the total deaths across Italy attributed to this virus.
 
Warmi said:
That’s the total deaths across Italy attributed to this virus.
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That's not my question. Italy is reporting 500 deaths daily, but is that 499 in one city and 1 on the opposite side of the country? Or is it an even distribution?
 
asicer said:
That's not my question. Italy is reporting 500 deaths daily, but is that 499 in one city and 1 on the opposite side of the country? Or is it an even distribution?
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Northern Italy seem to be most affected and as one would expect it seems to correlate with population density.
 

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Warmi said:
Northern Italy seem to be most affected and as one would expect it seems to correlate with population density.
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Very interesting. I suppose the next piece of data to examine would be the total combined amount of daily deaths in Italy this week compared to previous weeks.
 
Never feel bad about making a decision that is in your best interest. This guy should actually be more aware. Unless he knows this is the end of time, and flying is on his bucket list.
 
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